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Esaias 03-22-2019 11:54 PM

Planned Destruction of Civilisation
 
1 Attachment(s)
Attached to this post is a PDF copy of "The Jaffe Memo". It is a chart of proposed courses of action to manage the population, by Frederick Jaffe of Planned Parenthood, in 1969. Simply reading the chart you will see the true reasons and motivations behind numerous ClownWorld stage productions we are being forced to endure, like the whole LGBTQ thing, abortion, etc. The policy proposals can be seen to be in place and running by various segments of society, especially via the media, magazines, music, Hollywood, etc, as well as well funded legal challenges, election campaigns, and government policy decisions, legislation, court decisions, etc. It can also be seen being implemented by large corporate interests (businesses, HR departments, social media giants, etc). Everybody, it seems, is on board with the program.

Which PROVES it is an agenda, a goal, shared by LOTS OF INFLUENTIAL ORGANISATIONS AND PEOPLE, and that they are LYING TO YOU and trying to cover up what they are really about. Which in turn means simply that a powerful alliance is arrayed against you intent on destroying you and your offspring, and that society has been subverted and is NOT what you are led to believe it is, nor are things happening for the reasons you are told (or want to believe). The idea that society is being wrecked by "idiot liberals who just don't know what they're doing because they're dumb" is A LIE. These people know EXACTLY what they are doing, and SO DO THEIR SO CALLED "CONSERVATIVE OPPONENTS" who have you hoodwinked and chasing dead end rabbit trails while ensuring the AGENDA GOES FORWARD NO MATTER WHAT.

https://i2.wp.com/jaffememo.com/wp-c...zoom=1.5&w=584

Esaias 03-23-2019 03:27 AM

Re: Planned Destruction of Civilisation
 
So, once the realisation is made as to what's going on, and the scope of the agenda, the question is "What do I do about it?"

Subversion artists masquerading as religious leaders would dupe you into thinking there's nothing you can do, and that there's nothing that will be done, just wait for the rapture. Or just keep doing your thing (putting your money and productivity into the economy, maintaining your financial support of the very system trying to enslave and destroy you) and wait to die and go to heaven. These types of solutions, carefully crafted as "prophecy teaching" and "separation from the world" teachings, come in a variety of forms but are all designed to accomplish a simple goal: neutralise you and get you to do essentially nothing genuinely productive.

The truth is, there are solutions. They aren't very glamourous and don't provide instant success, take a lot of effort and dedication, and therefore aren't popular. But those who DO put in the effort will be advancing things in a positive direction, while the lazy and apathetic will simply circle the drain into oblivion over the next several generations.

Also, it must be realized that you personally probably aren't going to save civilisation single handedly. But individuals doing their thing to move things forward combine to a corporate or collective movement that gets things done on a larger scale. There are several layers involved: personal, family, church, community, nation. Each one builds on the layer beneath it. There can be no national reformation without a prior reformation in communities, which depend on reformation in local churches, which depends on reformation in families and individuals' lives.

So, here's a step by step starter plan to save civilization and advance the Kingdom of God:

1. Individual reformation.
Get your life lined up with God's KINGDOM. Seek FIRST the Kingdom of God (His Dominion, reign, rulership) and His righteousness (His justice, His ways of thinking and doing things, as spelled out in His Word). Start regulating your life, all areas, by the Word. Your financial decisions, lifestyle, how you raise your kids, etc.

2. Family reformation.
Reform your household to live by the Word. Got kids? If at home, they must live by the Word, no other options possible, period, end of discussion. Husbands need to take the lead, "as for me AND MY HOUSE, we WILL serve the Lord." Everything must be submitted to the Word. The world and its ideas about child raising, education, job and career, must be rejected in favor of the will of God.

3. Church reformation. The local assembly must be on board with building godly, Christ honouring, Word directed families. Influence the assembly by praying, as well as by speaking to leadership. Exhort one another to good works (obedience to the Word). BE an example of a family directed by the Word. If your assembly is focused on liberal "social justice" agendas, or stupid entertainments for securing positive cash flow, and isn't willing to get serious about God and the Word and dealing with the times we live in, then BEAT FEET. Find brethren who are on the same page. It is SUICIDE to continue supporting that which is part of the problem. Starve the beast, as they say. A church that will not strengthen families to genuinely live for God, that desires to spend it's time playing patty cake while the world burns down around it, is not a church that deserves your money or attendance. It is, in fact, a direct threat to the souls of your children.

4. Community reformation. Get involved. Speak with the enemies in the gates. Go to town halls, commissioner court meetings, city hall meetings, etc, and speak. But speak for Christ and His Word. Seek opportunities to speak to neighbors. Seek opportunities to get involved in a positive, helpful way with neighbours' lives. Don't just be a pulpiteer, but put faith into action. Churches need to be doing this, not just individuals.

This is what will lead to national reformation. This is what it means "if my people, which are called by my name, will humble themselves, and repent... then I will heal their land."

In succeeding posts I would like to dig deeper into more specific ways of doing this. Input appreciated.

Esaias 03-23-2019 03:36 AM

Re: Planned Destruction of Civilisation
 
Some additional starter information is here, in this thread: http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...ad.php?t=53027

It contains information that will help the reader understand in what direction reformation (personal, family, church, community, etc) needs to go, and practical tips on getting it done.

coksiw 03-23-2019 08:25 AM

Re: Planned Destruction of Civilisation
 
That's crazy, I couldn't believe. If you are curious, this is the original paper: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0K...cxai1OME0/view

Evang.Benincasa 03-23-2019 11:46 AM

Re: Planned Destruction of Civilisation
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias (Post 1560373)
So, once the realisation is made as to what's going on, and the scope of the agenda, the question is "What do I do about it?"

