From legalism to grace. Anyone read this book?
 

From legalism to grace. Anyone read this book? Any thoughts?
https://www.amazon.com/Free-Legalism.../dp/1087259134

Re: From legalism to grace. Anyone read this book
 

No give us your critique.

Re: From legalism to grace. Anyone read this book
 

Rubbish.

Re: From legalism to grace. Anyone read this book
 

I was curious if anybody had read it. The description looks interesting. And it looks like its #1 new release on amazon for the religous and cults section. N David I'm assuming you have read it?

Re: From legalism to grace. Anyone read this book
 

What’s legalism?

Re: From legalism to grace. Anyone read this book
 

Legalism: strict adherence, or the principle of strict adherence, to law or prescription, especially to the letter rather than the spirit.

Example:

[Mat 23:23 NKJV] 23 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier [matters] of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone.

Re: From legalism to grace. Anyone read this book
 

Is the author complaining about holiness being too hard, or about bad experiences with some hypocrites?

Re: From legalism to grace. Anyone read this book
 

You mean like Cain, who just offered what he needed to offer minus attention to God. While probably Abel was on his face in worship when he gave his offering. The Church opposed to the Judaic Israelit system of the first century. Where circumcision instead of Holy Ghost was the focus. Having Church minus God? Matthew 23:23 shows us that tithe of even the littlest items was comedialble. But they did it religiously whether God approved or not. The tithe only worked if it was done out of sincere love, and mercy.

So did anyone read this book? Legalism to grace ism?

Is it about sloppy agape? Greasy grace? How to have a bless me club while the pastor preaches barefoot?

Re: From legalism to grace. Anyone read this book
 

I missed this post.

Sorry

Re: From legalism to grace. Anyone read this book
 

A personal perception of religion? Gotcha.

OK, place this book on the pay no mind list.

In my time from FCF, NFCF, to AFF, I have read my share of wee, wee, wee, all the home. :heeheehee

Re: From legalism to grace. Anyone read this book
 

Go read her blog and you won't wonder why she left.
Here is just one quote:
"I was never really a good (adult) United Pentecostal. I always pushed the limits as far as I could without getting kicked off the platform."
Sound like someone who had other issues and now is looking for something to blame.
Most of "these" start out like Esau, despising their birthright.
And by that I mean they despise the beliefs that the "church" they were spiritually born into has.
So, first they despise their spiritual birthright.
Secondly, they grow to despise the physical birthright and to question why their parents raised them as they did.
But, they are not content to stop there.
They then have to move on from Esau to Amalek.
And as the Amalekites hated the Jews, they grow to hate those still in the "church".
Next, they move to try to pick off those that are weak in their faith, just as the Amalekites picked off those who were at the end of the line.
Lastly, they will attempt to destroy the entire "church".
Just as Haman did.

It amazes me how three years on, she still is blaming the UPCI for everything wrong with her.

Re: From legalism to grace. Anyone read this book
 

ILG and Lois, two good examples of wound lickers.

People need to move on, get over it already. They claim they moved on from us. But lo and behold they are talking about issues that are like 30 years old.
Seriously? I met an individual who saw my family and then walked over to me and started telling me how they "use to be" UPCI. They went into a long soliloquy of how legalistic, and WRONG the UPCI was, how they needed to leave. Come to find out that was 40 years ago? I then asked him was this horrifying sad tale of woe supposed to encourage me to follow him into a brighter day? I just asked him what was his purpose to come over and give me his ecclesiastical tales from the crypt? He didn't know what to say. But I told him, to think about 40 years of unresolved issues with a group. How he would go out of his way to approach a stranger would be so driven to muck up bad feelings. Bad feelings to a stranger who obviously is still a part of the religion he left so long ago. Every man's burden is the heaviest, and people of all walks of life are going through it from time to time. Yet, telling me that I should get rid of my pitbull because your's bit you, has hardly any impact on me. I just haven't the same experiences. I know, I know, the pastor burned you with cigarettes, made you tithe 100%, and made everyone move to Guyana. But, listen, that didn't happen to me, and even when things went sideways in the Apostolic church, I still made it through, and learned that not everything that claims Apostolic Pentecostal will enter the kingdom of heaven. Like I always say, my best day in the world, cannot even compare to my worst day in the Apostolic Pentecostal movement.

