Have Apostolic Churches changed since 2005?
 

So I can't remember the last time I stepped foot in an Apostolic Church. I estimate 2005 but that may not be the exact year.

How have things changed since then?

Re: Have Apostolic Churches changed since 2005?
 

There is no one size fits all answer. It would have to be a case by case analysis. So, why not step into one and find our for yourself?

Re: Have Apostolic Churches changed since 2005?
 

:thumbsup

Re: Have Apostolic Churches changed since 2005?
 

Obviously. But that doesn't mean you can't share your perspective.

1. Because It 5:30 AM on a Saturday morning.
2. Because this is a discussion forum - and so you should discuss the topic instead of immediately discount it as you are doing
3. Because as you noted - your experience could be different than mine

Thus, stepping into 1 isn't possible at this very moment and even if I could it simply cannot answer my question as sufficiently as asking for community input of individuals from various apostolic churches.

Re: Have Apostolic Churches changed since 2005?
 

Speaking from just my own experience I can say:

There are no more set aside times for testimonies. There is no what used to be called "shouting". They do not teach "be perfect".

Re: Have Apostolic Churches changed since 2005?
 

Re: Have Apostolic Churches changed since 2005?
 

The lack of teaching or belief In being "made perfect" has become normative in most churches. And I visit around a lot , lots of fellowship meeting and political correctness(code name love and kindness)runs the pulpits.

Re: Have Apostolic Churches changed since 2005?
 

The way I always see it happen is, they preach a message about holiness or hit on it for a minute. Then they say "Im not talking about being perfect". "Anyone here think their perfect"? So what was gained?

As far as fellowship goes I have never been part of a mainstream Apostolic Church that encourages it.

Re: Have Apostolic Churches changed since 2005?
 

One of my beliefs is that, you will have good fellowship when you find people who want to be perfect. My expectation of the standard for church is not that everyone has to be perfect, but they need to have an earnest desire to be made perfect. The moment someone professes that you cant be perfect , then there is a high potential of never being so. I have not met anyone who I think is perfect, but I have met some who strive to be. Some dont today , but then later they change and do strive that way. The bible message is "let everyone that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity". When we sin do we feel we have let God down? Why would he be let down about something he has put beyond our control.

I went to the Lord about this very idea. How that we struggle against sin and the flesh, but yet we are not perfect. The Lord has never rebuked me for approaching him with this train of thought. He did speak to me in a dream , in which I put this dilemma of "the struggle" before him. He conveyed to me that we had better earnestly be in the struggle. In other words we better be pressing for the place where we have the victory over the thing we are struggling with. If we are not pressing for that place of victory, then we have given in to this idea that perfection is impossible.

The apostle Paul said it best in Philippians: 8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;

11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,

14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you

Re: Have Apostolic Churches changed since 2005?
 

Exactly. We will never be perfect until we are given our glorified bodies, but we need to strive for perfection while here on earth.

Re: Have Apostolic Churches changed since 2005?
 

Then the ministry has certainly failed their job.

Col. 1:28

Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

Re: Have Apostolic Churches changed since 2005?
 

Romans 6 seems pretty clear on continuing in sin.

1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

And perhaps most importantly,

16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Re: Have Apostolic Churches changed since 2005?
 

Is there still running around the church, walking on pews, and convulsing onto the floor?

Re: Have Apostolic Churches changed since 2005?
 

Perfection - like holiness - is a process, not an immediate result. Just as we walk in holiness, in order to be holy, we must strive for perfection, in order to be perfect. Let's go back a few verses from the one you posted, to Col. 1:22-23

First he says that the body of Christ, through death, was to present us holy, unblameable and unreprovable (in other words: perfect). Then he goes on to qualify that with "If ye continue in the faith". So long as we live in these earthly bodies, we will need to crucify the flesh and "continue in the faith". Once our bodies have been glorified, there will be no need to strive for perfection, as we will be made perfect at that time.

Re: Have Apostolic Churches changed since 2005?
 

Still happens at my local church. Now the convulsing on the floor stops pretty quick as soon as we cast out the devils ( after they puke all over the carpet ) but yah still happens.

Re: Have Apostolic Churches changed since 2005?
 

Walking on the pews?

Re: Have Apostolic Churches changed since 2005?
 

Just to be clear,

Still running around the church
Still walking on pews
Ceased devilless floor convulsing

Re: Have Apostolic Churches changed since 2005?
 

What about holiness or hell messages? Still a thing?

Re: Have Apostolic Churches changed since 2005?
 

No. Not where Ive been.

Re: Have Apostolic Churches changed since 2005?
 

Not near enough.

Re: Have Apostolic Churches changed since 2005?
 

Amen:highfive

Re: Have Apostolic Churches changed since 2005?
 

Why are people walking on pews?

Re: Have Apostolic Churches changed since 2005?
 