Subversion artists masquerading as religious leaders would dupe you into thinking there's nothing you can do, and that there's nothing that will be done, just wait for the rapture. Or just keep doing your thing (putting your money and productivity into the economy, maintaining your financial support of the very system trying to enslave and destroy you) and wait to die and go to heaven. These types of solutions, carefully crafted as "prophecy teaching" and "separation from the world" teachings, come in a variety of forms but are all designed to accomplish a simple goal: neutralise you and get you to do essentially nothing genuinely productive.

The truth is, there are solutions. They aren't very glamourous and don't provide instant success, take a lot of effort and dedication, and therefore aren't popular. But those who DO put in the effort will be advancing things in a positive direction, while the lazy and apathetic will simply circle the drain into oblivion over the next several generations.

Also, it must be realized that you personally probably aren't going to save civilisation single handedly. But individuals doing their thing to move things forward combine to a corporate or collective movement that gets things done on a larger scale. There are several layers involved: personal, family, church, community, nation. Each one builds on the layer beneath it. There can be no national reformation without a prior reformation in communities, which depend on reformation in local churches, which depends on reformation in families and individuals' lives.

So, here's a step by step starter plan to save civilization and advance the Kingdom of God:

1. Individual reformation.
Get your life lined up with God's KINGDOM. Seek FIRST the Kingdom of God (His Dominion, reign, rulership) and His righteousness (His justice, His ways of thinking and doing things, as spelled out in His Word). Start regulating your life, all areas, by the Word. Your financial decisions, lifestyle, how you raise your kids, etc.

2. Family reformation.
Reform your household to live by the Word. Got kids? If at home, they must live by the Word, no other options possible, period, end of discussion. Husbands need to take the lead, "as for me AND MY HOUSE, we WILL serve the Lord." Everything must be submitted to the Word. The world and its ideas about child raising, education, job and career, must be rejected in favor of the will of God.

3. Church reformation. The local assembly must be on board with building godly, Christ honouring, Word directed families. Influence the assembly by praying, as well as by speaking to leadership. Exhort one another to good works (obedience to the Word). BE an example of a family directed by the Word. If your assembly is focused on liberal "social justice" agendas, or stupid entertainments for securing positive cash flow, and isn't willing to get serious about God and the Word and dealing with the times we live in, then BEAT FEET. Find brethren who are on the same page. It is SUICIDE to continue supporting that which is part of the problem. Starve the beast, as they say. A church that will not strengthen families to genuinely live for God, that desires to spend it's time playing patty cake while the world burns down around it, is not a church that deserves your money or attendance. It is, in fact, a direct threat to the souls of your children.

4. Community reformation. Get involved. Speak with the enemies in the gates. Go to town halls, commissioner court meetings, city hall meetings, etc, and speak. But speak for Christ and His Word. Seek opportunities to speak to neighbors. Seek opportunities to get involved in a positive, helpful way with neighbours' lives. Don't just be a pulpiteer, but put faith into action. Churches need to be doing this, not just individuals.

This is what will lead to national reformation. This is what it means "if my people, which are called by my name, will humble themselves, and repent... then I will heal their land."

In succeeding posts I would like to dig deeper into more specific ways of doing this. Input appreciated.

:thumbsup

Evang.Benincasa 03-23-2019 09:16 PM

Re: Planned Destruction of Civilisation
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias (Post 1560373)
Subversion artists masquerading as religious leaders would dupe you into thinking there's nothing you can do, and that there's nothing that will be done, just wait for the rapture. Or just keep doing your thing (putting your money and productivity into the economy, maintaining your financial support of the very system trying to enslave and destroy you) and wait to die and go to heaven. These types of solutions, carefully crafted as "prophecy teaching" and "separation from the world" teachings, come in a variety of forms but are all designed to accomplish a simple goal: neutralise you and get you to do essentially nothing genuinely productive.

When a people have the barbarians at the gate, and they believe it is a manifest destiny of God. They won't put up a fight. They will just look up and wait for the mother ship to beam them up.

Esaias 03-23-2019 09:51 PM

Re: Planned Destruction of Civilisation
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa (Post 1560399)
When a people have the barbarians at the gate, and they believe it is a manifest destiny of God. They won't put up a fight. They will just look up and wait for the mother ship to beam them up.

Exactly. The Mayans were conquered without much of a fight because the Mayans believed it was "divine destiny" for the Spaniards to conquer them. In fact, if I remember correctly, the Spaniards staged their arrival to mimick Mayan prophecies and religious beliefs, in order to better convince them resistance was futile.

diakonos 03-23-2019 10:49 PM

Re: Planned Destruction of Civilisation
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias (Post 1560400)
Exactly. The Mayans were conquered without much of a fight because the Mayans believed it was "divine destiny" for the Sapaniards to conquer them. In fact, if I remember correctly, the Spaniards staged their arrival to mimick Mayan prophecies and religious beliefs, in order to better convince them resistance was futile.

This sounds so wrong.

Esaias 03-23-2019 11:45 PM

Re: Planned Destruction of Civilisation
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by diakonos (Post 1560401)
This sounds so wrong.

The way I understood it, the Mayans believed their god Quetzalcoatl would return from the eastern sea and that would be the end of their civilization. The Spaniards learned this from neighboring tribes, so they made a big public landing at the sea shore in full armour, riding horses off the ships through the surf onto the shore and marching straight at their capital city. The shining armor, horses, and plumed helmets convinced the Mayans that Quetzalcoatl and his divine retinue had arrived, thus they surrendered without a fight.

That's the way I remember the history. Of course, since we've gone long last 1984 (!), I'm sure the official story is now something different.

But, the application to today should not be missed. It makes perfect sense to use someone's religious beliefs against them if you plan on subverting and conquering them. "Resistance is futile, you will be absorbed."

