Why Sunday
 

see in that the Christians did begin to gather together on Sunday in the New Testament.

[Act 20:7 NKJV] 7 Now on the first [day] of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul, ready to depart the next day, spoke to them and continued his message until midnight.

(labor and traders used to get their gain daily, so this is an actual Christian gathering)
[1Co 16:2 NKJV] 2 On the first [day] of the week let each one of you lay something aside, storing up as he may prosper, that there be no collections when I come.

[Rev 1:10 NKJV] 10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's Day, and I heard behind me a loud voice, as of a trumpet,

The name "Lord's Day" (different in greek to the "Day of the Lord") began to be used to refer to Sunday. As you can see in the early christian writings. So, it is probably correct to say that John was talking about Sunday.

Pulpit Commentary: The phrase had not yet become common in A.D. , as is shown from St. Paul writing, "on the first of the week" (1 Corinthians 16:2), the usual expression in the Gospels and Acts (Matthew 28:1; Mark 16:2; Luke 24:1; John 20:19; Acts 20:7; comp. Mark 16:9). But from Ignatius onwards, we have a complete chain of evidence that ἡ Κυριακή became the regular Christian name for the first day of the week; and Κυριακή is still the name of Sunday in the Levant. "No longer observing sabbaths, but fashioning their lives after the Lord's day" (Ign., 'Magn.,' 9.). Melito, Bishop of Sardis (A.D. 170), wrote a treatise περί Κυριακῆς (Eusebius, 'Hist. Eccl.,' IV. 26:2). Dionysius of Corinth (A.D. 175), in an epistle to the Romans, mentions that the Church of Corinth is that day keeping the Lord's holy day (Eusebius, 'Hist. Eccl.,' IV. 23:11). Comp. also Clem. Alex., 'Strom.,' VII. 12:98 (p. 377, Potter); Tertull., 'De Con.,' 3. and 'De Idol.,' 14, where Dominicus dies is obviously a translation of Κυριακὴ ἡμέρα; and fragment 7 of the lost works of Irenaeus.

I wonder if the gathering on the first day of the week was because the first Christians were Jews even the ones in exile, and they observed the Sabbath (Friday 6pm to Saturday 6pm), it was natural to keep going (since they didn't work that day) and gather with other Christians at homes after 6pm (Sunday at that point). Hence, Paul teaching until midnight "Paul, ready to depart the next day, spoke to them and continued his message until midnight."

Apparently, it became a day dedicated to seek the Lord together and do the Lord's Supper, that would work for both the Jews keeping the Sabbath and for the Gentiles.

Re: Why Sunday
 

Good question. Was Sunday the beginning of the week then? I don’t see any problem if you want to have service on Saturday morning or night. With that said we are creatures of habit, and tradition so I don’t see churches changing from Sunday to Saturday. Also, the church isn't the building you attend on service times. The church is us, its the bride of Christ, so wherever you go you can have church.

One thing to mention and I’m sure it would’ve come up, that the Old Testaments was Sabbath and we understand all that. Now, New Testament says that the Holy Ghost is our rest we don’t need a physical day to rest as long as were “current” in the Holy Ghost we have rest.

Re: Why Sunday
 

Brother, I am not advocating for Sabbath keeping. I am just curious about New Testament and very early writings about how the gathering on Sundays originated.

The first day of the week in the New Testament started on Saturday evening, at least for the Jews, and it seems to me natural that they still kept the Sabbath to go to the synagogues first and then gather in the evening with the brethren to break bread together and have a service. I may be wrong but I find it interesting, and I have not found any connection like this anywhere.
In addition to that, the resurrection and Pentecost were both on the first day of the week as Hebrews days (Sat 6pm to Sun 6pm).
All of that could have made the first day of the week the day of gathering and seeking the Lord together; later called "The Lord's day".

Re: Why Sunday
 

I take it then you work 7 days a week and likely would require any employees you might have to work 7 days a week, too?

Re: Why Sunday
 

Sunday was the day of the Sun in the Roman Empire. When the Constantine made Christianity the umbrella religion of the empire, he made Sunday the Church day. Why? Because Romans already were use to that being the day of the risen sun.

Re: Why Sunday
 

Pentecost was on a Sunday because the waving of the omer 50 days earlier happened to be on a Sunday that year. Which is why the resurrection happened on the first day of the week: that was the waving of the omer that year. Every year it might fall on a different day of the week, and thus so would Pentecost. This is why Christ was to rise "on the third day", not "on the first day of the week". There is literally zero significance to the first day of the week. Which is why the apostles and early Christians simply called it the first day of the week (while continuing to call the seventh day of the week "the sabbath").

