Happy Valentine's Day! A look at Valentine's Day
 

Valentine's Day History

February 14th (Valentine's Day) is historically known as the Feast of St. Valentine. St. Valentine is a beloved Saint, venerated throughout the world by many Christians.

Since Apostolics around the world are participating in the cultural tradition of what is known as St. Valentine's Day, I thought it might be of some value to shed a little light on the history of this festival. The historical, Valentine's Day is the Feast of St. Valentine (Valentinus). There are several different legends about this ancient Christian, and some scholars believe that the legend of St. Valentine might even be a compilation of different legends based on several different individuals. However, for the sake of brevity and simplicity, I'm going to share the generally accepted traditional legend.

Here's a bit of history on this guy that has come to be known as St. Valentine.

Saint Valentine is best known as the patron saint of love and lovers. Many traditional Christians in the more Eastern churches say God worked through his life to perform miracles and teach people how to recognize and experience true love.

This famous saint, an Italian doctor who later became a priest, inspired the creation of the Valentine's Day holiday. He was sent to jail for performing secret weddings for couples during a time when new marriages were outlawed in the ancient Rome.

Before he was killed for refusing to renounce his faith, he sent a loving note to a child he had been helping to teach, the daughter of his jailer, and that note eventually led to the tradition of sending Valentine's cards.

Lifetime: Birth year unknown, died 270 AD in Italy

Feast Day: February 14th

Patron Saint Of: Love, lovers, marriages, engagements, young people, greetings, travelers, bee keepers, people with epilepsy, and numerous churches

Famous Miracles of Saint Valentine:

The most famous miracle attributed to Saint Valentine involved a note that he sent to a young blind girl named Julia who Valentine had befriended. Shortly before he was martyred for his faith in Jesus Christ, Valentine wrote Julia a farewell note. Believers say that God miraculously cured Julia of her blindness so that she could personally read Valentine’s note, rather than just have someone else read it to her.

Valentine signed Julia’s note “From your Valentine,” and that loving note, combined with the memory of Valentine’s support of engaged and married couples in his work as a priest, led to the tradition of sending loving messages on his feast day, Valentine’s Day.

Throughout the years since Valentine died, people have prayed for him to intercede for them before God in heaven about their romantic lives. Numerous couples have reported experiencing miraculous improvements in their relationships with boyfriends, girlfriends, and spouses after praying for help from Saint Valentine to love their romantic partners in the way God would like them to put love in action.

Biography:

Saint Valentine was a Catholic priest who had also worked as a doctor. He lived in Italy during the third century AD and served as a priest in Rome.

Historians don’t know much about Valentine’s early life. They pick up Valentine’s story after he began working as a priest. Valentine became famous for marrying couples who were in love but couldn’t get legally married in Rome during the reign of Emperor Claudius II, who outlawed weddings. Claudius wanted to recruit lots of men to be soldiers in his army and thought that marriage would be an obstacle to recruiting new soldiers. He also wanted to prevent his existing soldiers from getting married because he thought that marriage would distract them from their work.

When Emperor Claudius discovered that Valentine was acting outside of Roman government authority and performing secret weddings, he sent Valentine to jail. Valentine used his time in jail to continue to reach out to people with the love that he said Jesus Christ gave him for others.

He befriended his jailer, Asterious, who became so impressed with Valentine’s wisdom that he asked Valentine to help his daughter Julia with her lessons. Julia was blind and needed someone to read material for her to learn it. Valentine then became friends with Julia through his work with her when she came to visit him in jail.

Emperor Claudius also came to like Valentine. He offered to pardon Valentine and set him free if Valentine would renounce his Christian faith and agree to worship the Roman gods. Not only did Valentine refuse to leave his faith, he also encouraged Emperor Claudius to place his trust in Christ. Valentine’s faithful choices cost him his life. Emperor Claudius was so enraged at Valentine’s response that he sentenced Valentine to die.

A Loving Letter Inspires Valentine’s Day Messages

Before he was killed, Valentine wrote a last note to encourage Julia to stay close to Jesus and to thank her for being his friend. He signed the note: “From your Valentine.” That note inspired people to begin writing their own loving messages to people on Valentine’s Feast Day, February 14th, which is celebrated on the same day on which Valentine was martyred. Couples also continued to write one another proposals and love letters, and since marriage was illegal, they would sign these letters, "Your Valentine". This was to confuse any Roman authority who discovered the letters while honoring the memory of the beloved priest, Valentine.

Valentine was beaten, stoned, and beheaded on February 14, 270. People who remembered his loving service to many young couples began celebrating his life, and he came to be regarded as a saint through whom God had worked to help people in miraculous ways. By 496, Pope Gelasius designated February 14th as Valentine’s official feast day.

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For most of us in the West, we don't really consider Valentine's Day in light of any historic Christian tradition. To most of us Valentine's Day is more of a Hallmark holiday of chocolate, romance, and fancy lingerie. But for many Christians in other parts of the world, this is a holiday with deep liturgical and spiritual meaning. It is a time to reflect and pray for marriages, relationships, one's love life, and close friendships. It is also a day to contemplate one's dedication to the Christian faith, especially should one be faced with persecution.

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And here in the attached pictures below we have the tomb and a relic of St. Valentine. While this might appear macabre to our modern sensibilities, ancient Christians often preserved and venerated the remains and belongings of beloved Christians and Christian leaders. These artifacts became known as holy relics. It was believed by these ancient Christians that touching, venerating, and praying before these ancient relics imparted divine power and grace. Miraculous healings and experiences are often attributed to these items by believers in this tradition. This tradition is based on how these early Christians viewed the following texts:

Elisha's Bones:

2 Kings 13:21 (ESV)
And as a man was being buried, behold, a marauding band was seen and the man was thrown into the grave of Elisha, and as soon as the man touched the bones of Elisha, he revived and stood on his feet.