Esaias 03-24-2019 12:11 AM

Re: Planned Destruction of Civilisation
 
1. Individual reformation. Get your life lined up with God's KINGDOM. Seek FIRST the Kingdom of God (His Dominion, reign, rulership) and His righteousness (His justice, His ways of thinking and doing things, as spelled out in His Word). Start regulating your life, all areas, by the Word. Your financial decisions, lifestyle, how you raise your kids, etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias (Post 1560374)
Some additional starter information is here, in this thread: http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...ad.php?t=53027

It contains information that will help the reader understand in what direction reformation (personal, family, church, community, etc) needs to go, and practical tips on getting it done.

The reason I linked to that thread was to avoid duplicating the posts in that thread here. The linked discussion covers a bit of necessary understanding concerning what exactly we're supposed to be doing as Christians, what our purpose is. I will copy a small segment here, though, because it gets to the heart of the matter:


If the church considers it's mission to simply "get folks saved so they can make heaven their home" then the church is woefully failing in it's primary mission. The Great Commission charges the church with teaching the nations to OBEY CHRIST IN ALL THINGS, not getting them to "join the church" and pass their time waiting for death or a rapture. Our kingship is a priestly kingship, modelled on Christ's, His being of the order of Melchizedek, who was both a priest and a king. Therefore, our reigning includes mediatorial priest duties. And the priest's job description includes that of teaching the Law (the Word of God) to the people, and promoting obedience.

So it is time we start looking into just what exactly is involved in the authority we have been given as kings and priests, HERE AND NOW, and begin to act accordingly. ... we need to work out the salvation we have been given, that is to say, we need to begin to manifest the salvation God has made available for us so the nations will see and hear and submit to God.

We have a purpose. Too many people do not understand what their purpose is, or they may have an intellectual concept of it but have not started living for that purpose. Our purpose is to advance the Kingdom of God. This is not done simply by telling people about Jesus and telling them to get saved and join our church, and then spending the rest of their lives just being "good people" and putting money in the offering plate and warming a pew.

The Kingdom advancing involves the life of God manifesting through us in all we do. Jesus is the WORD MADE FLESH, He is GOD MANIFEST IN FLESH. We are to be conformed to His likeness, to be like Him. God desires to manifest Himself in and through us. That means His ways, His righteousness, His morals and ethics, His truth, His power, His reality, demonstrated to the world through us, through YOU. This requires a wholesale conformity of your thinking, your thought processes, your worldview, your attitude, your opinions, your beliefs, your decisions, your choices, your lifestyle, your finances, your goals, your living arrangements, your career, your activities, EVERYTHING must be conformed to the Word of God, so that it is no longer you living your life, but Christ living His life in and through you.

This is the seldom preached and seldom understood doctrine of God-Manifestation.

Your purpose is God-Manifestation. Your purpose is to be a walking, talking, living manifestation of the nature, character, power, and presence of Almighty God. THIS is how God has chosen to reveal Himself to the nations of mankind. And you are called to be a part of that programme of Divine Revelation. And moreover, this God-Manifestation is eminently practical. It doesn't involve kooky "Latter Rain" or "new apostolic reformation" LARPing or fantasy world play acting. It involves people actually living out the Word of God by the Spirit.

Esaias 03-24-2019 12:39 AM

Re: Planned Destruction of Civilisation
 
What does it mean to seek first the Kingdom of God and His righteousness?

What is His righteousness?


My tongue shall speak of thy word:
For all thy commandments are righteousness. Psalm 119:172

The commandments of God are righteousness. They detail and demonstrate what God's righteousness looks like. To seek first the Kingdom of God and His righteousness means to make our number one priority the Dominion and Rule of God, according to and as explained by His commandments. It means our object in life is to "fear God and keep His commandments" (Eccl 12:13), and we are to desire and work towards seeing the dominion of God over all things. We are told to pray "Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven." We are instructed to be praying for and working for the Will of God to be done in the earth, as it is done in heaven. The goal we're supposed to be aiming at is God's Rule extending throughout the earth. His will being done in the earth looks like His commandments being obeyed sincerely, out of love to our Father.

This is not legalism, or "justification by works", or "going back under the law", but rather it is establishing the law BY FAITH (Romans 3:31). Having been pardoned of our transgressions, and receiving empowerment by the Holy Ghost, we are to be living life in accordance with the commandments of God (1 John 2:1-5). We have not been saved so that we may continue living in violation of His Will as expressed by His Word. Rather, we have been saved so that He can live out His ways through us.

The commandments of God, as expressed throughout the Word (from Genesis to Revelation), cover every aspect of life. Every aspect of our life is to thus be regulated by the Word. Every aspect of our life will be regulated by something, it might as well be by the Word.

Esaias 03-24-2019 03:40 AM

Re: Planned Destruction of Civilisation
 
Last sentence of second paragraph above should read "...out of LOVE to our Father", not "live". Caught it too late to edit.

Michael The Disciple 03-24-2019 07:02 AM

Re: Planned Destruction of Civilisation
 
Esaias,

I agree with what you are teaching here. Very few Churches have this kind of vision. Yet I dont see how ALSO teaching what the Bible DOES say about having an endtime mindset is wrong.

Remember the New Testament was given to conquered people, living under nations with no Constitution and no democracy. They had no freedom to attend civic meetings and spread the gospel.

They DID embrace the law of Christ and put him above all else. The Apostles seemed to have taught them to live in full obedience to Christ and submit (when possible) to the kings and governers of their lands.

They were to live as the children of light in a dark world who had a desire and love for the coming of Jesus again to bring their "full" salvation.

Evang.Benincasa 03-24-2019 07:08 AM

Re: Planned Destruction of Civilisation
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias (Post 1560405)
Last sentence of second paragraph above should read "...out of LOVE to our Father", not "live". Caught it too late to edit.

