The Last Reformation Hospital Miracle
 

Re: The Last Reformation Hospital Miracle
 

Hi! I wanted to post about "the last reformation" movement and ask ,how you see it?
I see the conversions videos of them with people fallows the real plan of salvation (baptized in Jesus name and receive the Holy Ghost) and i think is a real movement. What is your opinion?

Re: The Last Reformation Hospital Miracle
 

I think its brought simplicity back to the gospel and empowerment to the believer.

People are healed, set free, filled and baptised in Jesus name.

I think their methods work anywhere and do not rely on a place, setting or atmosphere.

Because of what I have seen them do, I have realized thatI can do the same in a uncomplicated fashion that does not take hours and hours to do.

It has also clued me in to realizing that thereare demonic manifestations in the church that disguise themselves as true manifestations of the Spirit that are not.

I believe that some of the church has had their discernment dulled and allow these to go on instead of addressing them.

In some of the videosof people being delivered I was like,"OMG Ive seen this before!"

Its help reinforce within me those feelings where I felt some things were not right but I brushed them off because no one else seemed to notice.

Re: The Last Reformation Hospital Miracle
 

Yes i like the simplicity of the gospel! We people make it complicate!
Do you think he is against denominations like "get out of the church" or what?

Re: The Last Reformation Hospital Miracle
 

No, you have to understand what is meant by "church " where he lives in Denmark. He is against lifeless institutions that call themselves church that are common in his country particularly the Lutheran church.

He ministers in many churches and many churches host him for kickstarting seminars.

He is there to make the believer aware of their empowerment and many times he will take people who just received the Holy Ghost and have them pray for others who need healing or deliverance. He walks them through simple steps and then gets them doing it themselves.

Hes not against "church" and he isnt trying to lure people into leaving.

The have been those that have left their church because once they began to behave as real Christians they were not accepted by their congregations so they found other like minded believers to fellowship with.

This is not a teaching that everyone will tolerate and allow.

When you begin to teach that this is what the church is supposed to do and its how the church should behave it starts to mess with alot of tradition and make people uncomfortable.

People are NOT being discipled in some places.

Their reasoning is,"Well I cant let them pray for that person to be delivered or be healed because they have never done that before."

In the real church, praying for the sick and casting out devils or praying for someone to receive the HolyGhost should be entry level skills that you are instantly qualified to do once you receive the HolyGhost but the way its treated is that its some sort of complicated master level skill set and this ministry tears that thought pattern down around its ears.

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Ι think God is preparing his armies for the last days!
We are living in a difficult time of church history and we have to go all the way out of the religion system of this world.
I like the way those people go out and live the gospel! I did not found any of them in my country yet. I gound 2-3 "missioners" whos name was on the Last Ref. list but they was just trinitarinas who prayed with other people in the name of unity!?

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Well sounds like since you know Truth and you're aware of the need...maybe you will be that person that steps up to do it right. :-) God is calling YOU my friend!

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I cry to see the REAL church of Jesus coming out of the religion.
I know satan imitate God`s moves and bring his own false unity. But i think that the real Unity of the church is coming .
Most of people we are comfortable with some truths only but you know there is more...

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The Church has His Word...they will read and hear it and understand and make the right choice...or they will not.

Meanwhile there is a lost and dying world that do not care about our politics or hair thin nuances of doctrine or our divisions...they are broken, bleeding and wounded...bound by chains we hold the keys to unlock.

Im more concerned busying myself in the harvest and the Work of God than to argue and try to convince church people that ita a good idea to obey His Word as it is written and not using tradition as a primary authority.

Re: The Last Reformation Hospital Miracle
 

yes

truth

amen

Re: The Last Reformation Hospital Miracle
 

Can you elaborate?

Re: The Last Reformation Hospital Miracle
 

what?

Re: The Last Reformation Hospital Miracle
 

loud disruptive false to tongues that manifest to sidetrack or drown out what is going on. Its not that it drives God away....its just that Ive seen people submit to and accept these manifestations that are very out of order.

Im not saying its in every church but I have seen it in some churches Ive attended.

Re: The Last Reformation Hospital Miracle
 

Considering 1 Corinthians chapters 12-14 and Paul's correction of abuses regarding speaking in tongues, don't you think it odd that he never said "some of this stuff going on is demonic"? Rather, people simply weren't operating properly "as a team", causing disorder. The solution wasn't casting out demons, but proper teaching.