The woman with an issue of blood:

Mark 5:25-29 (ESV)
25 And there was a woman who had had a discharge of blood for twelve years, 26 and who had suffered much under many physicians, and had spent all that she had, and was no better but rather grew worse. 27 She had heard the reports about Jesus and came up behind him in the crowd and touched his garment. 28 For she said, “If I touch even his garments, I will be made well.” 29 And immediately the flow of blood dried up, and she felt in her body that she was healed of her disease.

Clothing worn by the Apostle Paul (also known today in many churches as the origin of "prayer cloths"):

Acts 19:11-12 (ESV)
11 And God was doing extraordinary miracles by the hands of Paul, 12 so that even handkerchiefs or aprons that had touched his skin were carried away to the sick, and their diseases left them and the evil spirits came out of them.

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So, there's the scoop on the history behind the Christian tradition associated with Valentine's Day.

If you and a significant other are celebrating your love today, I wish you the best.

Here's a rather nice prayer I found on the internet for couples. May God bless and keep you, as your love flourishes under the power of divine grace and mercy.

A Prayer for Couples

Dear God,

Please make of our relationship a great and holy adventure.
May our joining be a sacred space.
May the two of us find rest here, a haven for our souls.

Remove from us any temptation to judge one another or to direct one another.
We surrender to You our conflicts and our burdens.
We know You are our Answer and our rock.
Help us to not forget.

Bring us together in heart and mind as well as body.
Remove from us the temptation to criticize or be cruel.
May we not be tempted by fantasies and projections, but guide us in the ways of holiness.
Save us from darkness.

May this relationship be a burst of light.
May it be a fount of love and wisdom for us, for our family, for our community, for our world.
May this bond be a channel for Your love and healing, a vehicle of Your grace and power.
As lessons come and challenges grow, let us not be tempted to forsake each other.
Let us always remember that in each other we have the most beautiful woman, the most beautiful man, the strongest one, the sacred one in whose arms we are repaired.

May we remain young in this relationship.
May we grow wise in this relationship.
Bring us what You desire for us, and show us how You would have us be.

Thank you, dear God, You who are the cement between us.
Thank You for this love.

Amen.

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Here's a video on the origin of Valentine's Day:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YguF1pcBWYI

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I thought this was cute, so I decided to share it. It's a cartoon for kids to help explain the tradition of St. Valentine's Day. They try to be non-sectarian and the story is told with much innocence. This story emphasizes not only Valentine's faith and courage, but the legend about how Valentine and the jailor's daughter, Julia, fell in love during Valentine's imprisonment.

If you think about it, Valentine's story is quite a romantic tragedy. The government prohibits marriage, so a priest (Valentine) defies the government and marries couples secretly to honor God. The priest is arrested and imprisoned for defying the emperor's edict. The jailor has Valentine tutor his daughter while Valentine is incarcerated. Then the jailor's daughter (Julia) is healed of blindness and she comes to faith in Christ. She continues to visit the priest and they fall in love. Valentine refuses to admit wrong doing and refuses to deny his faith before the emperor. As a result, the priest is sentenced to death. And even more tragically, the night prior to the execution Valentine and Julia are not allowed to see one another. The next day, Valentine is speedily executed, before Julia can see him on last time. The only thing she has is a love letter, and Christian admonition to remain faithful, signed, "Your Valentine".

Yes, much of this is legend. That means that there are embellishments and perhaps even a blending of different stories. But I have to admit, it is a great traditional story and the lessons it presents are heart warming.

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Valentine's Day is just another pagan tradition. Folks can google all the info they can digest. Of course, the whining about muh feelz and whut diff'rence does it make will be incessant, as usual. Meanwhile, the real world keeps on turning. Hope nobody is counting on their pension plan to be working in ten years.

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Leave it to Aquila to peddle the state church

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Excellent point.

Yes!

The Roman church did indeed use the Feast of St. Valentine to offer a Christian alternative to the pagan festival of Lupercalia (which began on February 15th not the 14th) in the hopes of "Christianizing" the culture.

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No, I stated my intentions in my first post:

Since Apostolics around the world are participating in the cultural tradition of what is known as St. Valentine's Day, I thought it might be of some value to shed a little light on the history of this festival.

Like it or not, I'm right. Many Apostolics are buying their wives and sweethearts Valentine's Day cards, chocolates, gifts, etc. today. Why not look at a little history regarding why this is a part of our culture? And why not accentuate the "Christian" elements of it instead of being so cynical and allowing the wholesale secularization of our society?

Think about it... if we REFUSE to even mention the Christian elements of our society's cultural history... how can we complain that everything is so secular???

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Please note. I never said anyone had to observe the tradition or believe in the tradition. It was simply an FYI.

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Aquila are you considering Roman Catholicism? Please forgive me here, but what on earth do we care about Catholic veneration of relics? May 24th 2018 is your name day according to the Eastern Greek Orthodox Church. Will you be celebrating that? Today is Ash Wednesday, do you think that we should all get the priest to crush out a cigar on our foreheads? Do you have any idea how many saint days there are in a Catholic year? Why pick one? Because a secular society picked it for you? This isn't the first time you posted this stuff about "How to incorporate Roman Catholicism into the Apostolic Movement" with your Xmas and Saint Nicolas threads, I even think you did one about Halloween. Bro, seriously, I have Greek Orthodox and Catholic clergy who I have known a long time. When they read things like this coming from Pentecostalish Protostantish individuals, they really wonder. Why on earth do they claim sola scriptura? Vatican II Catholics really don't have that hard of a time with it, and Greek Orthodox just shake their heads with under the breath laughter. Yet, Sedevacantist place their hands on their hips and shout HYPOCRITICAL BUNCH OF PHONIES!!!! Just put on the ruby red slippers and click them together and start chanting, "there's no place like Rome, there's no place like Rome, there's no place like Rome. God help us. :(

Good grief

http://www.internationalschoolhistor...mages/foot.jpg

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:icecream or maybe you just wanted to :stirpot to see if we are awake :nod

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FYI?