You mentioned a very powerful point to another poster in the Matthew 28:19 thread. It was concerning the love for a wife. Let me give my opinion on that post. A man gets news that his wife committed adultery. Instead of guilty until proven innocent, his love for his wife inpowers him to do everything to find the truth. We are in love with Jesus Christ, not a doctrine, not an organization, church fellowship, or group. We love Him because He loved us first. Our love for Him is to please Him, even if it costs us everything we own. People at times may think our love is too excessive, and precise that we aren't being given the same amount of love as we are giving out. But we know our love for Jesus Christ can never be enough, because we understand what He does for us on the daily. Follow me as I follow Christ, the apostle told his church family. Jesus sets the example of righteousness. No matter what goes on in this amazingly crippled world in which we live. We must hold on to the works which are created through Jesus Christ's Grace towards us. We can do all things through Christ who makes us strong.

Evang.Benincasa 03-24-2019 07:19 AM

Re: Planned Destruction of Civilisation
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple (Post 1560407)
The Apostles seemed to have taught them to live in full obedience to Christ and submit (when possible) to the kings and governers of their lands.

It says when possible?

Proverbs 8:15, Proverbs 24:21, Daniel 2:21,
Daniel 4:17, John 19:11, Romans 13:1, 1 Timothy 2:2, Titus 3:1, and 1 Peter 2:13. Where is your stipulation? Where does it say submit if possible? You are therefore making that submission debatable? Where we are given a choice? Yet, Daniel tells a dictator (Nebuchadnezzar) live forever king. If they didn't worship the idols that the king set up, they were more than willing to take the consequences which would speedily follow.

derAlte 03-24-2019 08:12 AM

Re: Planned Destruction of Civilisation
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa (Post 1560408)
You mentioned a very powerful point to another poster in the Matthew 28:19 thread. It was concerning the love for a wife. Let me give my opinion on that post. A man gets news that his wife committed adultery. Instead of guilty until proven innocent, his love for his wife inpowers him to do everything to find the truth. We are in love with Jesus Christ, not a doctrine, not an organization, church fellowship, or group. We love Him because He loved us first. Our love for Him is to please Him, even if it costs us everything we own. People at times may think our love is too excessive, and precise that we aren't being given the same amount of love as we are giving out. But we know our love for Jesus Christ can never be enough, because we understand what He does for us on the daily. Follow me as I follow Christ, the apostle told his church family. Jesus sets the example of righteousness. No matter what goes on in this amazingly crippled world in which we live. We must hold on to the works which are created through Jesus Christ's Grace towards us. We can do all things through Christ who makes us strong.

Well put, Sir!

Michael The Disciple 03-24-2019 09:02 AM

Re: Planned Destruction of Civilisation
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa (Post 1560410)
It says when possible?

Proverbs 8:15, Proverbs 24:21, Daniel 2:21,
Daniel 4:17, John 19:11, Romans 13:1, 1 Timothy 2:2, Titus 3:1, and 1 Peter 2:13. Where is your stipulation? Where does it say submit if possible? You are therefore making that submission debatable? Where we are given a choice? Yet, Daniel tells a dictator (Nebuchadnezzar) live forever king. If they didn't worship the idols that the king set up, they were more than willing to take the consequences which would speedily follow.

Are you saying one should sin if the state tells them to?

Evang.Benincasa 03-24-2019 09:09 AM

Re: Planned Destruction of Civilisation
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple (Post 1560418)
Are you saying one should sin if the state tells them to?

Do you ever deal with what is posted to you?
Or do you simply make it a practice to skim my post.
Read what I posted and deal with its content.
Thank you.

Michael The Disciple 03-24-2019 09:28 AM

Re: Planned Destruction of Civilisation
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa (Post 1560419)
Do you ever deal with what is posted to you?
Or do you simply make it a practice to skim my post.
Read what I posted and deal with its content.
Thank you.

I said the Apostles taught to obey Jesus and when possible to obey the state. You seem to be grasping to find something, anything to disagree with.

Ehud 03-24-2019 11:47 AM

Re: Planned Destruction of Civilisation
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple (Post 1560420)
I said the Apostles taught to obey Jesus and when possible to obey the state. You seem to be grasping to find something, anything to disagree with.

I doubt his issue is reading comprehension, but rather how you have phrased your position. I don't think you would get any argument about not bowing to idols if the state said to do so, but your wording implies the apostles taught some watered down version of obeying civil authorities. I, too, can think of no place this occurred and would love to see an example because I have no doubt I could be missing something.

Sometimes we take for granted that we are 'obviously not talking about that' -- whatever that may be -- but to those skimming and reviewing your post, I can see how one could misunderstand what you have said. "And when possible" could mean many different things to many different people.

Esaias 03-24-2019 01:20 PM

Re: Planned Destruction of Civilisation
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa (Post 1560408)
You mentioned a very powerful point to another poster in the Matthew 28:19 thread. It was concerning the love for a wife. Let me give my opinion on that post. A man gets news that his wife committed adultery. Instead of guilty until proven innocent, his love for his wife inpowers him to do everything to find the truth. We are in love with Jesus Christ, not a doctrine, not an organization, church fellowship, or group. We love Him because He loved us first. Our love for Him is to please Him, even if it costs us everything we own. People at times may think our love is too excessive, and precise that we aren't being given the same amount of love as we are giving out. But we know our love for Jesus Christ can never be enough, because we understand what He does for us on the daily. Follow me as I follow Christ, the apostle told his church family. Jesus sets the example of righteousness. No matter what goes on in this amazingly crippled world in which we live. We must hold on to the works which are created through Jesus Christ's Grace towards us. We can do all things through Christ who makes us strong.

:yourock

Esaias 03-24-2019 01:26 PM

Re: Planned Destruction of Civilisation
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple (Post 1560407)
Esaias,

I agree with what you are teaching here. Very few Churches have this kind of vision. Yet I dont see how ALSO teaching what the Bible DOES say about having an endtime mindset is wrong.

Remember the New Testament was given to conquered people, living under nations with no Constitution and no democracy. They had no freedom to attend civic meetings and spread the gospel.