Thoughts?

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As a follow up... how come none of the apostles had to teach about demons manifesting in church masquerading as the Spirit EXCEPT in the case of TEACHERS teaching false doctrines?

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[QUOTE=Esaias;1511677]As a follow up... how come none of the apostles had to teach about demons manifesting in church masquerading as the Spirit EXCEPT in the case of TEACHERS teaching false doctrines?[/QUOTE

We are not the original church of the Apostles...I believe there were some things that were just understood by the original church.

We resemble the first church somewhat but we have many roots in denominal doctrines and traditions.

Yes we need more teaching and it is the lack of Biblical teaching that has allowed the enemy to sneak in and try to blend.

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[QUOTE=jediwill83;1511680]I'm not understanding you. Are you saying you believe X, and the original church knew, understood, and believed X, but there's no record of X?

Don't you believe the Bible is supernaturally designed to be all we need for instruction and understanding? That if it ain't taught in scripture we can't really claim it as doctrine? That way we don't just proclaim our personal opinions as Gospel Truth?

Help me out here,please clarify.

Re: The Last Reformation Hospital Miracle
 

His NAME is Jesus!

[QUOTE=Esaias;1511681]That's how I lean, Beloved. I don't have witness to agree with whatever is
happening: especially since I believe that we don't need a reformation, as
much as we need a restoration!

"And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while
I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the
law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me."

Now we also have the very words of Jesus, and of his apostles and prophets:
and the gospel that we preach, along with the doctrine that we teach must
necessarily harmonize with those "...holy men of God spake as they were
moved by the Holy Ghost."

Brother Villa

Re: The Last Reformation Hospital Miracle
 

[QUOTE=Esaias;1511681]
No, Im not claiming to know things that the Bible does not teach or that we need to refer to extrabiblical sources for understanding of the spiritual...lets get that straight right now.

What Im saying is that I believe some things that happen in church, had Paul seen them, he would be confronting them like the fortune teller following after them proclaiming that "These men show us the way to salvation"

Im not talking out my hat here. This isnt something that I alone have seen. My pastor was in a service somewhere between the north and south pole and he walked into a situation like that where something manifested and the people, even the pastor of that church and elders just pretended that everything was cool either out of ignorance or fear.

Basically a guy stood up flexing and bowed up acting like the Hulk.....staring, growling, knocking over pews *with eyes open and glaring * and proceeded to get into a fight with another church member.


Let me ask you this Esaias, do you not believe that the enemy has people stting on our pews hiding in plain sight?

Do you not think its a possibility that they are able to do so because of some things we have let creep in and accept?

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[QUOTE=thephnxman;1511682]His NAME is Jesus!

Brother, whether you call it a reformation or restoration, Im not looking for some sort of new doctrine just pulled from Lord knows where. Im talking about getting rid of tradition and sacred cows that makes the Word of God to no effect as Jesus said.

I dont use anyones "bestseller " to formulate my belief system other than the Bible. Im not being arrogant but its the only Truth I can trust.

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Some of TLR's staff came to Phoenix about a year ago. I attended one of their "Kickstart" sessions, met and spoke with Peter Ahlman, TLR Sweden's leader, and several who came with him from Sweden, China and other areas.

I have not met or heard Torbin speak in person, but I have watched the entire Pioneer
School series. It appears there may be some differences between Torbin and Peter.

From what I remember, Torbin believes in the oneness of God. Peter is Trinitarian. Both believe in the new birth experience of Acts 2:38 - repentance, baptism and receiving the HG.

During the "Kickstart" session I attended, someone asked if a person should be re-baptized if they either had only been baptized as a child in the Catholic church or had been baptized in a church which did not believe the necessity of the new birth experience. One of the men with Peter was conducting this Q&A and stated they did not believe in re-baptism.

We went in groups out to various nearby stores and malls. A couple groups were told to leave the malls. I was paired with the leader for TLR in AZ. Unfortunately, he didn't have much success at getting anyone to stop or pray for anyone.

I did witness Peter praying for a girl who had a leg short than the other. I'm cautious about saying outright that it was fake, but there seemed to be some manipulation in the way the girl sat and how it was presented. I also know that these type of healings are very popular with faith healers and have a history of being faked.

