Bishop Jakes Responses to His Critics!!
 

My Views on the Godhead
Jakes responds to Christianity Today article, "Apologetics Journal Criticizes Jakes."
By Bishop T. D. Jakes | Hearsay, not heresy.

I was raised Baptist and became Pentecostal 26 years ago at a Greater Emmanuel Apostolic Church, where I was later ordained a Bishop. I resigned from that denomination 11 years ago, and have continued to fellowship with Higher Ground Always Abounding Assemblies. This small fellowship of churches is not a denomination, and differs in many ways from traditional Apostolic churches.

Both chapters of my early spiritual journey contributed volumes to my faith and walk with God, helping to hone my character. I was shaped by and appreciate both denominations, but am controlled by neither. My association with Oneness people does not constitute assimilation into their ranks any more than my association with the homeless in our city makes me one of them.

Day-to-day, my affiliation is with the Pater Alliance, an interdenominational network of some 250 churches, which I founded three years ago and serve as CEO, senior minister, and mentor, providing leadership for pastors from Presbyterian, to Baptist, to Pentecostal. My own 23,000-member church, The Potter's House in Dallas, is non-denominational and growing exponentially. There, I serve widely different people whose common desire is to know God, and to grow in the knowledge of, and fellowship with, Jesus Christ.

While I mix with Christians from a broad range of theological perspectives, I speak only for my personal faith and convictions. I am not a theologian, and I avoid quoting even theologians who agree with me. To defend my beliefs, I go directly to the Bible.My views on the Godhead are from 1 John 5:7-8, "For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one." (NKJV)

I believe in one God who is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. I believe these three have distinct and separate functions—so separate that each has individual attributes, yet are one. I do not believe in three Gods.Many things can be said about the Son that cannot be said about the Father. The Son was born of a virgin; the Father created the virgin from whom He was born. The Son slept (Luke 8:23), but the Father never sleeps (Psalm 121:3-5). The Son took on the likeness of sinful flesh (Romans 8:3), but God is a spirit (John 4:24). Likewise, several characteristics are distinctive to the Holy Spirit (John 16:13). The Holy Spirit alone empowers (Acts 1:8), indwells (2 Timothy 1:15), and guides the believer (John 16:14).

In spite of all the distinctiveness, God is one in His essence. Though no human illustration perfectly fits the Divine, it is similar to ice, water and steam: three separate forms, yet all H2O. Each element can co-exist, each has distinguishing characteristics and functions, but all have sameness.

In 1 Timothy 3:16, the Apostle Paul says, "Without controversy, great is the mystery of Godliness." Without controversy, it is a mystery, not always to be figured out, but to be entered into.

The language in the doctrinal statement of our ministry that refers to the Trinity of the Godhead as "manifestations" does not derive from modalism. The Apostle Paul himself used this term referring to the Godhead in 1 Timothy 3:15, 1Corinthians 12:7, and 1 John 3:5-8. Peter also used the term in 1 Peter 1:20. Can this word now be heresy when it is a direct quote from the Pauline epistles and used elsewhere in the New Testament?

I believe Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of God. I believe He was born of a virgin, crucified on a cross, arose from the dead, and is coming again for His church. I believe He sent the Holy Spirit to lead and guide the Church. And I believe in justification by faith. I also believe that baptism is a commandment to be observed in obedience to God's Word. The rites of baptism are celebrated in our church by immersion in the name of Jesus Christ. I have always, without exception, baptized as the early church did in Acts 2:38, 10:44 and 9:1-4. That is my conviction, based on Scripture.

Nevertheless, many of my respected colleagues quote Matthew 28:19 when they baptize, while others use both, saying, "In the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, we do all things in Jesus' name." Our love for the same Lord has enabled us to walk together in love without dissension and in spite of variance in procedures.

I deeply appreciate the chance to respond to any misunderstandings that may have resulted in part from my silence on these subjects. Little if any attention is given to any of them in my books or sermons. My silence has not been some veiled attempt to disguise my faith, which is demonstrated daily in the works I have been called to do. My voice may have seemed muted on these subjects, but I have made a distinct sound regarding the matters that I have been assigned to discuss with my generation. I have spoken boldly against domestic violence—and against physical, sexual and emotional abuse of women in this nation. I have thundered as an advocate of reconciliation between races and denominations, and for restoration of hurting souls to the healing properties of Christ's love.

I confess that I have remained aloof from the theological controversies. And I confess I have been universal in my associations, purposely ignoring opportunities to be divisive. But it was not lack of conviction, or absence of proper Christian ideals, that had taken my attention—I love the great principles and tenets of our faith, and I am not ashamed of the gospel of Jesus Christ. Yet it is not the oneness of God for which I cry, it is for the oneness of His people.

Sounds like a great deal of wisdom to me, can you accept this pastor as a brother in Christ? If not where is his position deficient?

that was simple. LoL

breaking news here

Recap of old news is what it is...

sort of like the whiff you get when you lift up the edge of a not-quite-old cow pattie?

ew

Great insight, I'm so glad we talked!:lol

This has already been posted and discussed.

I just bumped it over in Deep Waters

Code for "I am not Oneness" since he is saying "neither am I homeless by association with them"

This is a well known and historically proven interpolation

What does that mean though? Is he saying they are individuals?

Still has not said what they are. This analogy is used by both Trinitarians and Oneness for different reasons

That pretty much sums it up. He is distancing himself from a modalistic/oneness viewpoint in the face of his accusers from the CRI camp and others that charge he is Oneness or Modalistic

Here he associates back with the Oneness churches again

That can only come from a Texan! :killinme

I've spent a little too much time with the javelinas! :ernie

I remember a discussion, but I did not remember this being the exact article that was discussed.