They DID embrace the law of Christ and put him above all else. The Apostles seemed to have taught them to live in full obedience to Christ and submit (when possible) to the kings and governers of their lands.

They were to live as the children of light in a dark world who had a desire and love for the coming of Jesus again to bring their "full" salvation.

The problem is what is the "proper Biblical end time mind set"?

From what I can see in Scripture, the basic mind set is to be busy doing what the Lord instructed us to be doing. If however a person is convinced the end of all things is most likely going to occur within say ten or twenty years, there is a whole slew of things they AREN'T going to be busy doing.

Like having kids. How many MILLIONS of people have chosen not to have kids, or not to have "any more" than the 1.5 they statistically have, because the end is coming soon so what would be the point?

How many people have literally just given up on influencing the society around them because "it will get worse and worse and then the end shall come"? I can't count how many conversations I've had with believers (including pastors) whose "end time mindset" has neutralised them and their fellow believers.

Evang.Benincasa 03-24-2019 02:05 PM

Re: Planned Destruction of Civilisation
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ehud (Post 1560421)
I doubt his issue is reading comprehension, but rather how you have phrased your position. I don't think you would get any argument about not bowing to idols if the state said to do so, but your wording implies the apostles taught some watered down version of obeying civil authorities. I, too, can think of no place this occurred and would love to see an example because I have no doubt I could be missing something.

Sometimes we take for granted that we are 'obviously not talking about that' -- whatever that may be -- but to those skimming and reviewing your post, I can see how one could misunderstand what you have said. "And when possible" could mean many different things to many different people.

:thumbsup

Evang.Benincasa 03-24-2019 02:19 PM

Re: Planned Destruction of Civilisation
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple (Post 1560420)
I said the Apostles taught to obey Jesus and when possible to obey the state. You seem to be grasping to find something, anything to disagree with.

No Mike, you aren't the victim, so don't don the sack cloth.
The idea of obey if possible isn't ever presented in the scripture. What we are to do is spelled out quite nicely in these following scriptures Proverbs 8:15, Proverbs 24:21, Daniel 2:21, Daniel 4:17, John 19:11, Romans 13:1, 1 Timothy 2:2, Titus 3:1, and 1 Peter 2:13. The Apostle Paul was not only a good within the law of Moses, but he was also a good Roman. He used the Roman law to enable him to travel under protection from the Judeans who wanted to kill him. There isn't anything about submit to higher powers as much as possible. If we are going to go rounds and rounds with a brother over whether Matthew 28:19 in its original form is legit. Why would I mot ask you to clarify yourself on this?

Evang.Benincasa 03-24-2019 02:21 PM

Re: Planned Destruction of Civilisation
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias (Post 1560424)
The problem is what is the "proper Biblical end time mind set"?

From what I can see in Scripture, the basic mind set is to be busy doing what the Lord instructed us to be doing. If however a person is convinced the end of all things is most likely going to occur within say ten or twenty years, there is a whole slew of things they AREN'T going to be busy doing.

Like having kids. How many MILLIONS of people have chosen not to have kids, or not to have "any more" than the 1.5 they statistically have, because the end is coming soon so what would be the point?

How many people have literally just given up on influencing the society around them because "it will get worse and worse and then the end shall come"? I can't count how many conversations I've had with believers (including pastors) whose "end time mindset" has neutralised them and their fellow believers.

Super clean post. :thumbsup

Esaias 03-24-2019 02:24 PM

Re: Planned Destruction of Civilisation
 
EVERYTHING must be conformed to the Word of God, so that it is no longer you living your life, but Christ living His life in and through you.

This is the seldom preached and seldom understood doctrine of God-Manifestation.

Your purpose is God-Manifestation. Your purpose is to be a walking, talking, living manifestation of the nature, character, power, and presence of Almighty God. THIS is how God has chosen to reveal Himself to the nations of mankind. And you are called to be a part of that programme of Divine Revelation.
When we grasp this concept of our actual purpose and calling, we're ready for phase 2, the reformation of our families. Your family likewise has a purpose here on this earth. And as a Christian, it is your duty to spread the Word to your family that THEY ARE PART OF THE TRUE GOSPEL MISSION. They have a purpose, not just as individuals, but as a family unit.

The family must, as a collective unit, be reformed after a godly fashion, to function as part of the ARMY OF THE LORD. See, God is Lord of Sabaoth, Lord of HOSTS. a host is an army, and armies are divided into units. An army is not just a mass of individuals (that would just be a mob). It is instead individuals grouped in units, and the first unit beyond the individual is the family.

Israel was called the Lord's hosts or armies (Ex 12:41), and the Passover lamb was to be selected "according to your families" (Ex 12:21). Thus, the Redemption of the hosts of the Lord was by families. We see this repeated in Acts 11:14 and Acts 16:3. The family is the basic unit of God's army.

The family then, as a basic unit of the Lord's hosts, must be on the same page, operating TOGETHER under the Commander's intent (the Gospel). The manual is the Bible. Each member of the family should be taking steps to help the family advance God's Dominion and Rule (Kingdom).

Granted, today, most families are a wreck, not on the same page at all. But you gotta start somewhere. Run what ya brung. Wherever your family is, whatever condition it's in, salvage what you can and move forward. TALK TO THEM ABOUT THEIR DIVINE DESTINY. Seek ways to build cohesion in the service of God.

Evang.Benincasa 03-24-2019 03:00 PM

Re: Planned Destruction of Civilisation
 
Moving forward towards the mark the high calling in Christ Jesus. No matter how the family is doing someone has to be the bigger kid in the sand box. Working with them so they are able to escape in the Body of Christ the devastation. The barbarians aren't just at the gate, they are in the home, the church, and the job. When the Visigoths sacked Rome on August 24 410 AD, they were let in through the gates. Because they already had fans. The United States is hemorrhaging. Our society is godless, lawless, and immersed in perversion. She affects the entire world as she goes down to the mat. When the United States has a cold, the rest of the world is in bed with the flu. This culture attacked the family in the 60s and 70s. Now gender isn't binary? Good grief. Meanwhile we are seeing all this and saying we can't change it, no endtime revivals for this crowd. Just watch it burn and wait for the Peace Train.

