The Manchild Ministry 45 Minutes
 

Re: The Manchild Ministry 45 Minutes
 

The woman in the vision is Israel. Israel consisted of 12 tribes and produced the Messiah Who is to rule all nations with a rod of iron. The dragon attempted to destroy the Messiah beginning at His birth but He ascended to the throne of God in heaven. The dragon lost his position of power in the heavenlies and sought to destroy Israel (God's people) but she (they) were protected in the wilderness.

The idea that the woman is the church and man child is some "end time ministry" is based on numerous fundamental errors, the biggest one being not understanding the relationship between Israel and the church. Many mistakenly believe the church is a separate entity from Israel. That is incorrect. The church is the 12 tribes of Israel which have entered the new covenant. The church has always been Israel since the Exodus, and still is. Israel is the BRIDE:

Jeremiah 3:12-14 KJV
Go and proclaim these words toward the north, and say, Return, thou backsliding Israel, saith the Lord ; and I will not cause mine anger to fall upon you: for I am merciful, saith the Lord, and I will not keep anger for ever. [13] Only acknowledge thine iniquity, that thou hast transgressed against the Lord thy God, and hast scattered thy ways to the strangers under every green tree, and ye have not obeyed my voice, saith the Lord. [14] Turn, O backsliding children, saith the Lord ; for I am married unto you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion:

Israel was divorced by God:

Isaiah 50:1 KJV
Thus saith the Lord, Where is the bill of your mother's divorcement, whom I have put away? or which of my creditors is it to whom I have sold you? Behold, for your iniquities have ye sold yourselves, and for your transgressions is your mother put away.
Jeremiah 3:6-8 KJV
The Lord said also unto me in the days of Josiah the king, Hast thou seen that which backsliding Israel hath done? she is gone up upon every high mountain and under every green tree, and there hath played the harlot. [7] And I said after she had done all these things, Turn thou unto me. But she returned not. And her treacherous sister Judah saw it. [8] And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.

Israel was to be restored under Messiah:

Hosea 1:9-11 KJV
Then said God, Call his name Lo-ammi: for ye are not my people, and I will not be your God. [10] Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God. [11] Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezreel.

This began to be fulfilled in the first century new covenant ekklesia:

Romans 9:22-26 KJV
What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: [23] And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, [24] Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? [25] As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved. [26] And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.

So the church is in fact reclaimed Israel, operating under the new covenant:

Ephesians 2:12-13 KJV
That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: [13] But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

The church is a part of Israel, it is that part which has entered the new covenant and which holds legal title to the name of Israel as the betrothed of God. It is described here:

Revelation 12:17 KJV
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Re: The Manchild Ministry 45 Minutes
 

God has given the book of Revelation particularly chapter 12 for our encouragement. Those who live at that time (maybe us) are going to be needing it.

Re: The Manchild Ministry 45 Minutes
 

(maybe us)

...maybe...

Futurism in a nutshell.

Re: The Manchild Ministry 45 Minutes
 

The "manchild ministry" is the gospel of Jesus Christ coming forth from the church. Nothing exclusive to a chosen few "super Christians," but is simply the ministry of Jesus that they tried to stifle and kill, but... Rev 12:11.. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death...

Re: The Manchild Ministry 45 Minutes
 

Sorry but the man child ministry is an old guy, his wife, and his two dogs in a trailer. Preaching on YouTubes to 10 people.

Re: The Manchild Ministry 45 Minutes
 

Those who watch the videos will see the Biblical evidence and judge for themselves.

Re: The Manchild Ministry 45 Minutes
 

They sure will Mike. They sure will. :heeheehee

Re: The Manchild Ministry 45 Minutes
 

"Maybe" is better than attempting to force historical information that in no way fufills Bible prophecy.

For example the 5th trumpet was the Islamic invasions.

The historical view teaches this without shame.