There are no regular gatherings of Christians on the first day of the week recorded in Scripture. The ONE case in Acts was a meeting with Paul who was departing on the morrow (sunday morning), the meeting occurred at the end of the sabbath and went late into the night. Most sabbath keepers (that I know of, anyway) keep a service, however small or informal, at the end of the sabbath into the first day of the week. Jews do something similar. This was the origin of "vespers" or "evening service" by the way.

The day of the Sun god was never called "the Lord's Day" in the Bible, nor by anyone in post apostolic times except the catholic heretics. The only day of the week the Bible identifies as being "of the Lord" is the seventh day, which is the Sabbath, whose Lord is Jesus.

Sunday was sacred to many pagans, it was the day dedicated to the Sun and the sun god. Mithra, Sol Invictus, Amon-Ra, Baal, etc are all names for the sun god in different cultures. It was chosen by the catholic "fathers" because they were bringing in paganism. Constantine made it official. The whole thing is paganism, now with a Christian veneer. As all ancient pagans understood, every deity could go by many names. So Baal nowadays is mostly called "Jesus" by his followers. Another Jesus.

Re: Why Sunday
 

I want to believe you understand what I meant if I wasn't clear enough. My HVAC job I only work 20 hours or less, then rest of my week is for the church.

Re: Why Sunday
 

You said we don't need a day of rest.

Re: Why Sunday
 

20 hours or less? You must be making crazy folding money.

Re: Why Sunday
 

Acts 20:7 looks poorly translated. See here:

https://biblehub.com/interlinear/acts/20-7.htm

Ἐν δὲ τῇ μιᾷ τῶν σαββάτων

En de mia te ton sabbaton

It seems to read better simply as "Then, on one of the sabbaths...".

Re: Why Sunday
 

1 Corinthians 16:2 looks like it could be re-translated, too. See here:

https://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_corinthians/16-2.htm

κατὰ μίαν σαββάτου

kata mian sabbatou

It seems to read better simply as "According to each sabbath...".

In both cases, there is no word for "day", either in Acts 20:7 or in 1 Corinthians 16:2. Translators are reading the mia as an ordinal here, then reading sabbatos as a metonym for "week", thus thinking mia refers to the first of the week, which must refer to the first day. But that seems an overwrought attempt at defending (or perhaps concealing) an anti-Sabbath ideology that is otherwise absent from the Covenants of the Holy Scriptures, Old and New.

Re: Why Sunday
 

Perhaps the question should be reframed.

Which days of the week would it be impermissible to gather together for the purpose of worshiping God?

Re: Why Sunday
 

I am honestly not looking for a specific day, I was just curious about the Sunday thing. For me, each day is a valid day to seek God and gather with other saints.

Re: Why Sunday
 

HVAC is a great Business Trade. :thumbsup

Re: Why Sunday
 

There is no command in the New Testament to hold meetings on any certain day. If Sunday works easiest, then do so. I see no correction of anyone in the Book of Acts to not worship certain days but only on sabbath, nor do I see commands to only worship on Sunday. Either way, it’s not there in a commandment form, despite the fourth commandment, which I have shown is not an issue, seeing as we keep the sabbath day by learning to rest in Christ’s work.

1 Corinthians 16:2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

Sabbatarians explain that Paul did not want to have to collect money when he arrived, and rightly so. But the fact is that they gathered to collect money on that first day of the week, regardless. It does not mention that it was, therefore, the day that they always gathered. It is also true that Paul did not direct them to worship Sun-days. But that’s just the point! They did worship on Sundays, but not as a form of obedience to a commandment.

It is also insisted that nothing says that they had to leave their homes to do this. But that does not indicate they did not leave their homes. If people were told to gather money for Paul on the first day of the week, then it would be redundant and silly, to be honest, if it was to be done at home. What would make a difference between gathering funds on the third day of the week, if it was done at home? The only sense that there is in telling people to gather money on the first day was because they would meet together away from their homes in a com-mon house owned by one of them, or wherever. The location was not the issue.

