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-   -   Would you ever choose "not to preach against sin"? (https://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=5269)

Lost 06-22-2007 12:26 PM

Would you ever choose "not to preach against sin"?
 
If preaching against homosexuality ever became a “hate crime” punishable by imprisonment, would you ever choose “not to preach” against homosexuality or some other sin(s) - to be able to continue to preach the Good News – Acts 2:38 message to more souls?

What say ye?

berkeley 06-22-2007 12:27 PM

Where's my shackles? I'll wear them proudly.

Chan 06-22-2007 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lost (Post 164771)
If preaching against homosexuality ever became a “hate crime” punishable by imprisonment, would you ever choose “not to preach” against homosexuality or some other sin(s) - to be able to continue to preach the Good News – Acts 2:38 message to more souls?

What say ye?

I don't like the answers in the poll. You are creating a false dichotomy because part of preaching the gospel necessitates preaching against sin. After all, how are you going to help people understand the need to repent if you don't tell them about sin?

Esther 06-22-2007 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chan (Post 164796)
I don't like the answers in the poll. You are creating a false dichotomy because part of preaching the gospel necessitates preaching against sin. After all, how are you going to help people understand the need to repent if you don't tell them about sin?

Good point.

Lost 06-22-2007 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chan (Post 164796)
I don't like the answers in the poll. You are creating a false dichotomy because part of preaching the gospel necessitates preaching against sin. After all, how are you going to help people understand the need to repent if you don't tell them about sin?

A necessity that pastors and preachers will need to carefully consider in the near future. It isn't a "false dichotomy", it is a future reality eventually to be faced.

One will either forfeit the aspect of preaching against "some sins" or forfeit their right to openly preach. They would then be forced to trade their shirt and tie for the ole' ball-n-chain.

So, does one continue preaching the Apostolic message - Acts 2:38 message and just say that the Spirit will help lead you into all righteousness? Or do they keep the Gospel message - Holiness preaching packaged together, for a potentially much shorter time (at the cost of exposing less people to the Word)?

Chan 06-22-2007 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lost (Post 164813)
A necessity that pastors and preachers will need to carefully consider in the near future. It isn't a "false dichotomy", it is a future reality eventually to be faced.

One will either forfeit the aspect of preaching against "some sins" or forfeit their right to openly preach. They would then be forced to trade their shirt and tie for the ole' ball-n-chain.

So, does one continue preaching the Apostolic message - Acts 2:38 message and just say that the Spirit will help lead you into all righteousness? Or do they keep the Gospel message - Holiness preaching packaged together, for a potentially much shorter time (at the cost of exposing less people to the Word)?

One is not preaching the gospel if the message does not also include preaching against sin.

Lost 06-22-2007 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chan (Post 164851)
One is not preaching the gospel if the message does not also include preaching against sin.

Yet why doesn't happen more in today's churches? There are things I've seen in saints and young people in the last several years that I wouldn't have even dared thinking about, much less do, growing up. Saints, by the bus-load, are acting, looking, and talking like the world more than they ever have before.

Are preachers trying to make the message more palatable by taking the "bite" out of the Bible?

Either preachers aren't preaching it, saints aren't living it, or a combination of both. Why?

ReformedDave 06-22-2007 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chan (Post 164851)
One is not preaching the gospel if the message does not also include preaching against sin.

100% right on. Got to have the bad news so the good news will be 'good'.

Malvaro 06-22-2007 02:10 PM

Lost, go listen to Ray Comfort's message.... Hell's Best Kept Secret....

it will give you a bit more perspective regarding the matter....

Chan 06-22-2007 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lost (Post 164872)
Yet why doesn't happen more in today's churches?

Well, there is that passage in one of the letters to Timothy about tickling ears.

Quote:

There are things I've seen in saints and young people in the last several years that I wouldn't have even dared thinking about, much less do, growing up. Saints, by the bus-load, are acting, looking, and talking like the world more than they ever have before.
And it's going to get worse; but guess what: if they're living like the world and adopting the world's values, they're not saints.

Quote:

Are preachers trying to make the message more palatable by taking the "bite" out of the Bible?
Go back to my "tickling ears" comment.

Quote:

Either preachers aren't preaching it, saints aren't living it, or a combination of both. Why?
It's both and the reason why it's that way is that too much of the Church has become corrupted by the world. We try to conform the Bible to the values of the world and try to make excuses as to why particular commands or principles in the New Testament just can't possibly be applied to us today. Two examples of what I'm talking about are the way some Christians don't take the Creation account in Genesis literally (and, in so doing, they're accommodating evolution) and the way so much of the Church today has brought wicked worldly philosophies like psychology into the Church (actually, all worldly philosophies are wicked simply because they're of the world).

Lost 06-22-2007 02:33 PM

Chan, very good comments!