You really believe we don't know where all this religious papal baloney comes from?

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Sister, your Kung Fu is very, very good. :thumbsup

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I have kids. At their school they give out Valentine's Day cards and exchange candies, etc. My kids have asked why we do that. I gladly share the legends associated with the tradition. I mean, what do I tell them, "Ummm... we don't talk about that stuff." LOL

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Sometimes, I do like waking y'all up a little for a good discussion. lol :happydance

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No, I assure you that I'm not interested in Catholicism. :lol

Greek Orthodox? I dig their beards. But funny hats aren't my style. :tiphat

Ashy Wednesday? If I had a choice, I'd rather chill with a Rastafarian. :p

I know that probably over 50% of those who call themselves Apostolic are going to buy their love some Valentine's Day candies, dinner, and/or a gift. It's all over my Facebook. I also know a great deal of them will give their love a Valentine's Day card. Countless numbers of us have kids in schools that are exchanging "Valentine's". Yes, they are church going UPCI Apostolics. And we won't touch how even pastors are buying their wives "a little something" for Valentine's Day.

Now, I'm not the kind of guy that will board up my windows and ground my kids from going outside on these holidays and pretend that these holidays don't exist. Nor am I the kind of guy who will put on a tallit, march around dressed up like some ancient Hebrew, and blow a shofar while trying to celebrate some dusty old Jewish festival. I explain the origins of the traditions my kids might see and that many of us "Apostolics" even participate in. What's funny is... I know there are folks reading this thread who already bought their significant other some candies or something. And maybe they never had a clue about who Valentine even was. Maybe they never even thought of Googling it. But, now they know. :)

I never said we should venerate St. Valentine (who is most likely really a composite character of several different individuals). Nor did I encourage that someone track down some boring goofball with a collar and funny hat to participate in a liturgy. I did post something about the relics because when you see the tombs, bones, relics, etc. associated with the tradition, it brings a little reality regarding how old the traditions might be. So, those who profess it is nothing but a "Hallmark holiday" are just woefully ignorant of the history.

For me personally, this is just interesting historical banter and an FYI kind of thing. I don't see any spiritual significance in it at all.

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You're assuming I was writing this for you specifically?

I was only presenting it for those who might not know.

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I might as well stir the pot a little though. Maybe an interesting conversation will follow. Okay... here goes... :stirpot

The only theological question that I think of that might be of any relevance that might come from this thread is in relation to... the ancient belief in relics. Now, I don't believe in the relics thing. I think they were fraudulent trinkets and bones sold to hapless people by snake oil salesmen. But... behind every counterfeit... there is typically some kind of reality. I want to focus on what possible realities might exist that led to this ancient belief in relics.

Based on 2 Kings 13:21 (Elisha's bones), Mark 5:25-30 ("virtue" departing from Christ upon having his garment touched), and Acts 19:11-12 (the aprons taken from the body of Paul that healed and delivered those in need)... is it possible for physical objects to harbor, or be conduits, of divine power?

I used to believe that these things were just objects that helped to activate the faith of individuals... but then there's the problem of a dead man being raised to life upon touching Elisha's bones. He was dead. He had no "faith" or conscious awareness on earth to speak of. It's like Elisha's bones remained loaded with enough power to perform at least one more miracle. And of course, we know that when Elisha died, he was one miracle shy of completely doubling the miracles witnessed in Elijah's ministry. So, this one last miracle fulfilled the "double portion" of the anointing that Elisha was said to have attained. I don't think Elisha's bones could be used as a "relic" to heal or raise the dead after this one final miracle. I believe that whatever was in those bones was most likely spent upon raising the dead man to life. But such a thing could give rise to the superstitious belief that they might. And such a thing begs the question as to if objects, or things like bones, garments, aprons, belongings, etc. might harbor some residual power. Our elders believed in prayer cloths. But the focus seemed to be more on the cloths than explaining the significance of the spiritual realities or processes involved.

Thoughts? Or is this worthy of having its own thread?

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Just pointing out the miraculous is not necessarily good.

2 Thess 2:8-10

8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

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True, we know there are lying wonders and false miracles.

But... I'm talking about the real miracles mentioned in Scripture. For example, what was in Elisha's bones that brought a man back to life? What was in the aprons taken from Paul's body that healed the sick and delivered the demonized? What was that power? How did these objects get imbued with it? Can such a thing happen today? Are there spiritual principles in play that would allow for the deliberate use of such power in this manner? For example, an elder who feels led to pray over the Teddy Bear he plans on giving a sick grandchild, believing that the bear will carry the power of God to the child upon their receiving it? Or a wife who is fed up with her husband's drinking who prays over his pillow, believing that the power of God will rattle his cage to get his attention so that he might wake up and realize what his habit is doing to the family? Or what about elders gathered for prayer in the pastor's office, praying over cloths that they plan on taking to the sick and shut-ins, believing that the power of God will continue to work in ways unseen, that those shut-ins might be healed and/or delivered from any disease or spiritual oppression?

Or do such questions trouble us and frighten us? Or, do we believe that the days of that kind of power and those kinds of miracles are over?

Seriously. Without flippant dismissals, attacks on character, or individual intentions... What is the pneumatology behind these things in Scripture?