There is no indication that it was not a time of worship for them. However, if Paul told them that they were to gather the first day of the week, it sounds like a regular thing, though not always every single week. It sounded like a thing to do temporarily for every first day of the week. The first day of the week was set aside, but only for so many weeks so far as gathering money was concerned. Since he said, “that there be no gatherings when I come,” then it would mean that it could not be every week of every year. If Paul was there, and they did this gathering every single week of the year, there would be gatherings when he came, which he distinctly said he did not want that to be the case.

At any rate, that does not mean that they did not gather for worship every first day. Why would he tell them to do this the first day of the week if they were gathering on sabbaths weekly, anyway? Why not collect the money on sabbath, if they regularly gathered there every week? It appears to say that they gathered the first day regularly, and in a certain period of time that Paul referred to was when they would gather money specifically to help the other churches. That would inform us that they were not gathering on sabbaths.

Why designate the first day of a certain period of time, if they weren’t already gathering that day? If they gathered on the sabbath for worship, why else would Paul tell them to gather again to raise money the very next day for a certain period of first days of the week gatherings, when it could have been done on the sabbath during regular times of worship?

Re: Why Sunday
 

"gathering" there means of collecting money as in "collections", not as in "us gathering together".

The first day of the week could be referring to the Jewish calendar, where the it started Saturday evening, after the Sabbath, but the same actual day as the Sabbath.

Re: Why Sunday
 

Thanks! But why bother to change the day of the week if they were already there on Sabbath a day before?

The point is that it is still not the seventh day to the Jews. So, if it was in the morning or evening after the sundown on saturday, it's still not sabbath. So, that would make it no difference if it was Sunday morning.

And, tying this to the preceding response you presented above, it's still changing days of the week from seventh to first of the next, in the eyes of their cultural adherents, again, making it no difference if it was Sunday morning.

Re: Why Sunday
 

Uh?

Re: Why Sunday
 

Everyone was to lay by him in store on the first of the week. This means on the first (day) of the week each person was to do his accounting and determine and set aside how much he was going to contribute to the Poor Jerusalem Saints' Relief Fundraiser. Such activities would likely not have been done on the Sabbath, so the first day of the week would make sense. The reason given was so that there wouldn't be a sudden hustling trying to figure out how much each could give when Paul showed up. Everything would be ready to go.

As a Sabbath keeper, I can say from personal experience that his instructions make perfect sense. For Sabbath keepers, the first day of the week serves as the "monday" if you will. Plans and preparations for the week are made on this day, including accounting of upcoming financial expenditures, etc. It just seems to work out that way if your life follows a Sabbath-based pattern. Has for us, anyways.

There were no regular church gatherings on the first day of the week in the Bible. In Acts it was a special after Sabbath meeting because Paul was leaving on the morrow. In the passage in Corinthians there is no church gathering or assembly in view at all, it is personal and family/household financial allocation of funds for a specific particular act of charity.

Re: Why Sunday
 

Any day the sermon is on Abraham's tithing, I guess?

Re: Why Sunday
 

Well, the disciples gathered daily for multiple reasons: you can simply search for "daily" in the book of Acts.

But for whatever reason, Sunday became the day over time. We meet on Sunday twice an twice during the week. Sunday is definitely a tradition at this point. It is off for most people, even for many of those that work 6 days a week.

Re: Why Sunday
 

The question then is mian sabbatou etc a common first century Greek phrase for "first of the week" or "one of the sabbaths" ?

Re: Why Sunday
 

That "whatever reason" was the pro-Sunday anti-Sabbath position of the Church of Rome being enforced throughout catholicism until it was official Holy Tradition, then being continued by Protestants who sought to divorce it from Holy Tradition and Magisterium by concocting "Sabbath transference" theories interpreting the fourth commandment as applicable to Sunday, followed by evangelical Protestants and Pentecostals not wanting to go against the tide of both religious and secular tradition.

Re: Why Sunday
 

Jesus arose the first day of the week.

He appeared to Thomas the next first Day of the week.

Paul preached the first day in Acts 20:7.

1 Cor 16 says they were to gather offerings for Paul on the first day.

Paul said that he lived AS a Jew to win the Jews, and he preached in synagogues on the sabbath, not to hear a sermon for himself, but to reach the jews gathered together to learn about God, meaning it was not their "church gather".

There is no note about the church keeping sabbath and attending church meetings in anything near or close to the references that refer to the first day of the week that distinctly mention the church and the first day. Why don't we read the church gathered the seventh day? The church gathered Sabbath? We only read of Paul reaching Jews in synagogues on sabbath, and nothing about the actual church being directed and/or said to do things on the seventh day.