A young man I know from an apostolic church here got very involved with TLR. His job moved him to KC, where he joined up with IHOP. He's a mess now. He follows Todd White and hangs on every word White says. He visits "healing rooms" (associated with John Lake) and has told me of his friends who have healed people by blowing in their ear or even spitting on people.

Re: The Last Reformation Hospital Miracle
 

In my country too when i spoke with some Canadians here for mission i realize they was just in the L.F web list but nothing to do with the doctrine. They only spoke to me again when they wanted some money to travel back home. After i saw them being involved in a Hillsong church.
I think is difficult for them to know the exact doctrine of every member.

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There are healing rooms that claim connection witb John Lake but arent legit. The only legit ones connected with Lakes ministry will be JGLM and Ive never heard Curry mention any kind of nonsense like spitting on people and blowing in peoples ear. Im not refuting your statement...just saying that I know they deal with people who claim to be a part of something they arent.

Everything Ive seen of Todd White is a complete NOPE.

Didnt know that Peter was a trinitarian but Torbin is very clear about being baptised into Jesus.

I havent went to malls or anything to specifically pray for people, I have prayed for people that have mentioned being ill or having pain in public. I can see where some people would be weirded out though. I think that wisdom needs to be used in how you present yourself.

Being connected with JGLM has given me opportunities to prayfor people all over Louisiana since Im the only one they have in Louisiana. The guy I went to pray for in south Louisiana is now attending a Pentecostal church! I was so glad for him because he was wanting a needing a good church.

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Ive reached out to Last Reformation people in Louisiana and they are across the spectrum as far as their doctrines go. Havent really got into detail with it with them. Not trying to join another church though...trying tobe involved with groups that will put me in contact people that needs prayer.

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Sounds good! God will bless it!

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Sorry I wasn't more clear with this part: "He visits "healing rooms" (associated with John Lake) and has told me of his friends who have healed people by blowing in their ear or even spitting on people."

My friend visits healing rooms. He also has told me of his friends who have healed people by blowing in their ear or even spitting on people. I don't know that the two are connected.

Agreed.

•We believe in the trinity, that God is one through three persons. The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit.

http://www.tlrswe.com/about/

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Well, Paul did write about "no one speaking by the Spirit calls Jesus accursed", so there may have been some activity whereby some were claiming to prophesy in which they were cursing Jesus in some manner or form, and claiming it was by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

Maybe some false brethren had infiltrated Corinth, since the church there began as a synagogue?

All speculation, of course...

Re: The Last Reformation Hospital Miracle
 

His NAME is Jesus!

[QUOTE=jediwill83;1511705]There's a difference between reformation and restoration: for example:
I heard a praise song in Spanish for the very first time: later, I encountered
three similar renditions of the same song, with different words. Well, I liked
the first one best and decided to interpret it into English. Not bragging, but I
am gifted that way. Anyway, I thought I did a very good job in the translation:
and it was, I believe, a better rendition in English than the two other versions
were in Spanish! I was feeling pretty good about myself...until I discovered the
ORIGINAL song in English! And, let me tell you, it was a whole world better
than my Spanish interpretation.

But you see, I was only REFORMING the Spanish versions, which was OK for
the moment, until the original version was RESTORED to me!

Beloved there are TRUE believers all across the apostolic spectrum; and there
are very sincere believers within those professing christianity THAT NEED TO
HEAR the gospel that saves. Surely you can help them.

Brother Villa

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[QUOTE=jediwill83;1511703]You had said you were talking about speaking in tongues in what you felt was a disorderly manner. You didn't say anything about acting violently possessed or going stupid.

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[QUOTE=Esaias;1511738]
Do you believe in false tongues?

Re: The Last Reformation Hospital Miracle
 

yep..thats Peter in Sweden. Torben baptises differently

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Wrote a massive post then deleted it.

Question: Do you believe that demonic behaviour can be on display at a church and people be ignorant to it because they have been conditioned to accepting that behavior as a work of the Spirit?

Keep in mind that the church I was raised at...people would go nuts shouting and knocking over pews violently..it was a regular thing

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Well the question is then....where the people healed? If they got healed they were probably praising YAH!