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:lol

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In the immortal words of my mother; if 50% of XYZ jumped off a cliff would you follow them? The immortal words of Jesus, "If the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a pit." I notice you didn't touch the portion of my post where Catholics and Eastern Orthodoxy see the group of supposed "I want to be Biblical" or "Where's that in the Bible?" or "I am sola scriptura!" as the biggest bunch of posers who pick and choose as they claim being scripturally correct. Pastors buying their wives heart shaped box with assorted chocolates? A Roman priest once said this, "we may only have one pope, but it seems as you have many?" You claim sola scriptura? You run down holiness standards as if the ultraconservative is some primordial evolutionary down turn of a missing link? Yet, when it comes to these holidays and other such items baptized into Pentecost, it gets labeled harmless, non salvational trifles. Then all of a sudden we get hit with the bones of the prophet resurrecting a corpse, and Paul's tallit healing people? All to justify some decorated mummified foot?

Martin Luther told this story about when he was young and made his pilgrimage to the Vatican in Rome. When he was returning back to Wittenberg he met a man who held a relic in a jeweled box. The man told the young Martin Luther for a small fee, he would show him the severed head of John the Baptist. Martin Luther surprised said it couldn't be, because he just saw it in the Roman city. The relic peddler exclaimed, yes, but that was John's head when he was old, this is his head when he was but a youth.

The bones, the mummified limbs of ancient holy men isn't the origin of Roman Christendom. Because like tithing, religious ministerial leadership, sermons by that leadership, and religious gatherings aren't limited to Christians and Hebrews, ancestor worship goes further back as well.

My children didn't go to public school, but they aren't boarded up in a dark house. While people believe homeschoolers are kept like Flowers in the Attic. My children were raised around a city filled with everyone and everything. Many things needed to be explained. Yet, instead of allowing them to practice certain traditions and the what not, they were taught just like Ramadan and the Hindu festival of lights, We didn't participate in what some Pentecostals and Christians so called Holidays. No one shed a tear, no one missed out on a Betsy Wetsy, or a Red Ryder BB gun.

Saint Patrick Day? Oh, corned beef and cabbage? How harmless can that be? Diwali is a holiday celebrated in India, which has the most amazing food. Yet, you don't practice it, and if your children met some young Indians and were informed of it, you wouldn't incorporate it into your form of Christianity. In other words you weren't raised with it around you. None of your friends told you about it, so you weren't missing anything as you grew up. Bro, you had Xmas eve, and Xmas day. While when I was a child we had those two, plus the Epiphany. Which went from Xmas eve, to January 6. It celebrated God incarnate in Christ, and the "three" kings. You weren't raised with these things so you didn't miss anything. Fish every Friday!!! I thought that was my mother's schedule, until I was older, I was taught why. Ohio? You probably had macaroni and cheese.

Anyway, the Western Latin Roman and Eastern Greek Roman churches just laugh. When they see those who claim sola scriptura who still keep and practice saint days and masses.

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Bro, Jesus spit on his fingers, stuck them in a guys ears, and spit on the guys tongue in private Mark 7:33 it is scripture. You willing to give it a go? How about Joseph used a gazing bowl Genesis 44:5. Should we also employ scrying?

Did the apostles teach it? How did the apostles work in the book of acts? Did Paul teach on the use of withered mummified limbs? Yet, the greater question would be "when was the last time your shadow healed a cripple?"

What is behind Joseph's gazing bowl? Laban used divination Genesis 30:27. Yet, the prohibitions in Deuteronomy 18:10, and 1 Samuel 15:23 come way later. Genesis is the beginning showing with Abraham a pagan coming out from among his people to worship the One True Living God. The slow evolution from darkness to light as Jacob also comes out from his pagan relatives. Joseph being apart of a pagan system, reading dreams like any of the other Egyptian priests would do. Moses has an Egyptian name, and is told to use "Egyptian magic" to show pharoah the power of God. Because unlike the magicians, Moses' serpent overpowered their serpents. Questions deserve answers. But speeches on how these things are harmless and really have a Christian past, because we need to know, just seem odd. Especially when you never practiced them while being in the church.


No one has attacked your character, right? Our conversation here is pretty pleasant, correct?

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Salvation isn't a ticket to heaven, its a cleansing from sin. Paganism and idolatry and immorality are sin. Therefore salvation includes having those things removed from your life. Why then would such cleansed people want or even remotely be interested in maintaining commemorations of paganism, immorality, and idolatry?

Its like a woman, married, then widowed. She marries another man, but keeps all the photos of her dead husband on the wall, wears her original ring, celebrates her dead husband's birthday, her original anniversary, etc. When asked why she does such things, she replies "Oh, its just fond memories. My current husband has no problem with it."

Any normal person would say her current husband is essentially some kind of cuckold.

News flash: Jesus isn't some hippie beta cuck soyboy who doesn't mind His bride flirting with her old lovers. He's the alpha (and omega) male Conquistador who literally exterminates entire nations that look awry at His woman. And if she's unfaithful He doesn't have a problem ordering her to be burnt to death.

He loves His bride, so much He died for her. But His name is Jealous, and the fire of the anger of His jealousy burns to the lowest hell.

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Hmmm...

Hey, don't forget about the 4th of July, Veteran's Day, and Memorial Day. For one of the most prolific false religions in America today is the worship of the fascist nation state. The the citizen sacrificing their children on the altars of the modern Molech of a blind patriotism through the unholy sacrament of war, conducted by the high priests of the Pentagon, at the behest of the emperor who is so safely enshrined on Pennsylvania Ave. But, for the sake of keeping the people in a state of heightened anxiety and division, the oracles of Wall Street have marketed two denominations of this false religion. The first denomination waves their flags proudly, guns loaded on their sides, with a bible in the other hand, and a mouth full of bacon, their Make America Great Again hats, with bills flipped high, hiding their shaved heads, as they target any who might disagree with the anathema of "unAmerican!"...The second piously sings the stilted high praises of a secularism whose altars are decked with chalices overflowing with the blood of the unborn and the rancid wedding cake of sodomites for a most unholy Eucharist. Both strategically designed to advance an antichrist agenda by playing all Americans against their best interests to defeat the exaggerated stereotype of the other, for the sake of a blessed corporatism.