If the two references in Acts 20 and 1 Cor 16 were not about church gatherings on the first day, they're still distinctly for the church and on the first day, and nothing similar can be found about sabbath for the church to offset the lean toward First Day worship. It's always only Paul preaching to jews on the sabbath.

It's far too vague to use anything in the New Testament to promote sabbath keeping. Like so many other beliefs, if that were the case there would have been much more elaboration made about it in the epistles and Acts than there is, if it were true.

Re: Why Sunday
 

Not because of any significance to the first day of the week. Rather, the significance was the "third day" after crucifixion. That third day happened to be on the first day of the week that year. The profession of faith in 1 Cor 15 makes no mention of the first day, but rather "the third day".

John 20:26 shows that He appeared to Thomas on a Monday at the earliest, most likely a Tuesday.

He may have preached ON the first day of the week in that verse but I doubt he "preached the first day" in that verse. lol Anyways, that was a special meeting because he was leaving the next morning (going on a journey on sunday). Besides which common early Christian and first century Jewish custom was to gather for prayer at the end of the Sabbath during a meeting that bridged the end of the Sabbath and the beginning of the first day. Jews call it havdalah (separation), Christians called it Vespers or Lamplighting. It usually included the Lord's Supper or bread breaking and fellowship meal, still common among Sabbath keepers, some Orthodox churches, and most orthodox synagogues.

It was a collection for poor Christians in Jerusalem in anticipation of a prophesied famine, financial business and accounting usually takes place on the first day of the week for Sabbath keepers.

Gentiles requested and he agreed to preach the gospel to them more in depth, on the next Sabbath. He taught circumcision and uncircumcision aren't what matters but what matters is keeping the commandments of God. He specificly ruled out any commandment breaking as being incompatible with the Christian faith. Living as a Jew does not refer to obeying God's commandments, but refers to his conformity to CUSTOM when in company with Jews (as long as said custom did not include separation from Greek believers).

Actually there is a ton of "note" but antisabbatarians ignore it. The mere fact the New Testament thoroughly and consistently refers to the seventh day of the week as "the Sabbath" says a lot. Especially considering non Sabbath keepers don't speak that way unless they are arguing against the Sabbath. The faulty premise underlying all these errors is "if it isn't spelled out in the NT it didn't happen and is not applicable." But this is backwards not only to logic but the NT itself. The proper approach is "unless the NT says otherwise all things remain in place."

If the Sabbath had been abrogated or replaced, it would create just as much if not more controversy than the issue of circumcision and the Levitical offerings. Those latter two disputes are detailed thoroughly throughout the NT. The supposed abrogation or modification of the Sabbath? Crickets. Ergo, you have it backwards. The lack of Sabbath polemics in the NT is prima facie evidence it wasn't a debated issue.

Re: Why Sunday
 

I agree some people do it for that reason. But it's not the only one. Multitudes of people believe like me that there is no more holy days and that the Lord arose Sunday, Jesus showed Thomas his wounds Sunday, Paul preached Sunday, and Paul collected offerings Sunday. Not a holy day, no better day than any other. But linked to spiritual events with a spiritual message of the first day -- new creation, not old creation's seventh day.

Re: Why Sunday
 

There is much more in Galatians 4 which has always been my main argument as you know. The antecedent for the tutors and governors under which Israel, in times before Christ came, were taught is not pagan calendar days but Gal 3's refernec et law as a schoolmaster.

That alone seals it for me, and these other references are strong supports, far more than there is anything for sabbath day worship of the early church. Far more.

Re: Why Sunday
 

Without realising it, you are arguing for Sunday sacredness. Spiritual significance... that's why we gather every single Sunday to corporately worship God... Friend, that is the very essence of "holy day keeping".

As for new creation, the Sabbath is part of the new heavens and new earth (Isaiah 66:22-23).

Re: Why Sunday
 

If the law as a tutor means the 4th commandment need not be obeyed once one becomes a Christian, then not only may the Christian dispense with Sabbath keeping, but they may dispense with every other commandment of God as well, for exactly the same reason.

Re: Why Sunday
 

We talked abut this before. God does not require me to go to church sabbath or Sunday. That's the bottom line.

Arguing about what you assume my belief leads to, or it's alleged logical conclusion that I don't engage in, is not actually dealing with what I believe.

Re: Why Sunday
 

Strawman because as I explained many times sabbath is fulfilled not replaced or abrogated. The shadow days are gone.