You have revealed the points that I created this thread to make. The Good News cannot be seperated from Holiness preaching, and yet we stand here bearing witness to the fact that it's actually happening in our churches today.

This should not happen in our churches, yet it is happening!!!

Scott Hutchinson 06-22-2007 05:05 PM

As a Christian Minister I'm supposed to warn folks to flee the wrath to come ,and the wages of sin is death.
But I only preach what the Bible calls sin.

Hoovie 06-22-2007 07:21 PM

After some thought I decided to vote

"Maybe, I’d have to pray a lot about it."

There are certain times for things - depending on many situations and the people being addressed etc.

I may choose not to condemn in a particular instance to let the message of God's love work first.

jwharv 06-22-2007 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chan (Post 164796)
I don't like the answers in the poll. You are creating a false dichotomy because part of preaching the gospel necessitates preaching against sin. After all, how are you going to help people understand the need to repent if you don't tell them about sin?

I agree................

How can you spread the Gospel and not preach against sin?

Pressing-On 06-22-2007 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lost (Post 164771)
If preaching against homosexuality ever became a “hate crime” punishable by imprisonment, would you ever choose “not to preach” against homosexuality or some other sin(s) - to be able to continue to preach the Good News – Acts 2:38 message to more souls?

What say ye?

I would never act stupid and say, "God made Adam and Eve - not Adam and Steve!"

Sheesh!

And yes, if I felt led to preach against it, I would.

I also agree with some of the other posters - you can't preach the Gospel without addressing sin. The Gospel delivers us from sin.

berkeley 06-22-2007 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pressing-On (Post 165497)
I would never act stupid and say, "God made Adam and Eve - not Adam and Steve!"

Sheesh!

And yes, if I felt led to preach against it, I would.

Are you a lady man of God?? :hmmm

Pressing-On 06-22-2007 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berkeley (Post 165498)
Are you a lady man of God?? :hmmm

Does it count if I preach to my husband every day?

:killinme

berkeley 06-22-2007 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pressing-On (Post 165505)
Does it count if I preach to my husband every day?

:killinme

* shrugs *

Pressing-On 06-23-2007 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berkeley (Post 165518)
* shrugs *

I don't have to pay dues that way. :killinme

Felicity 06-23-2007 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lost (Post 164771)
If preaching against homosexuality ever became a “hate crime” punishable by imprisonment, would you ever choose “not to preach” against homosexuality or some other sin(s) - to be able to continue to preach the Good News – Acts 2:38 message to more souls?

What say ye?

A scripture popped into my head when I read this post. Preaching the Gospel is all about winning souls to Jesus Christ.

In regard to soul winning Jesus said.......

Mat 10:16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

Go and learneth what that meaneth. :)

NLYP 06-23-2007 12:26 PM

The problem with this question comes into play with where lines are drawn as to what is sin. Some preach that things are "sin" that I personally would not go along with.
Many of our man made rules, traditions and "standards" are preached to the level of sin and with that I cannot go along.
As far as not preaching against Biblical sin for the cause of the Gospel...NO WAY.
BUT to stop preaching our version of some "holiness" issues for the sake of the Gospel...Absolutely!
We are in danger when we put our opinions and our convictions and our preferences and label them as sin and then broadbrush them as salvific mandates to a lost world.
No wonder we lose so many....but them we blame them and we should be blaming ourselves.

Brother Price 06-23-2007 12:34 PM

Jesus died for our sins. Which sins? What is sin? How do we sin? Without the answers to these questions, we cannot fully explain the Gospel.

Hoovie 06-23-2007 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brother Price (Post 165641)
Jesus died for our sins. Which sins? What is sin? How do we sin? Without the answers to these questions, we cannot fully explain the Gospel.

And the even the Gospel does not need FULL explanation for someone to understand that all have sinned, come short of the glory of God - but Jesus paid the debt in our stead through his blood. Seems to me, once Jesus comes in their heart the transition - if not automatic - becomes acceptable and first nature.

I have known people to repent and even become Spirit-filled before fully realizing that shacking up grieved the heart of God and was causing a wedge of separation from God.

Brother Price 06-23-2007 12:58 PM

But, many times, we must show people through the Word what the Lord declares as sin, so we can warn them not to do such.

Hoovie 06-23-2007 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brother Price (Post 165649)
But, many times, we must show people through the Word what the Lord declares as sin, so we can warn them not to do such.

Oh I agree, I was speaking of the initial contact of the gospel - and understood that to be the thrust of the question of the thread.

Hoovie 06-23-2007 01:04 PM

As far as not ever preaching against against sin - Forget it.

I am saying there are times one may forgo specifics to have greater influence - but that should not be the normal stance of any ministry/church.

crakjak 06-23-2007 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lost (Post 164771)
If preaching against homosexuality ever became a “hate crime” punishable by imprisonment, would you ever choose “not to preach” against homosexuality or some other sin(s) - to be able to continue to preach the Good News – Acts 2:38 message to more souls?