The prophecy states the "plague" or judgment lasts five months. Rev. 9:5 Historists say it was hundreds of years.

An example of trying to force an interpretation onto a prophecy. Then with all boldness they criticize futurism for saying "maybe".

Re: The Manchild Ministry 45 Minutes
 

1. You just flat out lied. You did it once before, and it was explained to you. So your repeating your fake news information is prima facie evidence you are a straight up fraud.

2. Futurism reduces to nothing more than "maybe". /debate

3. Being a liar and one who has ZERO inclination and ability to defend your doctrine puts you squarely in the category of a false teacher. You do this with pretty much EVERY. SINGLE. WACKO. DOCTRINE. of yours.

1, 2, and 3 together = 4. It is a waste of time to interact with you. Which is why you are now permanently on the pay no mind list.

5. To help prevent the spread of your nonsense, I will continue to post refutations of your silliness, for the benefit of the readers.

Enjoy.

Re: The Manchild Ministry 45 Minutes
 

I guess I didnt lie and what I said is NOT fake news.

Enjoy.

https://revelationtimelinedecoded.co...-revelation-9/

Add to your joy.

Historists Interpretation...TC ALLEN.

Does this sound like 5 months?

Plenty of these historist sites but these should suffice to expose the error.

I defend my doctrine in the 2 videos. You have defended yours.

Since you consider me a liar what would be gained by discussing with you?

Re: The Manchild Ministry 45 Minutes
 

If there are questions or comments about what I have taught in the 2 videos ask. If anyone simply posts what they believe and is not engaging in what I teach on the videos thats up to them. I reserve the right to do the same in their threads.

Re: The Manchild Ministry 45 Minutes
 

Those that read the Bible will see the woman in Rev 12 is the church, and the manchild is the gospel of Jesus Christ coming forth from the church.

Re: The Manchild Ministry 45 Minutes
 

Agreed the woman is the Church. How is the manchild the gospel?

BTW did you watch the videos?

Re: The Manchild Ministry 45 Minutes
 

If the woman is the church, and Mystery Babylon is the United States?

When were prophets and saints killed in the United States?

Re: The Manchild Ministry 45 Minutes
 

The manchild is Jesus, and the woman, which is the church is to send forth the message of Jesus Christ. That is the mission of the church. They tried to destroy the gospel of Jesus from the beginning, and persecuted the church to kill that message, but protected her.

Re: The Manchild Ministry 45 Minutes
 

Mike what’s the flood that attempts to carry the woman away?

Re: The Manchild Ministry 45 Minutes
 

The manchild is the overcomers.

Rev. 2:26-27

26And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: 27And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

Note that JESUS SAID to the overcomers THEY would rule the nations with a rod of iron. Same as is said of the manchild. They are the same.

Rev 12:4

4And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

The devil tried to destroy the manchild but he was caught up to God. When Jesus was born he was not caught up to God. He moved to Egypt, returned grew up around Galilee and then began his ministry.

30 some years later he was caught up to God.

Re: The Manchild Ministry 45 Minutes
 

I explained it in the video. You did not watch?

Psalms 18:4

4The sorrows of death compassed me, and the floods of ungodly men made me afraid.

Isaiah 59:19

19So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him.

Re: The Manchild Ministry 45 Minutes
 

Who protected her?

Re: The Manchild Ministry 45 Minutes
 

The woman is Israel and the man child is Jesus Christ.

Re: The Manchild Ministry 45 Minutes
 

Jesus was caught up to his throne as national Israel will be harassed by Satan during the Great Tribulation.

Re: The Manchild Ministry 45 Minutes
 

The 144,000 are killed by the devil at the end of chapter 12, and found in heaven in chapter 14.

Re: The Manchild Ministry 45 Minutes
 

Sean, did you watch Mr Mike’s video?