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OR OR I could combine spitting with blowing in the ear and give em wet willies! BE HEALED! *SQUISH*

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Jesus did some "strange things" as part of ministering healing to people. Just saying.

As for demon possessed people in the church, I'd say such persons usually appear quite demoniac (acting like Hulk and threatening everyone??) or else they are appear quite refined, with suit and tie, and usually are up on the platform, teaching lies and false doctrine.

Again, just saying.

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I think it was likely certain Jews trying to teach that Jesus was not the Messiah but was "cursed of God" (just as Judaism teaches today), and Paul had to reaffirm hat the Spirit of God does NOT inspire someone to call Jesus accursed (in the sense that He is rejected by God).

Either that or there was, even at that early date, a teaching going around similar to the Kenneth Copeland/Word of Faith heresy that Jesus went to hell and literally became sin itself, but I'm not so sure that would be the case.

But in either case, Paul never mentioned the need for exorcisms in a meeting of the ekklesia due to people "getting out of hand". Every case of exorcism in Scripture involves people who are clearly not Christians.

If you are filled with the Holy Ghost you aren't going to be "manifesting demons". That is simply NOT Bible.

Of course, I suspect not all who claim to be spirit filled are filled with the Holy Spirit.

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What is a move of God?

We might be quick to discount something outside our own circles as a move of God. To me it depends on where one starts. If one was born a Catholic for instance and accepts Christ among the Baptists, that was a move of God. The person moved closer to God. They now believe a person can be saved by faith, not just by obedience to the Catholic Faith. See how simple? God was moving in the persons life guiding them closer to truth and or himself.

Example. The Jesus movement of which I was a part. It started as some hippies and some Church people began to desire to know God or more of him. It lasted about 10 years. Many of its adherents came to Jesus through this movement.

We majored in lifting up Jesus. Many received the Holy Ghost. What set us apart as a movement of its own was things like street witnessing. Going to the lost where they were. Fellowship with each other rather through Church in the homes. New forms of music.

For those in it God was really moving! To someone who had more truth than we had it may not have seemed to be of God. But people were brought from many various sins to believe in and turn to Jesus and live for him.

But if we dont keep moving.....God will eventually move on and leave us behind.

I think of one of the mightiest groups of the time. They were actually baptizing in Jesus name and leading people to the Holy Spirit baptism. Great things were happening.

Then they decided to forgo water baptism. It was to cumbersome for them. Well when they quit MOVING with God it was not long before terrible sin entered in from the leader and filtered through the group and in short order they were teaching as Jezebel that fornication is ok.

While most of the groups never fell that far nonetheless most of them became satisfied with what they had and quit moving...going forward. So after a few years of the glory of God most joined up with Evangelical Churches and as a distinct movement it ceased to exist.

The problem? They stopped short of where God was leading them. The "movement" stopped.

Since IHOP was mentioned in this thread I will comment on them. The Pastor of IHOP had come to Jesus in the Jesus movement. His zeal was for night and day prayer. A few people joined with him and International House Of Prayer was born.

Early on they seemed really hard hitting, visiting themes like the coming judgment of the nations and post tribulation rapture. That together with some of the most glorious music I ever heard created a love for them in my heart.

Now dont get me wrong I have never been to IHOP or any of its branches but I have seen enough over the years to see if people are being "moved" by God. For a while they at least flirted with the doctrine of Sinless perfection, something very close to the heart of God.

But a few years ago God tried to get them to move on concerning being born again. The message came forth among them of Acts 2:38. Several of the ministers there seemed to embrace it and it was really looking good!

Then Pastor Bickle came out against it and shut down the message Jesus was so happy to bring them. Well it was not long afterward I noticed a definite downturn in the vision. They strongly asserted they were an "Evangelical" Church, meaning we dont accept the Acts 2:38 message.

Then it seemed many times as we watched the live stream it was emphasized the stale old doctrine that there is NOTHING we can do to make God love us more, and that he does not love us less if we fall into sin. I cant say they were teaching OSAS but it certainly comes across that way.

As I began to have less interest in them as a group I noticed they were moving instead of closer to God they were moving closer to the Catholic Church.

So point is this. Thousands of young people came from sin or out of dead Churchs and received the Spirit and the joy of the Lord. It was for them a great move! They were growing and going forward with God.