And then there's Thanksgiving, a holiday in which we gluttonously gorge ourselves with the bounty of a land that we stole from an indigenous people, while mercilessly conducting a systematic genocide through war, blankets laced with smallpox, and rape.

My point?

Anyone can exaggerate the evils of a topic to avoid actual dialogue. Lol

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So far, no one has attacked my character. And the conversation is pleasant.

I see the points regarding scrying etc.

But they are unrelated to the power that was in Elisha's bones, the virtue (or power) that departed from Christ as a desperate woman touched his garments, and the handkerchiefs that were made from Paul's aprons that delivered the sick and demonized.

Or are you implying that this power present in these instances is the same behind scrying and Egyptian magic? Maybe I'm misunderstanding you.

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:yourock

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Funny, I didn't exaggerate a thing. But, I simply demonstrated how those who claim to be "Biblical" pull a 180 when it comes to their emotions towards the secular society. That's not exaggerating, it is just the sad facts when people claim to be sola scriptura. Who then take a saint day or a Roman mass to celebrate. Just pointing out how they will say it is all so harmless, but then go into a soliloquy on the holiday's historic "Christian" validity? The saints stories are just that, stories. They aren't Bible. It is like Siddhartha Gautama Buddha, or Ram, Lakshman, Sita, and King Ravana, were these people actual characters in history? Very well could be. Yet, to quote the fictitious Galadriel, "history became legend. Legend becomes myth."
Same thing with Nick, Patrick, and Valentine, whoever these people were in actual history was white washed away by religious mythology, mingled with sprinkles of truth?

Like I said, Roman Catholic saint days are so prevalent within the Roman Catholic year it is staggering. So, why just Nick, Patrick, and Valentine? Well, because those are the three the secular world still observe. While they removed the religious connection and stayed with the pagan connections. Which free them of any semblance of the so called Christian trappings.

Veterans' day, 4th of July, and Memorial day? While having nothing to do with what we are presently discussing, you make a valid observation of Statist worship. Which Sinclair Lewis and anarchist Larkin Rose would give you a resounding hand of applause to your sarcastic musings towards the State's holidays. :)

The founders of this country protected religious freedoms by allowing religion to remain separate from STATE. Therefore we as Apostolics cannot have our beliefs trampled by the state religion[s]. We have freedom of worship. Roman Catholic and or Protestant holidays cannot (or shouldn't) infringe upon my religious freedoms. Meaning that I shouldn't have to close my business on a Sunday, or on Xmas, Easter, or even the 4th of July. Because they aren't my holidays. They mean nothing to my religion or the founder of my religion. Therefore having them crammed down my throat blessed by some imaginary papal degree, or commercial marketer, can be rejected. Rejected with no fear of governmental punishment.

Churchanity in America has no creedal statement. Because it morphs with the world around it. The Sedevacantist, and Eastern Russian Orthodox looks at it and just shakes it head. Churchanity shape shifts faster than a reptilian leader in the mind of David Icke. Churchanity is a many armed god accepting and rejecting issues with its ever changing agenda.

I believe I stayed with the actual dialogue being discussed in this thread. I made my points, and how the Roman Catholics view the modern Church's want to keep certain "holidays" and saint days. As it suits their whims.

If I have not, feel free to point out those exaggerations, and avoidances. :)

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God is omnipotent, Elisha's bones didn't have power separate from God. If anyone was running around with power which was separate from God, then God would cease from being omnipotent. Hence we are shown Balaam's power to curse or bless was totally predicated on God's power Numbers 23:26. Satan is confined to what he is allowed to do by God's power Job 1:6-12. The Church's ability to bind Satan is predicated on God's power. The issue of the serpent rods in the hands of the Egyptian sorcerers is that they had to tap into the only power source. Yet, in the hands of Moses using the power of God correctly and righteously his serpent rod overpowers those of false religion Exodus 7:10-12. Jesus is told that there was a man casting out demons in Jesus' name, but wasn't a follower of Jesus Christ Mark 9:38 . Jesus then informs His followers that they were not to stop such a person. Because the individual wouldn't be able to come against His ministry if he was casting out devils in Jesus name Mark 9:39. Yet, we see the conclusion of the individual who casted out devils but never followed Christ, he at the end is rejected by Jesus Christ Matthew 7:22-23. The same goes for anyone who uses the power of God incorrectly.

Re: Happy Valentine's Day! A look at Valentine's D
 

That's true. I believe that is because so many are taught that the NT doesn't require any holiday, nor does it outright condemn observing cultural holidays. It is left entirely up to the individual to decide based on their convictions. In essence, it is entirely up to how the individual feels about such observances emotionally. As most of us know, they draw this teaching from Romans 14:5-12.