Re: The Manchild Ministry 45 Minutes
 

Mike it's an hour long. You are hard to listen to, because you are slow. Not mentally, but just communicating your thoughts and reading to your audience. Watch Brother Blume's videos, he is lively, he encourages his audience to get involved. You on the other hand have zero presence. I'm not saying that because of my low respect that I hold for you. Or because I don't like you. In other words, going through your video for an hour is a bit of work. I take only sections at a time, and have to keep going back through the video. If I don't understand something or how you explain a verse. then I have you here to clarify. Is that OK Mr Mike?


So, the water coming out of the dragon are soldiers? Are sinners? Are Judaizers? The Government of the United States? The FBI, the ATF?

How does the earth swallow up these men?

Re: The Manchild Ministry 45 Minutes
 

I get the bolded. God made me what I am. I have to deny myself to do videos. I do it not to be seen and praised by men. I do it for the truths sake. On occasion some have said they like my videos. It is what it is.

The earth swallowing up the flood is symbolic of what God can do to his enemies. We are not given to know every detail about everything but in general I would say it might look like this.

Psalms 18: 6-13

6In my distress I called upon the LORD, and cried unto my God: he heard my voice out of his temple, and my cry came before him, even into his ears.
7Then the earth shook and trembled; the foundations also of the hills moved and were shaken, because he was wroth.
8There went up a smoke out of his nostrils, and fire out of his mouth devoured: coals were kindled by it.
9He bowed the heavens also, and came down: and darkness was under his feet.
10And he rode upon a cherub, and did fly: yea, he did fly upon the wings of the wind.
11He made darkness his secret place; his pavilion round about him were dark waters and thick clouds of the skies.
12At the brightness that was before him his thick clouds passed, hail stones and coals of fire.
13The LORD also thundered in the heavens, and the Highest gave his voice; hail stones and coals of fire.

The two witnesses maybe bringing forth destruction on them? Turning the light into darkness? Hiding his people in the secret place? Raining hail stones on them? God has various ways to "swallow up" his enemies and help his people.

Re: The Manchild Ministry 45 Minutes
 

Reminder:
The woman in the vision is Israel. Israel consisted of 12 tribes and produced the Messiah Who is to rule all nations with a rod of iron. The dragon attempted to destroy the Messiah beginning at His birth but He ascended to the throne of God in heaven. The dragon lost his position of power in the heavenlies and sought to destroy Israel (God's people) but she (they) were protected in the wilderness.

The idea that the woman is the church and man child is some "end time ministry" is based on numerous fundamental errors, the biggest one being not understanding the relationship between Israel and the church. Many mistakenly believe the church is a separate entity from Israel. That is incorrect. The church is the 12 tribes of Israel which have entered the new covenant. The church has always been Israel since the Exodus, and still is. Israel is the BRIDE:

Jeremiah 3:12-14 KJV
Go and proclaim these words toward the north, and say, Return, thou backsliding Israel, saith the Lord ; and I will not cause mine anger to fall upon you: for I am merciful, saith the Lord, and I will not keep anger for ever. [13] Only acknowledge thine iniquity, that thou hast transgressed against the Lord thy God, and hast scattered thy ways to the strangers under every green tree, and ye have not obeyed my voice, saith the Lord. [14] Turn, O backsliding children, saith the Lord ; for I am married unto you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion:

Israel was divorced by God:

Isaiah 50:1 KJV
Thus saith the Lord, Where is the bill of your mother's divorcement, whom I have put away? or which of my creditors is it to whom I have sold you? Behold, for your iniquities have ye sold yourselves, and for your transgressions is your mother put away.
Jeremiah 3:6-8 KJV
The Lord said also unto me in the days of Josiah the king, Hast thou seen that which backsliding Israel hath done? she is gone up upon every high mountain and under every green tree, and there hath played the harlot. [7] And I said after she had done all these things, Turn thou unto me. But she returned not. And her treacherous sister Judah saw it. [8] And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.