But when God brings more truth for a group if it is rejected he draws back They stop moving with him. They cease to be A MOVE OF GOD.

Of course this does not mean God takes his Spirit away from all of them. People can still be loving God and moving with him in their own lives but the "movement" dries up having lost the desire to continue following WHEREVER Jesus leads.

Part 1. To be continued.

Re: The Last Reformation Hospital Miracle
 

As to the New Reformation Movement being discussed here, I put a thread on this forum a few years ago about Torben. I said in the thread I was impressed with him. I have not followed his ministry but a few comments.

If this man started out in the Lutheran faith he has indeed experienced a great move of God. Its a long way to come from the dead, dry Evangelical faith to where he is now.

The most impressive thing IMO is that he has SEEMINGLY embraced the real new birth taught by Jesus. That is a great breakthrough if true. And it has been said on the thread he believes in Oneness! How I hope thats true. That truly is a long way to have come in a journey of faith so yes I consider his ministry a "move" of God from what I have heard.

And to be out on the streets praying for people to get the Holy Ghost and for healing really puts LIFE into it! We prayed for the sick on the streets in the Jesus Movement also.

So unless I hear otherwise I will say yes his ministry is a move of God.

What about the "Apostolic Movement" otherwise known as the Apostolic Churches, UPC,.....

This movement started in 1914 from the Assemblies Of God group. They were men who had received the Holy Ghost and were seeking truth from God. Shortly after the AOG were established as a Trinitarian Church the truth of baptism in Jesus name came out among them.

Soon came the revelation of the Oneness of God and new birth of Acts 2:38. Now I am only 64 and was not there among this move until 1978 so I will just comment as to what I think I know.

Surely Jesus "moved" with these people and they moved with him! It was I think the most significant of any revival in history. The mask was ripped of the face of the Trinity! People were pointed to a Jesus the Apostles had walked with and known.....the Eternal Father and the begotten Son!

Well this teaching has went around the world as the decades went by and millions have now come into the body of Jesus as taught by the Apostles.

Now I count myself as an "Apostolic" Christian. I learned these truths from a UPCI tract writer so I am in their debt for that.

But is there currently a movement of God in Apostolic Churches? I have seen very little since I have been in it. Yes they teach these 2 great truths. Oneness and the new birth. Yet in other areas of foundation doctrine they as a whole have not been going anywhere for decades.

They teach the same as Evangelical Churches on the other foundation doctrines. For some reason they have ceased being a "movement" with Jesus. Instead of going on to more foundation truth (rejecting it) they have made their own doctrines.

For example instead of accepting the headcovering truth as taught by Paul they refuse the veil but condemn a woman to Hell if she even trims her hair! They teach such nonsense that if a man wears a beard he is rebellious, proud, and sinning! Most (not all) still walk hand in hand with Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny!

Fellowship in the home is frowned upon while pew sitting and amening Preachers is highly encouraged as you get a pat on the back and praise the Lord brother as you walk out the door for "fellowship".

And if you forgot to pay your tithes quickly go back and do it because as we were taught in my first Apostolic Church, If you rob God of ONE PENNY you will go to Hell!

So in my opinion the rejection of foundation truths such as post trib rapture, the resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment has left a void among them that they fill with the doctrines and traditions of men.

Conclusion: Im still waiting to see a "move" a GOING FORWARD to more truth and therefore more Spirit among the "Apostolic" movement.

Re: The Last Reformation Hospital Miracle
 

I saw two times in my life people speaking tongues and be demon demonized!
The one was speaking in tongues with an agresive manner and some days after he was "filed" he starts make crazy things like cutting off his eyebrows etc.
The second person i saw in Mary worship video while he was praise an idol he starts speak in tongues with a scary voice.

And if you want to take it further ,yes i believe when people are entered in the spiritual sphere and are ignorant or other things too can be demon processed.
I dont want to say "this is from deomons" but i can say that this is NOT of God:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlT3oaaed9U

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The closest anyone might point to is 1 John 5:18,

We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not, but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

If a believer has "let himself go" (as opposed to keeping himself), it may be construed that the wicked one begins to be able to touch him, as it were. And should that take place, in an assembly of saints, something more than simply "out of hand" might take place.

Again, conjecture only.