Re: From legalism to grace. Anyone read this book
 

Even in my own life I agree with this.

Re: From legalism to grace. Anyone read this book
 

I just seen her blog. Did anybody else see the open letter to the UPC? Omg!
https://findingmyfreedomdoingmylife....gion/#comments

Re: From legalism to grace. Anyone read this book
 

I just see a hurting person. She needs to understand that for us, somebody that used to be (or appear to be) so faithful, when they backslide, it is a tragedy.

You can't understand holiness unless it comes from a committed heart to Jesus. If you don't have it, you won't understand it and your flesh will keep pushing in the opposite direction, hence the "relief" she felt after dropping it.

Regarding that Post on Facebook, how do people find those gems? I have to see the context in which that was said, though. Anyways, I know that may be a real thing, hypocrites are everywhere.

Re: From legalism to grace. Anyone read this book
 

I know some pastors I would not sit under! However I know some that are kind, understanding and merciful....

Re: From legalism to grace. Anyone read this book
 

Here is her blog:

https://findingmyfreedomdoingmylife.wordpress.com/

Re: From legalism to grace. Anyone read this book
 

I couldn't agree more!

Re: From legalism to grace. Anyone read this book
 

Why do so many people feel the need to "blog" about how bad they had it? Whether religion, family, marriage, dating, employment, whatever, seems like almost everybody wants to wallow in the past? Goes along with the felt need to maintain live updates on what one had for lunch, or which pair of socks one is wearing right now, blah blah blah. The farcebook generation has got to be the most coddled, incompetent, helpless, weak, needy, infantile generation of humans ever.

Naturally, I'll be accused of being insensitive, a bully, mean, uncaring, unfeeling, etc. Whoop dee doo.

Too much pearl clutching and not enough getoverit in this day and age. When the intardnet shuts off it'll just about be the best thing to happen since Pentecost.

Re: From legalism to grace. Anyone read this book
 

I was freed from sin through Jesus Christ in this apostolic pentecostal movement. Makes me wonder what people are freeing themselves from when they are freeing themselves from freedom? Being free from legalism? I think they mean free from God and back bound with sin. I am free to party all night and do everything I want to do, but I thank God He freed me from the desire to want to relive that old lifestyle. People are free from sin to live for God, or they are free from God to live for sin. What is this lady really teaching freedom from.

I was recently at the park playing volley ball with our church youth, and suddenly we were overtaken by our city football team's "meet the players" picnic. I didn't want to hang around long with our church youth after they showed up. Girls in bikinis and shirtless guys wanting to play volleyball and we are viewed as legalistic because we teach modesty at our church. People that want to be free are ussually people who just want to live like the rest of this sin sick world. Just be like the rest.

I grew up strict and I felt bound by the church because I didn't have the goods in my heart. I wanted what I thought the world had. I later found out how destructive living in sin was. I thank God that I am not living that life of gratifying the flesh. What some people call legalism is really what I call boundaries. I have boundaries because I want to protect what God has given me.

ladies cutting their hair
Men letting their hair grow long
ladies wearing make up
ladies wearing pants
Men wearing dresses
Enjoying hollywood's latest
mixed public swimming
tattos
pearcings
drinking
smoking
cursing
and the list goes on and on.

These are just some of the things that we are called legalistic for abstaining from. I really just don't want any of this in my life. Evidently one person's freedom is another person's bondage.

Re: From legalism to grace. Anyone read this book
 

I read the preview on Amazon and a few entries on her blog. That was enough.

Re: From legalism to grace. Anyone read this book
 

Most people that toss around the word legalism (i.e. legalist, legalistic, etc.) haven't the slightest idea as to what it means.

Most of the ones that write off a particular church, Christian individual, or beliefs as legalistic, are generally saying that they don't want to live a life as set aside as the one they're writing off. They don't mind going to church, being baptized in Jesus' name, or even speaking in tongues, but that conviction and being set aside stuff just hits them sideways.

They can't jive with that.

How do I draw this conclusion? Well, if you've followed any of my previous posts, you'll remember that I once struggled with such issues on separation, modesty, and things I saw as legalistic because I didn't have a love for what was right in my heart.

