Wine vs Grape Juice
 

What percentage of oneness Pentecostals do you guesstimate take wine vs graphic juice. I am not wanting to debate the subject at all, I am just doing some research on the numbers either way.

Re: Wine vs Grape Juice
 

His NAME is Jesus!

Why not just take a survey...or is this what you are doing?


Brother Villa

Re: Wine vs Grape Juice
 

I am a oneness apostolic and I have no problem whatsoever with taking a few sips of wine now and then.

So count me in. :spit

Re: Wine vs Grape Juice
 

wine is likely a gateway drug.

Re: Wine vs Grape Juice
 

Wine as first choice then grapejuice. Nothing wrong with a LITTLE wine according to Paul. Jesus turned water into wine.

If one was a drunkard and is tempted by it wisdom might be to avoid. Grape juice will be allright.

Re: Wine vs Grape Juice
 

As per the OP, I know many that drink a little wine in oneness circles.

Probably at least 25% of the ones I know.

It is great to hear the other posters do not have any alcoholics in their immediate family or new converts and saints to worry about being an example to.

Re: Wine vs Grape Juice
 

Our fellowship has no issue with exercising moderation in relation to the drinking alcohol. However, during the Lord's Supper, we use grape juice. It is primarily for those who might have struggled with, or who might have been traumatized by, alcoholism. It is also to show moderation and restraint in the eyes of the children present. We don't think it would be a sin to use wine in the Lord's Supper, it's just not our preference. The grape juice of preference is Welch's Grape Juice, which I was told was originally made for churches that wished to stop using alcoholic wines.

Re: Wine vs Grape Juice
 

I think the question is about The Lord’s supper not social drinking?

Re: Wine vs Grape Juice
 

Graphic juice? Is that the old MD 40/40?

Re: Wine vs Grape Juice
 

What would (did) Jesus do?

Why did they call Him a glutton and a winebibber?

I think we know the answer, but we pretend otherwise. I'm not sure that it matters though whether it is wine or grape juice. I think that the wine is more authentic, but I've never taken communion with wine.

Just for fun: Slightly off topic. We preach against drinking because drunkenness is a sin. Why do we not preach against eating, since gluttony is a sin?

Re: Wine vs Grape Juice
 

Gulp!!!

Re: Wine vs Grape Juice
 

20/20

Re: Wine vs Grape Juice
 

40/40 got outlawed.

Re: Wine vs Grape Juice
 

This is what I was told by an older family member. I said "You mean Mad Dog 20/20?" She said "No, 40/40, it got banned or something decades back in the 70s."

So there's that.

Re: Wine vs Grape Juice
 

Did y'all know the MD actually stands for Mogen David? Yes, Mad Dog is kosher.

lol

Re: Wine vs Grape Juice
 

Yes. Downed a weird shaped bottle when I was 19. Not a good experience.

Re: Wine vs Grape Juice
 

Wine is for the Lord’s supper, communion.

Not social drinking.

Re: Wine vs Grape Juice
 

I agree that wine is for communion.

I do not agree that wine is NOT for social drinking.

This issue amuses me. Why do we teach against drinking? We all know the drill. How many weddings (weddings are social occasions), have we attended where the minister performing the ceremony invokes the scripture that Jesus' first miracle was performed at a wedding? It is used to lend credibility to the marriage ceremony, as it should be. Have you heard this?

Now that almost everybody is waving their hands, let me ask this. How many times have you heard it commented on that Jesus' first miracle was making wine, out of water?! I'm not seeing as many hands, for some odd reason.

It is a cultural thing. Perhaps it is a remnant of our puritanical roots. It is however, NOT based on Bible.

Wine was for social drinking. It still is. It was for celebrations. It still is for celebrations. It was for everyday consumption. It still is.

Jesus drank wine. Paul instructed Timothy to drink a little wine for his health. This is all found in the scripture.

I am feeling convicted. I have a dirty little secret.


I don't drink wine or ANY alcoholic beverages.

Do you think there is any hope for me to be saved?

I am so ashamed. And I pretend to be a follower of Christ! I need to do better. Lord, I hope it is not a salvational issue.


:nod:nod:nod

Maybe I'll go out and buy a bottle of wine. But what if my church members (or my pastor), see me?

What's a body to do.

(sigh)

Re: Wine vs Grape Juice
 

My suggestion is stop doing communion before you get online.:nod

Re: Wine vs Grape Juice
 

Sean, you should be ashamed! Here we are being all serious, yea even feeling conviction, and you are being funny.

And that WAS funny though.


:heeheehee

Re: Wine vs Grape Juice
 

Wine was used as drink with meals because of the fermentation helps digestion. Same thing with other middle eastern fermented foods or beverages. Yet, while we may be able to do these things it might not be profitable. Because not everyone is a church disgruntle, having problems with Christian culture of separation from the culture around you. You might be worried about a pastor seeing you, but your church circles aren't the problem. It is the unchurched who might walk away with the wrong idea.

Re: Wine vs Grape Juice
 

Again as with the tithing, this issue needs to be taught from a point of truth not slanted to what we want it to say.

Biblical wine was NOT simply grape juice.

Ive done a great deal of research on fermentation and there is enough yeast on the grape skins to start the conversions from sugar to alcohol which stops around 14% alcohol by volume.

The only way they were drinking it non alcoholic was if it was right off the vine because without the process of pasteurization that yeast is gonna do its thing.

I do NOT drink anymore but it was allowed in scripture and even hints that things like mead were allowed when it says they can sell the tithe for money and buy whatever they desired even STRONG DRINK.