What say ye?

It will become increasingly difficult to minister the truth of the gospel as this culture becomes more and more secular. Also, as it becomes more and more infiltrated by other cultures.

I believe the gospel can be preached in power without offending just for the sake of itemizing specific sins. However, it is very difficult to disciple new converts without dealing with specific sin.

I have read the story of a Chinese pastor who was tortured and imprisoned over several years, he preached in hiding to begin with and then he preached openly every where that he went. He converted each prison that he was thrown into, including many guards and wardens. It was a very hard life, but his family was so poor their lives were very hard in any case. He eventually walked out of prison and out of China as God literally opened the doors for him. So we must be true ministers of the gospel no matter that the powers that rule dictate otherwise.

NLYP 06-23-2007 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NLYP (Post 165638)
The problem with this question comes into play with where lines are drawn as to what is sin. Some preach that things are "sin" that I personally would not go along with.
Many of our man made rules, traditions and "standards" are preached to the level of sin and with that I cannot go along.
As far as not preaching against Biblical sin for the cause of the Gospel...NO WAY.
BUT to stop preaching our version of some "holiness" issues for the sake of the Gospel...Absolutely!
We are in danger when we put our opinions and our convictions and our preferences and label them as sin and then broadbrush them as salvific mandates to a lost world.
No wonder we lose so many....but them we blame them and we should be blaming ourselves.

bump

philjones 06-23-2007 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NLYP (Post 165638)
The problem with this question comes into play with where lines are drawn as to what is sin. Some preach that things are "sin" that I personally would not go along with.
Many of our man made rules, traditions and "standards" are preached to the level of sin and with that I cannot go along.
As far as not preaching against Biblical sin for the cause of the Gospel...NO WAY.
BUT to stop preaching our version of some "holiness" issues for the sake of the Gospel...Absolutely!
We are in danger when we put our opinions and our convictions and our preferences and label them as sin and then broadbrush them as salvific mandates to a lost world.
No wonder we lose so many....but them we blame them and we should be blaming ourselves.

So Dano, what is your explanation why the Baptists and Methodists and Episcopal and others lose so many?

NLYP 06-23-2007 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philjones (Post 165750)
So Dano, what is your explanation why the Baptists and Methodists and Episcopal and others lose so many?

Thats EASY!!!!!!!
Th natural hunger of the human soul to experience Pentecost and have the Holy Ghost set up residency in their hearts.
The Baptist, Methodists and Episcopals are folks that have religion but desire relationship.....they lose their members to us...and we in turn lose them to the Charismatics, which is a crying shame.
They offer "Holy Ghost" without all the strings attached.......
That is why the Charismatic movement is THE fastest growing movement in the world.
We have the truth...no doubt.....but we also have tooooo many strings.
Folks dont want strings...so they look for an alternative.

You certainly dont hear of many leaving the charismatic movement.

NLYP 06-24-2007 11:05 PM

Bump for Phil Jones

Rico 06-25-2007 01:46 AM

This thread reminds me of something I experienced a few years ago. It wasn't very long after I had left the ultra conservative church I had been attending for several years. I ended up going to a UPC church in Terre Haute, IN, pastored by Simeon Young Sr. and Jr. Anyway, I had been going to this new church for a few months and had yet to hear either pastor preach a message dealing specifically with sin. Well, Pastor Young, Sr. got up one night and preached on sin. What happened, as a result of that message, forever changed the way I look at preaching against sin.

Anyway, Brother Young preached his message on sin using several scriptures. Being used to the preacher specifically naming sin "A" or sin "B" I was waiting for him to take that extra step of informing us of what sin he was actually preaching against. Needless to say I was very disappointed when nothing specific came from him.

I got home, still thinking about how the service had gone, and how disappointed I was in how it ended. Before going to sleep that night I prayed about the message I had heard, which was my custom at the time, and an interesting thing happened. The Lord added the missing piece I thought should have come from the pastor during his preaching! He showed me Himself what it was I needed to repent of and change in my life! For the first time I got a glimpse of how the ministry, the Holy Ghost, and the willing heart of a saint are supposed to work together to accomplish what God sets out to do when He lays a message on the heart of a preacher.

As I said, it has forever changed how I look at preachers preaching against sin. Preachers don't have to name it and then preach against it for their preaching to be effective. I am not saying that there's never a time when it's appropriate for a preacher to name sin specifically from the pulpit, but I have seen where it isn't necessary all the time. We don't have to have every little detail spelled out for us for this thing to work. We just need to lean on Jesus and His ability to finish what He starts.

I said all that to say this-No, I don't think it's necessary for preachers to get specific in their preaching against sin. God is more than able to show us the sin in our lives, without the preacher having to get specific from the pulpit. So, it really shouldn't matter if laws get passed against preaching against homosexuality. The church is gonna go forward regardless.


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