The only problem is, so many haven't moved into a place of spiritual maturity with this teaching. For example, instead of saying, "I don't celebrate Christmas. It's traditions are just too pagan for my tastes.", all too many will say, "Christmas! Christmas is pagan! You can't be Christian and participate in Christmas!" lol

I don't know what's so big about "sola Scriptura". It means, "Scripture alone". It sounds kind of Deist to me. Everyone should also personally know the God of Scripture. But then that would be "sola Scriptura and God". But it doesn't stop there. Because one not only has a personal relationship with God, but one is to be open to the leading of the Spirit. And while the Spirit never leads us contrary to Scripture, He will often challenge our preconceived notions and traditional doctrines relating to the Scriptures. So it would be, "sola Scriptura, and God, and Spirit", or we could say, "Sola Scriptura and Spirit." But then, it doesn't stop there! LOL Because not only do we have the Bible, a personal relationship with God, and the leadings of the Spirit... we also have church tradition! Paul wrote:

1 Corinthians 11:2
Now I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I delivered them to you.

2 Thessalonians 2:15
So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter.

There were "traditions" passed down to the early church, and not all of them are specifically explained in Scripture. Some are hinted at, others are never mentioned at all. For example, one tradition relating to the Lord's Supper is implied. It is that there is a single loaf and a single cup that is passed. Not many little Dixie cups with wafers. One loaf, one cup. There is much symbolism in this tradition. However, I will not go into it here. The point is, this was a tradition, or manner of practice, that was handed down from the Apostles to the church... that isn't elaborated on in Scripture. Another would be the Christian aversion to cremation in the 1st century. I could go on, but I think you get my point.

Honestly, I haven't met anyone who is truly 100% sola Scriptura.

Whenever one talks about the authority of Scripture, one must also talk about how one interprets Scripture. In theology there are mainly two principles of interpreting Scripture. There is the Regulative Principle and the Normative principle. When using the Regulative principle of interpreting Scripture, one will believe that what Scripture does not enjoin explicitly is prohibited. For example, if Scripture doesn't prescribe, describe, or command the use of musical instruments in the NT church... therefore they are viewed as being prohibited and alien to Christian practice. Then there is the Normative Principle. When using the Normative Principle of interpreting Scripture, one will believe that what Scripture does not explicitly prohibit is permitted. For example, Scripture doesn't specifically mention musical instruments in the NT churches... therefore if individual churches or individual Christians find them helpful as a tool to accompany worship, they are permitted. But it must be remembered, that with the Normative Principle, permitted actions taken must not contradict the clear teachings of Scripture. In this example, if a church allows for musical instruments in church, church shouldn't become merely a "concert". Music should be used in a manner that accompanies worship that it might glorify God.

Notice, both positions base their conclusions on Scripture. What is different is how one applies what they find in relation to what they don't find in Scripture.

Who then take a saint day or a Roman mass to celebrate. Just pointing out how they will say it is all so harmless, but then go into a soliloquy on the holiday's historic "Christian" validity? The saints stories are just that, stories. They aren't Bible. It is like Siddhartha Gautama Buddha, or Ram, Lakshman, Sita, and King Ravana, were these people actual characters in history? Very well could be. Yet, to quote the fictitious Galadriel, "history became legend. Legend becomes myth."
Same thing with Nick, Patrick, and Valentine, whoever these people were in actual history was white washed away by religious mythology, mingled with sprinkles of truth?

Of course the actual history is white washed and shrouded in legend. I see these things as merely "Christian" legends that have shaped our cultural traditions here in the United States. They are not to be viewed as absolute truth or history. Back to Regulative vs. Normative principles. Does the Bible plainly forbid such traditions? Nope. Does the Bible specifically condemn such a tradition? Nope. You (Regulative) would warn against them. I (Normative) would argue that unless a thing is explicitly condemned, it is permissible.

Like I said, Roman Catholic saint days are so prevalent within the Roman Catholic year it is staggering. So, why just Nick, Patrick, and Valentine? Well, because those are the three the secular world still observe. While they removed the religious connection and stayed with the pagan connections. Which free them of any semblance of the so called Christian trappings.

Because this is America and the cultural traditions here in America include legends and folk tales about Nick, Patrick, and Valentine. If I were Catholic, I'm sure I'd be far more focused on that, but frankly, I'm not even interested in talking about all those saints... because I'm not Catholic. And with the secularization of America, one would think that we would want to highlight the Christian origins of those traditions. But I see preachers condemn and trash talk those traditions... and then whine, cry, and boohoo that America has lost its "Christian" cultural heritage. I mean, MAKE YOU YOUR FREAKIN' MIND DUDE. LOL Either condemn and cease all Christian practice and tradition because it wasn't started by your denomination and accept that you want a totally secular government void of any sectarian Christian tradition... or defend time honored Christian traditions! LOL

(*Please note, when I say "Christian tradition", I am talking about "Christian" in the sense of relating to the historical Christian faith in general.)

*Takes a bow*

They probable would. :lol

I agree. A private business should be allowed to determine it's own days and hours of operation.

But for those of you guys who HATE the cultural Christian-American traditions of Christmas because it happened to have been borrowed by the evil, blood-sucking, Catholics... the government does shut down. Why? In honor of the Christian cultural tradition. Maybe we need to continue to berate Christians for getting involved with Christmas, open government offices during the Christmas holiday, and relegate all that Western "Christian" cultural tradition mess to the past. It's time to move forward into a brave new secular world sterilized from all Christian influence. Right???

Spoken like a true Regulative guy. :)

I think the diversity of decentralized practice is a good thing for a free and truly Christian society. (I'm the Normative guy here. lol)

Who cares what the Catholics think? I don't. Regardless of what they think of it... American culture (composed of people from all kinds of believes, practices, and Christian denominations) has borrowed from their legends and traditions as it might relate to Christmas, Easter, St. Patrick's Day, Valentine's Day, All Hallows, etc. to form a distinctly American cultural tradition based on these ancient Christian legends. Sure, I don't doubt that they think it's silly. But frankly, it is what it is... and I don't care what they think. lol

And in light of the secularization of our society... I believe the Christian origins of such traditions should be mentioned far more.

Re: Happy Valentine's Day! A look at Valentine's D
 

I've come to look at it a little differently. Or, maybe it's essentially the same, just different terms. I'll share.