It not about making things permissible...its about honesty...last time I checked, lying would send you to hell.*not accusing you of lying*

Re: Wine vs Grape Juice
 

Yes, strong drink was allowed, but no over drinking the strong drink.
That would be left up to the individual's constitution.

Still, me kicking back with a "flagon" of dark stout just won't look good.

Re: Wine vs Grape Juice
 

Raisin cakes instead?

Re: Wine vs Grape Juice
 

Way back when in another time in a galaxy far far way, I had a friend who use to ferment raisins it was like prison pruno. It was nasty, it was like sweet shoe polish. :vomit

Re: Wine vs Grape Juice
 

Just a question? Is it okay ���� to drink �� �� �� a LITTLE wine as long as you don’t enjoy �� it TOO much? Ummmm . . . Only for religious reasons, of course!

Annnd . . . How often should a man take communion??? Is it still communion if you take it every day???

Just asking . . . You know for a friend of course

Re: Wine vs Grape Juice
 

What does winebibber and glutinous have to do with each other?

Re: Wine vs Grape Juice
 

Jesus was accused of both?

Re: Wine vs Grape Juice
 

“It not about making things permissible...its about honesty...last time I checked, lying would send you to hell.”

That’s what I’m talking about!!

Preach on!

Re: Wine vs Grape Juice
 

LOL


:highfive

Re: Wine vs Grape Juice
 

Yes, but what do they have to do with each other?

Re: Wine vs Grape Juice
 

They are both addictions. Show lack of control. No TEMPERANCE.

Re: Wine vs Grape Juice
 

Why does it not look good? Because we have said it is not good. It has been our tradition for many years. We have painted ourselves into a corner repeatedly for decades concerning a variety of issues: drinking, television, internet, red dresses, Facebook, and you name it.

We preach for doctrine the commandments of men. That’s how we do it.

Re: Wine vs Grape Juice
 

Preachers have attempted to maintain a wall of separation from the world and as we become more liberal we also become more worldly. Jesus often withdrew to lonely places for times of prayer. We are pressed on every side with the worldly influence of television, internet and Facebook. Psychologists are telling people to unplug because being constantly connected to social media causes people to be unhappy. It's mostly fake news, and when we compare ourselves to others fake lives we become depressed.

Alcoholism destroys families and lives. We should separate from it for the sake of others, one persons liberty can be another person's destruction.

Maybe early civilizations incorporated wine in a much different manner then we do. In our civilization, if someone sees a us drinking wine it gives them a false sense of liberty to consume alcohol to their destruction.

We are not at the point where preachers are setting boundaries that are too constraining. We are at the point where worldliness is drowning out the voice of God. We are at the point where it's more important to receive a person's tithes, then preach against sin and worldliness and have a person walk.

We have bucked the old paths and bucked and bucked till some have become wearied with making a stand, but you will reap the results with your kids and grandkids because they will lose the message altogether. They will think nothing of having children out of wedlock, or having a drink at the local bar, or watching the worst perversions on media.

If you are so keen to tell the truth about alcohol please include statistics on ruined lives.

Re: Wine vs Grape Juice
 

Doesnt look good? Dude, Jesus created a massive amount of FERMENTED WINE as his first miracle.

He wasnt just caught with a can....He passed out kegs!

You cant start retroactively declaring stuff sin!

Lack of moderation IS sin but how weird is something to be declared sin that Christ and all the disciples participated in?

"Well if you sin, you lose the Holy Ghost because God wont dwell in a unclean temple."

Ok, if drinking is automatically sin, how was Christ able to be a perfect sinless sacrifice?

Preaching something as sin without it actually being sin does NOT make that thing sin and to do so is to declare yourself more righteous than Christ.

"Hey Jesus, um yeah me and the board decided that the water into wine thing, since it was actually alcoholic, is a big no no for us so we are voting you out."

Again....honesty.

Re: Wine vs Grape Juice
 

We must be careful to avoid offending others, even if we have liberty to do something. It's not all about what we can do.

Re: Wine vs Grape Juice
 

Awesome post.:nod

Re: Wine vs Grape Juice
 

15 Woe unto him that giveth his neighbour drink, that puttest thy bottle to him, and makest him drunken also, that thou mayest look on their nakedness!

16 Thou art filled with shame for glory: drink thou also, and let thy foreskin be uncovered: the cup of the Lord's right hand shall be turned unto thee, and shameful spewing shall be on thy glory.

17 For the violence of Lebanon shall cover thee, and the spoil of beasts, which made them afraid, because of men's blood, and for the violence of the land, of the city, and of all that dwell therein.




Is that why Jesus was crucified?:smack

Re: Wine vs Grape Juice
 

Pretty sure thats talking of getting someone drunk to take sexual advantage of them.....not the same thing bro.

Re: Wine vs Grape Juice
 

This is my point. How can we retroactively declare something sin that Jesus did and Paul recommended? Then we want to talk about we may have liberty to do so but we may cause others to be weak.

Let’s go back to the gluttony thing. Do we refrain from eating in front of someone because they have a “weakness” for eating? Do we talk about people who are digging their own grave with a fork and a spoon?

Temperance is a fruit 🍉 🍌 🍎 of the Spirit. We preach abstinence instead. Because we are all or nothing. Temperance is not all or nothing. Temperance is “have a LITTLE wine”.

I’m just having fun with this.

But it does bother me when people preach against something Jesus did. Do you honestly think 🤔 that people didn’t get drunk in Jesus time?

“These are not drunk, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the ninth hour” . . .

But we justify preaching what our traditions agree with, and we justify NOT preaching what our traditions DON’T agree with, without regard for what the Bible says. Tithes is a prime example.