You see, when people view Biblical principles as legalistic, that's their first issue. When they don't have the love for what is Truth in their hearts, they naturally feel bound and strive to find someone that tells them "they ain't gotta live like that".

I certainly did that.

But it slapped me in the face one day that I was going the opposite direction that what I know God had told me was right. I was deliberately trying to convince my newly converted holiness mind that what my home church was calling holiness was really legalism, and therefore unnecessary.

Boy, am I thankful the Lord had mercy on me and drew me back in. I can't say every "I" and "T" is dotted and crossed like it's suppose to be, but I can say I don't have any intention on going the opposite direction.

No compromises. No white-washing.

Live it straight.

Re: From legalism to grace. Anyone read this book
 

So, you no longer attend your home church?

You are holiness homeless?

Re: From legalism to grace. Anyone read this book
 

:lol

Re: From legalism to grace. Anyone read this book
 

No, I went back to my home church full time. I struggled with such issues, but returned to what I knew was right.

Re: From legalism to grace. Anyone read this book
 

I appreciate your sentiments here. For some, it seems the Biblical lifestyle of separation from the world is interpreted as a series of "laws" that must be kept to remain a part of the club. I've seen folks with mean, judgmental attitudes think they were OK as long as they looked ultra-conservative in their dress code. They've missed the point.

You are really onto something when you mention love for the Truth. A truly separated lifestyle is one that is motivated by love for and a desire to please the Lord Jesus Christ who is the personification of Truth. Folks in love with Jesus love His Word and take their lifestyle cues from the Spirit-inspired Bible.

So many people are driven by their feelings. Some make snap judgments concerning the various stands some Christians have taken and don't take the time to carefully and prayerfully examine the "why" of the stands people take.

When hundreds of thousands of Apostolic people agree to take a stand on a certain subject, it seems a manifestation of hubris to not take a close and reasoned look at why they did it. Some folks take stands because of tradition, or to stay in the club, or out of fear of their pastor. Some say, "my church teaches this." To me, all these reasons are just not good enough. If one separates themselves from the world for any other reason than being madly and hopelessly in love with Jesus Christ, they are missing the point.

Jesus said, "Woe unto the world because offenses must come." He was so right...if you haven't had opportunity to be offended yet, it is guaranteed to come. I just hate it when I see folks throw away their relationship with Jesus Christ because they see Christians acting awful. Seems like throwing out the baby with the bathwater to me. For some its impossible to separate the Lord Jesus from Christians who are acting ugly. I guess it's human nature. It's still sad.

Re: From legalism to grace. Anyone read this book
 

I have met several Apostolic people that have an attitude about them that they're simply holier than the rest because of their adherence to a strict outwardly conservative standard.

The churches in my area have done one of two things: 1) They've lowered their standards, stayed friendly and mostly welcoming, but are pressing toward the "you don't have to live like that" mentality; or 2) They've kept their standards, but have become consumed with a holier than thou attitude that comes across rather abrasive to sinners, backsliders, and other Christians.

I spent too much time with those loosening their standards, and in turn, got hurt when I visited the churches that had become consumed by pride. Honestly, I don't think either attitude makes Jesus happy. He doesn't want us widening the way the Word calls narrow to Heaven, but He also doesn't want us basing our faith entirely on standards, especially those man-made, and therefore shunning people in the process.

There's a balance. Holiness is an inward and outward thing. If holiness consumes you inwardly, then it can't help but to show on the outside. If the outside starts slipping, then something went wrong on the inside first. The two go hand-in-hand, coexisting with one another. I don't know if I believe if it's genuinely possible to have one without the other.

Re: From legalism to grace. Anyone read this book
 

Well said! I couldn't agree more! :yourock

Re: From legalism to grace. Anyone read this book
 

which standards have to be kept to be saved?

Re: From legalism to grace. Anyone read this book
 

Thanks.

I've been a spiritual rollercoaster before in concerning certain expectations on holiness. When I young in the faith, I remember praying and asking God what was right and what I needed to adhere to as Biblical fact.

And I found that changing once I started hanging around my Mother's church too much. Their exceptional people, but have lowered their standards considerably. It's almost as if their standards are so low now that they might as well not have any whatsoever. The Mother of the Church, that started it back in 1963, passed back in 2014. It had already starting going down hill before her death because her health was waning, and she wasn't able to pastor as she had done before. Her son-in-law and youngest daughter took over as pastors, and it's been a continuing downward spiral ever since.