I believe that God is omnipotent. No one in their right mind would doubt that. But... God has "energies" (for lack of a better term). Just as the sun emits light and heat... divine energy flows from God and are a part of His very being. These energies permeate creation. However, they are inactive unless one has been granted the authority to activate said energies through faith. And so authority and faith are tied together in relation to these energies. I believe that in some contexts, the Bible calls this "power". Some in the Pentecostal tradition use the term "anointing" to describe the authority and ability to tap into this power.

We read that the authority and ability to use this power is granted to the born again believer, for this power resides in them through the presence of the indwelling Holy Spirit of God.

Acts 1:8
But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

We error if we do not understand the scriptures and the power of God.

Matthew 22:29
Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

We know that this "power" comes from the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit:

Luke 4:14
And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about.

We know that this "power" can be used in conjunction with spiritual authority against evil spirits and to cure diseases:

Luke 9:1
Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases.

We know that this "power" isn't inherent in our own nature or predicated upon our own holiness:

Acts 3:12
And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this? or why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk?

When combined with faith this "power" can be used to unleash great wonders and miracles:

Acts 6:8
And Stephen, full of faith and power, did great wonders and miracles among the people.

When demonstrated, this "power" is coveted by the wicked:

Acts 8:19
Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.

This "power" is distinct from, but not separate, from the Holy Spirit, as it is a part of God's own being:

Acts 10:38
How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

Paul had this power:

Romans 15:19
Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.

1 Corinthians 2:4
And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:

This power can be denied by those who are merely religious:

2 Timothy 3:5
Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

Clearly anyone who has received the baptism of the Holy Spirit has received this "power". But, most of us aren't taught that we have this power, nor are we taught with regards to how to use it. For example, Peter and John, when they prayed for the lame man at the gate of the temple, we don't read about Peter praying and asking God to heal this man. No. We see Peter speak and use the spiritual authority granted him to unleash this power on the lame man in the form of healing:

Acts 3:1-12
1 Now Peter and John went up together into the temple at the hour of prayer, being the ninth hour.
2 And a certain man lame from his mother's womb was carried, whom they laid daily at the gate of the temple which is called Beautiful, to ask alms of them that entered into the temple;
3 Who seeing Peter and John about to go into the temple asked an alms.
4 And Peter, fastening his eyes upon him with John, said, Look on us.
5 And he gave heed unto them, expecting to receive something of them.
6 Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk.7 And he took him by the right hand, and lifted him up: and immediately his feet and ankle bones received strength.
8 And he leaping up stood, and walked, and entered with them into the temple, walking, and leaping, and praising God.
9 And all the people saw him walking and praising God:
10 And they knew that it was he which sat for alms at the Beautiful gate of the temple: and they were filled with wonder and amazement at that which had happened unto him.
11 And as the lame man which was healed held Peter and John, all the people ran together unto them in the porch that is called Solomon's, greatly wondering.
12 And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this? or why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk?

Notice, Peter didn't say, "Let me pray for you.", and then begin asking and begging God to heal the beggar. NO! Peter understood what resided deep within himself. He said, "Silver and gold have I none; but such AS I HAVE give I thee..." Peter knew that the power was his to release, in the name and authority of Jesus. Today, we'd gather around the poor man and beg God to heal him. Meanwhile God is in Heaven saying, "I gave YOU the my power to heal him!" I sometimes wonder if those who are healed as a result of these "beggar's prayers" are healed in spite of us. Some have told me that they just don't believe God would entrust us with such power.

Now, I'm going to return to the issue of Elisha's bones, the "virtue" (the word is "dunamis", or "power") that healed the woman who touched his garment, and the handkerchiefs taken from Paul's aprons that healed and delivered the people... I believe that this power is residual. The invisible things of God are known by the things that are seen. The universe itself reveals much about His power and divinity. In nature, some things are radio active. They effect the molecular structure of a thing and leave residual traces of their presence. The power of God is much the same. As Paul worked to support himself and his ministry, he toiled throughout the day wearing various aprons and garments. While working by the sweat of his brow, no doubt he prayed and communed with God. I believe Paul was so full of the Holy Spirit and power that this anointing was transferred in part to the clothes he wore. And I do believe that for a time, those who came into contact with those handkerchiefs were healed and delivered. Now, certainly after some time, the power within those handkerchiefs would be depleted. It is this power that was resident in Elisha's bones, departed from Christ through His garment, and was transferred to the clothing that Paul wore. I believe the power of God is very real and is effectual... if one with proper authority knows how to use it. Understanding this power, how it is activated through faith, and our authority to use it is key to unlocking various gifts of the Spirit too.

You might disagree with some, or perhaps even all, of this. And that's cool. In 10 years, I might disagree with it too. That's because I'm still studying and my understanding is constantly evolving. And I've come to call upon the power of God in my prayer life. And the results have been such that I've shared it with a couple others... and they have also been rather surprised with the results. God is real. His power is real. And the very Holy Spirit that resides in us brings with it this power. I fear we've just been too religious to understand it. And then there are those precious souls who are truly "afraid" of this power. They feel safe as powerless beggars. And bless their hearts, that's okay. However, I believe that the fullness of God's desire for us is that we walk in the Spirit and demonstrate His power to a lost and dying world.

Re: Happy Valentine's Day! A look at Valentine's D
 

God is limitless in power. God's power is a part of His very being, just as heat and light emanates from the sun. And the power residing in us originates from the very Spirit of God Himself, who indwells us. I believe God has granted us authority to use this power in accordance with our faith, through the name of Jesus. I do believe that this power can be activated by faith and used at will. In my example above, Peter didn't beg God to heal the lame man. Peter unleashed the power and the man was healed. Being a part of God's own being, this power cannot be used outside of the will and mind of God. For example, if it wasn't God's intention to heal the lame man at the gate of the temple, nothing would have happened. However, if one has the mind of Christ and is in tune with the leading of the Holy Spirit, one will know when to properly use the power with effectual results, thereby presenting the demonstration of the Spirit and power of the Holy Ghost.