Listen regardless of my views on the Godhead ... here is the nutshell... Jakes believes in some morphed form of modalism, but all his cash comes from trinitarians ... that is the only reason he even used the dreaded "T" word in this article..... whatever you are... be that, and dont pander... I find that to be a little weak

What are you talking about, "his cash comes from trinitarians". With a church membership of 26,000, don't you think those that have embraced what he believes can support him?

It is not en ought that someone preaches repentance, baptism in Jesus name, and Spirit baptism, it must be done according to some other rigid outline? Again, I say, if DJ preached the outward standards OP would be falling all over themselves to embrace him. :NHL_check

You’re probably right they would be.. But he does not preach them, and you’ll be hard pressed to find him preaching any doctrine at all as well. I like Jakes, and I like trinitarianism… but lets face it Tommy Tenney, TD Jakes, Philips, Craig and Dean and so on … sell the largest majority of their books, have their programs supported, and their conferences attended by Trinitarians… hence their reluctance to just simply spill their guts regarding their theology – try to find a doctrinal statement on Tenney’s website… Surprisingly absent!

I would say that most people on here buy books that were written by trinitarians. What's the difference? You are supporting them! Why would you criticize someone because a trinitarian buys their stuff???? Doesn't make sense, IMO.

I'm not at all. Perhaps I did not word my pst clearly... I am sorry....

I am simply stating that I think Tenney, Jakes, and Philips Craig and Dean... along with others of similar doctrinal persuasions hide thier doctrine, as not to obstruct cash flow.... thats all.. its a judgement... I make no bones about it... perhaps they cloud their doctrinal views because they...... er um.... well I dont know any other reason than the one given

Again I lean towards trinitarianism - so whatever... I am just stating my thought on the matter... not the truth necessarily

I would like to correct one thing... Tenney has added a doctrinal section......


"God There is one God, Creator of all things, infinitely perfect, and eternally existing in three Manifestations: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit."


He eternally exists as three manifestations? when I was oneness I viewed this as a diluted form of trinitarianism... What do you think?

I think none of us really understand God. That's what I think!

He is infinite and we aren't; I think the godhead is a mystery. I have my ideas, but I don't condemn those who don't agree. I don't call myself oneness or trinitarian; I don't like either term. Neither is Biblical. If you asked our people which they were, they wouldn't even understand the question. We don't make an issue of it, but we do baptize in Jesus' name because that's what we see in scripture.

I really wonder if Jakes cares much what his "critics" think.

you mean like....
All trinitarians are lost?

I am very glad to hear that you are moving away from things that have already been discussed :killinme

Aunt Sherr... I am shocked... :eek:

You're shocked, why???? I don't like the term. Where is it in the Bible? I believe God is one God, but there are scriptures that definitely have distinction in the roles of the Father, Son & Holy Ghost. I don't even try to claim that I understand it all.

:girlpopcorn

Very cool - I agree mostly!

but.. b-but I believe this too... can I still be Oneness??

Maybe not, but I like how he responded to them, anyway.

Really? That one has been run into the ground, but SE or OP or WH is always laying hands on it and resurrecting it.:killinme:killinme

My pursuit of a personal knowledge and relationship with Jesus brought me to this attitude as well. My desire is actually to know Him, rather than just know about Him. It is no longer "the issue", yet I too agree baptism is to be in Jesus Name.

While I agree his thinking is about as deep as all the other TV 'ministers' he does express a theology. He's a theologian....a bad one but a theologian none the less.

Sherri, I dont think sola gratia is criticizing them simply for the fact that Trinitarians buy their books and materials etc.

I think his point is that with some of these people, because the majority of their "market" is in the Trinitarian realm, they're a bit reluctant to make waves with the doctrinal issue. Essentialy they end up hiding or downplaying what they really believe.

Not a shocking statement there. Unfortunately, a lot of Oneness/Apostolic ministers try to appease Trinitarians to varying degrees. Its unfortunate, but it happens.

No Oneness preacher I know of would use a phrase like that, referring to the "Trinity of the Godhead".

I also remember an old message (entitled "Preview of a Coming Attraction") from the Azusa Conference in Tulsa, OK in about 1993, in which Jakes clearly said the number 3 in the bible represents Trinity. I was stunned to hear that, since that was the first time I had heard such a blatantly Trinitarian statement come out of his mouth.

I dont know why so many Apostolics try to make this man something he is not. Basen on his words, he's clearly not Oneness, but it seems like so many Oneness believers want to "claim" him as being one of us.

I have nothing against the man personally, but I am never impressed by any preacher who comes out of a Oneness church and then either changes or waters down his doctrine.

Seems silly to be critical of a man that has baptized 23,000 in Jesus Name when some here have only baptized 23. We will have to stand next to him at the judgement.

He is laughing all the way to the bank.

And yes I do believe ALL Trinitarians are lost. I am NOT happy about it but that is the facts.

Just so you don't believe they are ALL headed to a literal fiery hellhole for billions of years of endless torture.
Of course, Jesus came to seek and to save the LOST, so those believing trinny's should be easy for Him to find.:runhills:runhills

The word TRINITY in and of itself is not a bad term in oneness theology. Trinity simply means THREE IN UNITY. But if it is a matter of THREE persons in unity, then that is wrong. But three manifestations in unity is a trinity and is altogether correct.

But since TRINITY is mostly known and recognized as referring to THREE PERSONS, it is a ploy for a oneness person to imply manifestations when using the words, knowing that trinitarians with faith in three persons will not realize the ploy and let it slip by, thus avoiding confrontation and persecution.

So which do you think Jakes is doing?