Re: Why Sunday
 

Actually it isn't a strawman. You argue law was a tutor therefore we aren't under the tutor therefore we don't keep the Sabbath day holy. The same reasoning applies to everything comprehended under the term "law".

Re: Why Sunday
 

I am dealing with what you SAY. The logical conclusions to your arguments are what they are.

Re: Why Sunday
 

The tutor role was the mundane shadow preparing for the spiritual rest Christ would bring. Fulfilled, again. The concept or principle led to the actuality in the spirit. It made the reality in the spirit easy to understand.

Re: Why Sunday
 

No and it is not dealing with what I believe and what i say I believe. The logical conclusion is where I stand now, not something I do not stand in.

Re: Why Sunday
 

Sounds great! I mean seriously I agree with this. BUT if one concludes from this "therefore we don't have to do what the fourth commandment says to do" then it necessarily applies to every jot, tittle, both tablets of the Big Ten and everything in between - in the same exact way.

Re: Why Sunday
 

If we follow Paul's narrative in the sequence he gave it to the church there, reading through chapter 3 and on into chapter 4 in the order he wrote it, we do not come across any reference to idols until 4:8.

Galatians 4:8.. Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.

You claim that is what elements oo the world and tutors and governors refer to in verses 2-3, or at least elements of the world (if perhaps you recognize tutors and governors of verse 3 as LAW). That is by no means the antecedent to verses written before it. Note what is written before verse 8.

Galatians 4:1-7.. Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all; ..(2).. But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father. ..(3).. Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world: ..(4).. But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, ..(5).. To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. ..(6).. And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. ..(7).. Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

To follow Paul's context, you cannot take verse 8 and claim that is the antecedent of what verses 2 and 3 refer to as tutors and governors, or the elements of the world. How on earth can tutors and governors refer to the same thing that "service unto them which by nature are no gods" refers to?..

Tutors and governors are the schoolmaster that Paul mentioned in chapter 3! And that is LAW! How can you not see that? LAW is the antecedent for the reference to elements of the world, and tutors and governors.

To take something written AFTER verses 3 and 4, such as verse 8's reference to "service unto them which by nature are no gods," and claim that is "the elements of the world" is to violate all grammar and comprehensive reading. ANTE in ANTECEDENT means BEFORE. You do not write about something, such as "elements of the world" and "governors and tutors" and mean idolatry and paganism that is not written until afterwards, if those phrases actually refer to idolatry. You look at what is written before verses 3 and 4 of chapter 4 to find the antecedent, and lo and behold that is LAW in Chapter 3. In fact, it repeats LAW in 4:5.

To say that his readers knew what he meant about idolatry, as though idolatry was what those phrases in verse 3 and 4 actually meant, without Paul having to actually write the reference to idolatry before verses 3 and 4 is grand assumption and inserting into the text things which you cannot prove whatsoever.

The reason he mentioned "service unto them which by nature are no gods" is because these pagans weer involved in the Old Covenant as converts to it before they came to Christ, and Pau noted that they were returning to bondage of law, which is what the warder references of chapter 3 already stated quite clearly.

He, therefore, mentioned "service unto them which by nature are no gods" as a side thought that they were orginally pagans before they came into Judaism, after which they were saved by Christ, and not the basic reference he's using to compare to tutors and governors who oversee an heir.

Re: Why Sunday
 

Not really. It's not not doing the day but doing what the day foreshadowed.

The temple was a shadow so we don't have a temple. Sacrifices were Shadows of Christ too. We dont offer animals still, though.

Re: Why Sunday
 

Are trinitarians genuine monotheists?

My point is that some of your arguments necessarily lead to conclusions. Whether you adhere to your argumentation all the way to their logical end or not doesn't change what those arguments actually consist in.

Example: "We have church every Sunday because of spiritual reasons..." Conclusion? You keep Sunday as a holy day (a day separate and distinct from other days). You disagree with that conclusion, and I understand why. But the conclusion is there nonetheless. Holy means separate and dedicated to divine purposes. There you have it. Sundaykeeping isn't "whatever was required under the 4th commandment is now applied to Sunday" necessarily. It is at its most basic the regular observance of Sunday as a day devoted to religious practices, you do Sundays differently than you do the other days of the week.

Example: We're not under the law, it has been fulfilled, therefore we don't need to do the specific thing the law said to actually do. So pick any command, and this reasoning applies.

Re: Why Sunday
 

Gotta go to bed. That alarm rings awful early in the morning... lol