Michael The Disciple 03-24-2019 04:23 PM

Re: Planned Destruction of Civilisation
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias (Post 1560424)
The problem is what is the "proper Biblical end time mind set"?

From what I can see in Scripture, the basic mind set is to be busy doing what the Lord instructed us to be doing. If however a person is convinced the end of all things is most likely going to occur within say ten or twenty years, there is a whole slew of things they AREN'T going to be busy doing.

Like having kids. How many MILLIONS of people have chosen not to have kids, or not to have "any more" than the 1.5 they statistically have, because the end is coming soon so what would be the point?

How many people have literally just given up on influencing the society around them because "it will get worse and worse and then the end shall come"? I can't count how many conversations I've had with believers (including pastors) whose "end time mindset" has neutralised them and their fellow believers.

An end time mindset.

1 Peter 1:13-16

13Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; 14As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance: 15But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; 16Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

Hope to the end....for the grace coming at the revelation of Jesus Christ. IN THE MEANTIME live in obedience to him which includes the great commission, witnessing and teaching the commandments of Christ.

The Apostle taught the disciples the end of all things is at hand.


1 Peter 1:7


7But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.

BELIEVE YOU ARE IN THE ENDTIME. Watch and pray as if you are.

2 Peter 3:11-13

11Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Trying to influence society to me is under the heading of separating our lives to God in keeping his words and walking as he walked.

Modern parents who use birth control pills to keep from having children need Biblical teaching on who opens and closes the womb.

"Believers" who are not trying to influence society are basically disobedient believers. Just by obeying Christ you will be influencing the world in which you live.

Nevertheless I see far more in scripture that teaches the world in general will not repent and will wind up hating Christians of every nation. Saints who are suffering for their faith will be more excited about Jesus coming and his kingdom than those who are not suffering

I am not saying dont try to influence the world. I am saying God has a strategy for doing so. Its there in his commandments and instructions. These should be taught and practiced by every saint.

Esaias 03-24-2019 04:33 PM

Re: Planned Destruction of Civilisation
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple (Post 1560437)
An end time mindset.

1 Peter 1:13-16

13Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; 14As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance: 15But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; 16Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

Hope to the end....for the grace coming at the revelation of Jesus Christ. IN THE MEANTIME live in obedience to him which includes the great commission, witnessing and teaching the commandments of Christ.

The Apostle taught the disciples the end of all things is at hand.


1 Peter 1:7


7But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.

BELIEVE YOU ARE IN THE ENDTIME. Watch and pray as if you are.

2 Peter 3:11-13

11Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Trying to influence society to me is under the heading of separating our lives to God in keeping his words and walking as he walked.

Modern parents who use birth control pills to keep from having children need Biblical teaching on who opens and closes the womb.

"Believers" who are not trying to influence society are basically disobedient believers. Just by obeying Christ you will be influencing the world in which you live.

Nevertheless I see far more in scripture that teaches the world in general will not repent and will wind up hating Christians of every nation. Saints who are suffering for their faith will be more excited about Jesus coming and his kingdom than those who are not suffering

I am not saying dont try to influence the world. I am saying God has a strategy for doing so. Its their in his commandments and instructions. These should be taught and practiced by every saint.

That last part, bolded, is something I am glad we can agree on. :thumbsup

Evang.Benincasa 03-24-2019 04:46 PM

Re: Planned Destruction of Civilisation
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple (Post 1560437)

The Apostle taught the disciples the end of all things is at hand.


What does that mean?

Esaias 03-24-2019 05:02 PM

Re: Planned Destruction of Civilisation
 
The foundation of the family is a man and woman joined together by God. This means a good, strong, godly family recognizes and follows the Divinely prescribed roles of husband and wife, and teaches them to their children. So that the sons and daughters grow up to become godly husbands and wives. Additionally, a young man or woman who knows and supports Biblical concepts of marriage will look for a spouse that meets those qualifications, helping to ensure the continuity and passing on of God's Kingdom faith and practice to the next generation(s).

And this is going to require men and women sit down with their Bibles and STUDY to learn what God expects of them. It's great when the church teaches on this subject, and they should. But ultimately, the responsibity for knowing what kind of man or woman you ought to be rests with YOU. And the responsibility for passing those truths on to your children definitely rests with you. Sunday school is not an acceptable substitute for godly parenting.

But where to begin? Obviously a godly man or woman is a Christian, who follows all the known will of God. That applies to all people. But there are certain specific instructions in the Word concerning husbands and fathers, and wives and mothers, and thus the family unit, that need to be sought out and incorporated into life.

How does the Bible describe the family? Who has what roles? What are ALL the instructions God has given for husbands, wives, etc?

Just as an example, have you ever considered the following?