Like I said, they love people. They help them financially, pray for them, with them, encourage them to be involved in and regularly attend church, but correcting them in center areas of their life, they don't do. There's almost no outward attire standard; makeup, jewelry, women wearing pants, cut hair, pierced ears, cloud the congregation, and has found its way into the pulpit. The pastors themselves have backslidden in their appearance.

This confused me. The Spirit still moves in their services, so how could their decision to "let go of tradition" (as they seem to call it) necessarily be bad? I finally came back to realization that the Lord was simply having mercy on them, hoping they'd come back to Him solely.

Re: From legalism to grace. Anyone read this book
 

Re: From legalism to grace. Anyone read this book
 

That is wonderful that they love people and genuinely try to minister to them. But they are not doing anyone any favors by abandoning Biblical lifestyle paths. You are so right that God is merciful and lovingly moves on wayward folks of all stripes. I've seen Him do it among ultra-ultra-conservatives all the way to loosy-goosy, greasy-grace liberals. Return, return, return, return, He says. The goodness of God still is what turns men to repentance. I can testify to that personally.

Re: From legalism to grace. Anyone read this book
 

How can I say this? Well, once such restrictions and teachings on conservative attire dwindles, or goes away almost entirely, other things naturally become relaxed, too.

They don't have a membership board. It's a come and you're one of us type deal going on there, but I get what you mean. As far as holding positions in their church, they are semi-solid in their expectations for these people, but I've seen them use people I'd never personally feel like God would like for them to.

After spending more time with them, I learned that, since they're a family church, some stuff is conveniently swept under the rug because Susie Q is Aunt Anna Mae's daughter.

Stuff like that.

Re: From legalism to grace. Anyone read this book
 

My home church once enjoyed a healthy fellowship with this church, many years ago when its founding Mother was still at the helm. She was a jewel, or so I've been told, but she had gone on to be with the Lord long before I ever visited with my Mother.

She had, like many pastors I know, let the standard slide for her children, especially her three daughters, who likewise let the standard slide even further for their children. The grandchildren to this church's founding Mother have almost no relationship with God. Almost none of them attend church regularly, and even those that do, you would think they just walked out of the First Baptist church judging solely by their attire, attitude, and extra-circular activities outside church.

It's sinking. And fast.

But on a personal note, I can testify that I also know Jesus wants us all the come back to repentance after we've went astray. As I said, I spent a lot of time with the above mentioned group of people, and I found myself trying to convince my mind of things I knew God had told me was wrong. I remember coming to a crossroads: either I was going to continue backing up, grow distasteful of "church" and backslide entirely to the world, or I'd go back to what my home church had fed me and what God had already instilled in me.

I went back to my home church. I don't regret it. Not in the slightest.

Re: From legalism to grace. Anyone read this book
 

Legalism, when tangled with theology, is defined as a dependence on moral law rather than on personal religious faith.

This is precisely accurate. When I think of legalistic Christians, I think of a person who probably depends solely on things they see as rules, whether it be outward holiness, sustaining from the mingling with the world, or possessing a holier than thou façade.

I know some Apostolic people that are legalistic. They believe holiness, per masculine view, is "long sleeves and pants". I recall asking this guy if it ever started inward, and he said he felt it was more important for someone to dress right. It didn't surprise me though, because his church hasn't any idea about how to love people into the Truth. They have that "you're here, fall in line" mentality.

Re: From legalism to grace. Anyone read this book
 

This actually is NOT "precisely accurate". What if one's personal religious faith requires a "dependance on moral law"? The definition you posted is like saying "depending on regular maintenance rather than on one's relationship with the local auto shop." How is there even a contrast? Regular maintenance might very well be a substantial part of doing business with the local auto shop, and vice versa.

In reality, legalism is "anything that says I ought to do something I don't want to do." THAT'S how the term is actually used, and usage determines meaning.

Re: From legalism to grace. Anyone read this book
 

Re: From legalism to grace. Anyone read this book
 

No. All religion has moral law of some kind. Even the most antinomian liberalised heresies have SOME kind of moral law they demand obedience to.