Out of all the things I asked about that is the one that grabbed your attention :spit

Re: Have Apostolic Churches changed since 2005?
 

Yes. What is the point in that?

Re: Have Apostolic Churches changed since 2005?
 

Ask the preachers who have done it?

Re: Have Apostolic Churches changed since 2005?
 

I have not seen it in an Apostolic Church. I did see it in the Freewill Baptist Church I went to decades ago as well as in Trinity Pentecostal.

They say they are overwhelmed by the Spirit to do it.

Re: Have Apostolic Churches changed since 2005?
 

I thought you disapproved of "shouting"? Seems I remember you speaking against that awhile back.

Anyway, all these generalised statements about "apostolic churches" are ridiculous. Never mind that a lot of so called Oneness Pentecostal "churches" aren't apostolic to begin with. Acts 2:38 is NOT the sum total of the apostles' doctrine.

We ALWAYS have testimonies. Every church that I have ever been a part of (except the brief time we languished in a charismatic church) had testimony time. And even THAT place would occasionally mention praise reports from the members.

I have not been a member of a no shout church. And wouldn't. Don't have to shout ever time all the time, but a straight up "no shouting here" church? Won't see me there.

Most of the churches I have been involved with in my life, the oneness pentecostal ones, taught be ye perfect. Not always as clearly as perhaps might be done, but I have never been a part of a church that taught you can't stop sinning. Except for that charismatic church, that is.

First message I ever preached as a young man was in a UPC, and included the declaration "You weren't BORN a sinner, you CAN be saved from all your sin" and the pastor jumped up and shouted amen and didn't sit back down till next service.

I don't know what kind of churches you've been visiting, but I'd say you need to get out more often.

Re: Have Apostolic Churches changed since 2005?
 

My first pastor made sure we knew that “everyone sins everyday” was a lie.

Re: Have Apostolic Churches changed since 2005?
 

I dont know that I said I disapproved of it. When I say "shouting" what I mean could be a combination of dancing, jerking, running and literal shouting. I have seen all this in Apostolic Churches long ago but not in recent years.

It not that Im against these things but I am ministered to more by more "Charismatic" type worship. The Apostolic Churches I have been around lately are doing this more than the other.

Well he is asking what we as individuals have seen. Im simply reporting. I fully realize there are thousands of what are called Apostolic Churches and I have been in maybe about 20 mostly as a visitor. Nonetheless I have been Apostolic myself since 1980 so I know somewhat about these things having heard and seen things also on the net.

But I also agree the sum total of the Apostles doctrine is more than Acts 2:38. Thats the problem I have in being part of the "movement".

And about all Churches USED to have testimonies. Usually in every meeting. I can say for sure there is no testimony service or set aside time for them in the 3 Churches I have been with in later years. The Charismatic groups I used to be around always had them and so did Apostolics in the past. That doesnt mean there NEVER are testimonies. Just that its not a regular part of the meeting.

I have never heard perfection preached in an Apostolic Church. They all preach what they call "holiness" but they all (in my experience) make sure to explain their not talking about sinless perfection. They count it as false doctrine.

Admittedly there are thousands of local Churches I have not been to. I have tried various livestreams. I believe that Oneness and Acts 2:38 Churches have more truth than most simply on the basis of those 2 things. Yet the more I have "gotten out" over the years has increased my disappointment with them.

BUT.....I believe there must be good Churches somewhere. So I would recommend the thread starter Bro. Frog to start searching around. He may find something great and be able to share it with others who are looking.

Re: Have Apostolic Churches changed since 2005?
 

Well we have chairs but walked over them plenty of times

Re: Have Apostolic Churches changed since 2005?
 

We don't use pews now,,we wwlk on folding chairs.

If we really feel it we might slam a chair over someone's back.

Due to inflation, tithing has gone up from 10% to 15.4%

We give out Mc Donald's monopoly game cards in exchange for offerings.

Oh...and preachers are "mailing" it in from home

Re: Have Apostolic Churches changed since 2005?
 

LOL.

Good to see you around Prax.

Re: Have Apostolic Churches changed since 2005?
 

Because why???

Re: Have Apostolic Churches changed since 2005?
 

Thanks for the report and additional info Michael.

Re: Have Apostolic Churches changed since 2005?
 

Why not?

Re: Have Apostolic Churches changed since 2005?
 

Looks stupid.

Re: Have Apostolic Churches changed since 2005?
 

The floor is lava, my children tell me.

Re: Have Apostolic Churches changed since 2005?
 

And?

Re: Have Apostolic Churches changed since 2005?
 

That’s the point.

Re: Have Apostolic Churches changed since 2005?
 

I’ve been to lots of places where people do stuff that others thinks looks stupid. Our human emotion is limited and sometimes we do stupid looking stuff because of it. What is wrong with that? You must be one of them dignified folks that stand there and do nothing at church and criticize others??. Keep looking out the window if you want....