Numbers ch 30
1 And Moses spake unto the heads of the tribes concerning the children of Israel, saying, This is the thing which the LORD hath commanded. 2 If a man vow a vow unto the LORD, or swear an oath to bind his soul with a bond; he shall not break his word, he shall do according to all that proceedeth out of his mouth. 3 If a woman also vow a vow unto the LORD, and bind herself by a bond, being in her father's house in her youth; 4 and her father hear her vow, and her bond wherewith she hath bound her soul, and her father shall hold his peace at her: then all her vows shall stand, and every bond wherewith she hath bound her soul shall stand. 5 But if her father disallow her in the day that he heareth; not any of her vows, or of her bonds wherewith she hath bound her soul, shall stand: and the LORD shall forgive her, because her father disallowed her. 6 And if she had at all an husband, when she vowed, or uttered ought out of her lips, wherewith she bound her soul; 7 and her husband heard it, and held his peace at her in the day that he heard it: then her vows shall stand, and her bonds wherewith she bound her soul shall stand. 8 But if her husband disallowed her on the day that he heard it; then he shall make her vow which she vowed, and that which she uttered with her lips, wherewith she bound her soul, of none effect: and the LORD shall forgive her. 9 But every vow of a widow, and of her that is divorced, wherewith they have bound their souls, shall stand against her. 10 And if she vowed in her husband's house, or bound her soul by a bond with an oath; 11 and her husband heard it, and held his peace at her, and disallowed her not: then all her vows shall stand, and every bond wherewith she bound her soul shall stand. 12 But if her husband hath utterly made them void on the day he heard them; then whatsoever proceeded out of her lips concerning her vows, or concerning the bond of her soul, shall not stand: her husband hath made them void; and the LORD shall forgive her. 13 Every vow, and every binding oath to afflict the soul, her husband may establish it, or her husband may make it void. 14 But if her husband altogether hold his peace at her from day to day; then he establisheth all her vows, or all her bonds, which are upon her: he confirmeth them, because he held his peace at her in the day that he heard them. 15 But if he shall any ways make them void after that he hath heard them; then he shall bear her iniquity. 16 These are the statutes, which the LORD commanded Moses, between a man and his wife, between the father and his daughter, being yet in her youth in her father's house.
Essentially, as far as God is concerned, a woman is under the care and protection of her father until she is married. Furthermore, he (or her husband once she is married) is responsible for and accountable for any vows or promises she makes. Which in turn means he can nullify a vow she makes, if upon hearing of it he thinks it best to do so.

What implications does this have for the entire family dynamic? What implications does this have, as far as suggesting to a young lady just what kind of man she should be looking for? If a man has that kind of Biblical obligation and authority, he needs to have his head on right, otherwise she may find herself rather unhappy. On the other hand, she needs to marry a guy who is strong enough to say "No" when he needs to. And a young man needs to know how to exercise that authority in a godly, Christ honouring way, loving His (future) wife as Christ loves the church.

Which means the kids need to grow up being taught these Kingdom principles for living.

Esaias 03-24-2019 05:36 PM

Re: Planned Destruction of Civilisation
 
Lev 25:23
The land shall not be sold for ever: for the land is mine; for ye are strangers and sojourners with me.
This chapter contains instructions regarding land sales. Basically, each family had a plot of land, and were forbidden to permanently sell it outside of the family. It could be sold to outsiders, but only temporarily. This was to make sure that none of God's people became homeless. They would always have a piece of land to live on. If they sold it because they needed money, at some point it would be returned to them.

How can this Kingdom principle be put it into practice by godly families today?

Obviously, society itself does not follow God's commandments regarding land sales and land redemption. However, individual families that do in fact own some land can follow the principle as closely as possible, and NOT SELL OFF THEIR LAND OUTSIDE THE FAMILY.

I have seen numerous times when a couple retires, and sells their house to buy an RV or something, or else get one of those nifty "reverse mortgages" aimed at retirees. The result? Their kids and grandkids have to fend for themselves, instead of inheriting a piece of land (hopefully free of mortgage debt) to live on while building their own family. And so the kids move away, and participate in the standard real estate market, where people either just rent, or if they buy they only live in it for 5-7 years and then move on.

Longer reaching consequences of this dispossession off the land include people becoming essentially nomads and vagabonds, never able to settle down and put down roots in a community. Thus, nobody feels any connection to their neighbours, because they really have none. Communities thus become essentially large temporary camps of drifters, and "community" is about as strong as what you find in an RV park or at a hotel. No wonder society is going down the drain!

But, if you pass on a land inheritance (however small) to your kids, they can at least never be homeless and can build their own family with one less worry and one less bill to pay. After all, that's what family is supposed to be for: to help each other out to survive and move ahead.

So determine that, if at all possible, if you have some land, pass it on to your kids. And teach them the same principle, to do the same for their children. This will begin a reformation among Christian families that will result in more and more of them being more and more independent (God dependent) and self sufficient (God sufficient). And thus less beholden to a Christ hating destructive, nihilistic world system.

votivesoul 03-25-2019 06:19 PM

Re: Planned Destruction of Civilisation
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias (Post 1560405)
Last sentence of second paragraph above should read "...out of LOVE to our Father", not "live". Caught it too late to edit.

Fixed.

votivesoul 03-25-2019 06:31 PM

Re: Planned Destruction of Civilisation
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias (Post 1560453)
Lev 25:23
The land shall not be sold for ever: for the land is mine; for ye are strangers and sojourners with me.
This chapter contains instructions regarding land sales. Basically, each family had a plot of land, and were forbidden to permanently sell it outside of the family. It could be sold to outsiders, but only temporarily. This was to make sure that none of God's people became homeless. They would always have a piece of land to live on. If they sold it because they needed money, at some point it would be returned to them.

How can this Kingdom principle be put it into practice by godly families today?

Obviously, society itself does not follow God's commandments regarding land sales and land redemption. However, individual families that do in fact own some land can follow the principle as closely as possible, and NOT SELL OFF THEIR LAND OUTSIDE THE FAMILY.

I have seen numerous times when a couple retires, and sells their house to buy an RV or something, or else get one of those nifty "reverse mortgages" aimed at retirees. The result? Their kids and grandkids have to fend for themselves, instead of inheriting a piece of land (hopefully free of mortgage debt) to live on while building their own family. And so the kids move away, and participate in the standard real estate market, where people either just rent, or if they buy they only live in it for 5-7 years and then move on.

Longer reaching consequences of this dispossession off the land include people becoming essentially nomads and vagabonds, never able to settle down and put down roots in a community. Thus, nobody feels any connection to their neighbours, because they really have none. Communities thus become essentially large temporary camps of drifters, and "community" is about as strong as what you find in an RV park or at a hotel. No wonder society is going down the drain!