Amen.

Amen. I believe there is more to the subject of angelic power and ability, but that is another topic entirely.

Amen.

I disagree here.

I believe there is the power of God... and there is magik (aka sorcery, witchcraft, magic, etc.). The two are not the same.

The power of God is an essential part of His being and nature. It is through this power that God executes His will supernaturally. It is limitless. It is unfading. It is pure and holy. It is associated with the presence of His Holy Spirit. And when employed by those granted the authority through Christ, it only operates in conjunction with His will.

Magic is different. Magic is an energy that originates from another source other than God. Whether it be the human spirit (psychic phenomena), demonic spirits (channeling), or some ambient energy of the universe (witchcraft). It is not limitless. It is fading. It isn't pure and holy. It isn't strictly associated with God's Holy Spirit. It is the energy behind false miracles, signs, and wonders. Use of this energy is forbidden.

I believe that the Egyptian sorcerers engaged in sorcery. Moses and Aaron used the power of God granted to them by God Himself. And, being of a divine nature, limitless, and unfading... it produced an effect that consumed the sorcery of the sorcerers. Unholy, pagan, sorcerers cannot access and use God's power. They might desire to access this power, even offering money for it, but it is not open to them (Acts 8:19).

I'll comment on Mark 9:38-40 in my next post.

We might disagree on some things. But certainly talking about what we do believe can help us understand one another and where we're coming from. I'm enjoying the conversation.

Re: Happy Valentine's Day! A look at Valentine's D
 

I take a different understanding of it. I'll start by sharing the passage:

Mark 9:38-40
38 And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.
39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.
40 For he that is not against us is on our part.

In your post above, you stated:

I don't get that this man was not a follower of Jesus. In fact, let's look at the pronouns:

"And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us." (Mark 9:38

I believe the "us" is the "we" in this verse. In other words... the disciples saw a man who was casting out devils in the name of Jesus, who wasn't one of the appointed 12. And because this man wasn't a part of the appointed 12, they forbad him.

Also, the disciples state that the man was "casting out devils". Let's see what happens to those who try to cast out devils in Christ's name when they are not followers of Christ:

Acts 19:13-16
13 Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the Lord Jesus, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth.
14 And there were seven sons of one Sceva, a Jew, and chief of the priests, which did so.
15 And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye?
16 And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded.

These vagabond Jewish exorcists tried casting out an evil spirit in the name of Jesus, while not being followers of Jesus. The evil spirit was rather explicit:

"And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye?" (Acts 19:15)

And then... it beat them senseless. :lol

We don't see this happening to the stranger that the disciples encountered. Now, the disciples had already experienced casting out devils (Mark 6:13). So, they were no strangers to casting out evil spirits. When talking about this man, they attest to the fact that he was indeed "casting out devils". And he was obviously so successful that they had to forbid him, because he wasn't one of the appointed 12.

I think Jesus preached, fed the five thousand, healed the sick, cast out devils, etc. throughout Judea. I think this man was someone who had personally witnessed, and maybe had even personally experienced, the power of Jesus. And he was clearly fired up. The only problem was... he wasn't UPCI. Oh, wait... he wasn't an appointed deacon of the Apostolic Church of Anyplace. Oh wait, that's not right. He only had a partial understanding, he hadn't personally fellowshipped with Jesus and heard the deeper truths that Jesus had shared with the 12.

Yet Jesus doesn't praise them or say, "Good job guys. That guy was out of order!" Nope. Jesus smiles and says, "Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me. For he that is not against us is on our part."

In other words, "Don't tell this man to stop. There isn't anyone working miracles in my name who isn't ultimately my friend. If he’s not an enemy, he’s an ally."

To me, it's reminiscent of something that is recorded way back in Numbers 11....

Numbers 11:24-29
24 And Moses went out, and told the people the words of the Lord, and gathered the seventy men of the elders of the people, and set them round about the tabernacle.
25 And the Lord came down in a cloud, and spake unto him, and took of the spirit that was upon him, and gave it unto the seventy elders: and it came to pass, that, when the spirit rested upon them, they prophesied, and did not cease.
26 But there remained two of the men in the camp, the name of the one was Eldad, and the name of the other Medad: and the spirit rested upon them; and they were of them that were written, but went not out unto the tabernacle: and they prophesied in the camp.
27 And there ran a young man, and told Moses, and said, Eldad and Medad do prophesy in the camp.
28 And Joshua the son of Nun, the servant of Moses, one of his young men, answered and said, My lord Moses, forbid them.
29 And Moses said unto him, Enviest thou for my sake? would God that all the Lord'S people were prophets, and that the Lord would put his spirit upon them!

I'm surprised Jesus didn't say, "Would God that all the Lord's people were casting out devils".

That's my understanding.

For us, this teaches us not to be so sectarian. We put down, rebuke, chastise, criticize, and forbid anyone doing anything for Jesus through the power and authority of His name if they don't agree with our dogmas, attend our organizations, embrace all of our understandings, use different terminologies, employ different methods, or don't so much as dress like us! LOL I see Jesus correcting this misguided zeal and spiritual immaturity here. If someone is advancing the kingdom of God through actions in the name of Jesus... while some differences might exist between us and they... they aren't enemies.

Oh that more of us could grasp this and walk in the fullness of spiritual maturity that we might cease cutting down those who aren't directly associated with us, our churches, or organizations, or dogmas.

This isn't an elite club. And knowing Jesus personally through the Spirit is more important than knowing every nuance of doctrine about Him.