But, if you pass on a land inheritance (however small) to your kids, they can at least never be homeless and can build their own family with one less worry and one less bill to pay. After all, that's what family is supposed to be for: to help each other out to survive and move ahead.

So determine that, if at all possible, if you have some land, pass it on to your kids. And teach them the same principle, to do the same for their children. This will begin a reformation among Christian families that will result in more and more of them being more and more independent (God dependent) and self sufficient (God sufficient). And thus less beholden to a Christ hating destructive, nihilistic world system.

This is really good, right here. Almost all "old money" wealth in society is tied to real estate. Imagine if believers owned a majority stake of property in their communities? They would hold the sway on all the local ordinances.

Evang.Benincasa 03-25-2019 06:45 PM

Re: Planned Destruction of Civilisation
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by votivesoul (Post 1560496)
This is really good, right here. Almost all "old money" wealth in society is tied to real estate. Imagine if believers owned a majority stake of property in their communities? They would hold the sway on all the local ordinances.

:highfive :thumbsup

Esaias 03-26-2019 12:19 AM

Re: Planned Destruction of Civilisation
 
Jacob's sons tended their father's flocks (Gen 37:12). Jethro's daughters tended their father's flocks (Ex 2:16). David (and presumably his brothers) tended their father's flocks (1 Sam 17:34).

It is thus Biblical for children to grow up working in the family business. In fact, that's how most cultures have been for all of time. Only recently have we developed this unhistorical, unbiblical, and unnatural attitude that a child is to grow up and go out in the world and start fending for him or her self, by "picking a career" or just "getting a job". This has contributed to a disconnect from one generation to the next, and prohibits the development of any kind of family business that can be passed on to succeeding generations.

Under the older traditional model, a man only had to worry about managing and increasing the business he inherited. He didn't turn 18 and have to deal with "what am I going to do for a living, how will I make it?" Each generation contributed to the survival and advancement of the next generation.

This doesn't mean an individual couldn't choose to strike out in a new direction. But he (or she) didn't HAVE to. The way most do things today, every individual has to strike out on their own, sink or swim. Society paints a bad ugly picture of a son continuing the father's line of work or business. "Muh individuality will be stifled" many think.

The result? Homelessness. No inheritance for the kids except maybe insurance payoff. Families scattering across the state and nation, everyone drifting in a sea of isolation. Depression. Dysfunction. Suicide. Alcoholism and other bad coping mechanisms.

If Christians get back to the idea of "tending father's flocks", and work on putting it into practice, then kids and grandkids will be less susceptible to homelessness, idleness, dysfunction, aloneness, financial instabity, economic failure, going on welfare, voting for democrats, etc.

How to do it? Instead of the goal being "work hard till I hit 65 or 70, then live on my 401(k) and hope I die before my money runs out", the goal can be "build a family business with which to train the kids and which they can inherit and expand", or maybe at least "do what I can to help my kids get their own family business started". Even if it is as limited as "get my kid a job at the factory I work at so they can learn a trade and will never lack bread, Lord willing."

Sure beats "Your 18, get a job somewhere, anywhere, and get outta my house." You may find yourself in a nursing home later on.

Family business increases a family's collective power and influence, as well as providing a safety net for the family members. This is needful for influencing community reformation.

Esaias 03-26-2019 12:23 AM

Re: Planned Destruction of Civilisation
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by votivesoul (Post 1560495)
Fixed.

Thank you. :thumbsup

Quote:

Originally Posted by votivesoul (Post 1560496)
This is really good, right here. Almost all "old money" wealth in society is tied to real estate. Imagine if believers owned a majority stake of property in their communities? They would hold the sway on all the local ordinances.

Yes, not just real estate but the businesses in town. In charge of providing employment to the community. This is how "power" operates, always has and always will in this life. Might as well be ours.

jediwill83 03-26-2019 09:51 AM

Re: Planned Destruction of Civilisation
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias (Post 1560508)
Thank you. :thumbsup



Yes, not just real estate but the businesses in town. In charge of providing employment to the community. This is how "power" operates, always has and always will in this life. Might as well be ours.


We have this idea in mind with what we are doing while getting out of debt and building savings doing rideshare. Right now we are researching low cost franchises.



The idea is to be self sufficient and to have a secure family not living from paycheck to paycheck and not being a wage slave.

Esaias 03-26-2019 10:05 AM

Re: Planned Destruction of Civilisation
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jediwill83 (Post 1560523)
We have this idea in mind with what we are doing while getting out of debt and building savings doing rideshare. Right now we are researching low cost franchises.



The idea is to be self sufficient and to have a secure family not living from paycheck to paycheck and not being a wage slave.

:thumbsup

Very good!

Check this out: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5I...o2jnnneClRUcnA

Esaias 03-26-2019 11:50 AM

Re: Planned Destruction of Civilisation
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias (Post 1560404)
What does it mean to seek first the Kingdom of God and His righteousness?

What is His righteousness?

Here is a good thread/Bible study on God's righteousness: http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...ad.php?t=52356

Preview:
Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias (Post 1532297)


O my people, remember now what Balak king of Moab consulted, and what Balaam the son of Beor answered him from Shittim unto Gilgal; that ye may know the righteousness of the LORD.
(Micah 6:5)
We are to seek the Kingdom of God, and HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS, as our top priority, rather than material things of this life. BUT...

... one has to know what it is they are seeking, what it is they are looking for, what exactly it is they are following after. And the clue is found in Micah ch 6, verse 5.

O my people, remember now what Balak king of Moab consulted, and what Balaam the son of Beor answered him from Shittim unto Gilgal; that ye may know the righteousness of the LORD.

The story of Balak and Balaam, and the events that transpired from Shittim to Gilgal, will demonstrate the "righteousness of the Lord". That is, by understanding those events, we will gain an understanding of the Lord's righteousness.



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