Israel was to be restored under Messiah:

Hosea 1:9-11 KJV
Then said God, Call his name Lo-ammi: for ye are not my people, and I will not be your God. [10] Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God. [11] Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezreel.

This began to be fulfilled in the first century new covenant ekklesia:

Romans 9:22-26 KJV
What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: [23] And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, [24] Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? [25] As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved. [26] And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.

So the church is in fact reclaimed Israel, operating under the new covenant:

Ephesians 2:12-13 KJV
That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: [13] But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

The church is a part of Israel, it is that part which has entered the new covenant and which holds legal title to the name of Israel as the betrothed of God. It is described here:

Revelation 12:17 KJV
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Re: The Manchild Ministry 45 Minutes
 

Why is the woman Israel when we have New Testament doctrine like this? What glorious woman were Apostles concerned about?

Ephesians 5: 25-32

25Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; 26That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, 27That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. 28So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. 29For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: 30For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. 31For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. 32This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

The same Apostle:

2 Cor. 11:

1Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me. 2For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

Rev. 19:7-8

7Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. 8And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

The woman is the Church.

Re: The Manchild Ministry 45 Minutes
 

Amen Mike, your right on!!!

Re: The Manchild Ministry 45 Minutes
 

That’s not very nice!

Re: The Manchild Ministry 45 Minutes
 

Here, dear reader, is an example of willfully ignoring what is presented to you.

This was addressed twice in this very thread, it was the very first comment posted in response to the original post. Yet, the author pretends the answer to his question has not been provided.

"Why would the woman of Revelation 12 be Israel, when the New Testament is clearly all about the church?"

From the answer that was originally provided:

The idea that the woman is the church and man child is some "end time ministry" is based on numerous fundamental errors, the biggest one being not understanding the relationship between Israel and the church. Many mistakenly believe the church is a separate entity from Israel. That is incorrect. The church is the 12 tribes of Israel which have entered the new covenant. The church has always been Israel since the Exodus, and still is. Israel is the BRIDE:

Jeremiah 3:12-14 KJV
Go and proclaim these words toward the north, and say, Return, thou backsliding Israel, saith the Lord ; and I will not cause mine anger to fall upon you: for I am merciful, saith the Lord, and I will not keep anger for ever. [13] Only acknowledge thine iniquity, that thou hast transgressed against the Lord thy God, and hast scattered thy ways to the strangers under every green tree, and ye have not obeyed my voice, saith the Lord. [14] Turn, O backsliding children, saith the Lord ; for I am married unto you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion:

Israel was divorced by God:

Isaiah 50:1 KJV
Thus saith the Lord, Where is the bill of your mother's divorcement, whom I have put away? or which of my creditors is it to whom I have sold you? Behold, for your iniquities have ye sold yourselves, and for your transgressions is your mother put away.
Jeremiah 3:6-8 KJV
The Lord said also unto me in the days of Josiah the king, Hast thou seen that which backsliding Israel hath done? she is gone up upon every high mountain and under every green tree, and there hath played the harlot. [7] And I said after she had done all these things, Turn thou unto me. But she returned not. And her treacherous sister Judah saw it. [8] And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.

Israel was to be restored under Messiah:

Hosea 1:9-11 KJV
Then said God, Call his name Lo-ammi: for ye are not my people, and I will not be your God. [10] Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God. [11] Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezreel.

This began to be fulfilled in the first century new covenant ekklesia:

Romans 9:22-26 KJV
What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: [23] And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, [24] Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? [25] As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved. [26] And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.

So the church is in fact reclaimed Israel, operating under the new covenant:

Ephesians 2:12-13 KJV
That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: [13] But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

The church is a part of Israel, it is that part which has entered the new covenant and which holds legal title to the name of Israel as the betrothed of God. It is described here:

Revelation 12:17 KJV
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

The modern errorists insist upon a clearly unbiblical narrative: "God had a bride in the old testament, Israel, but He divorced her and took a completely different bride in the new testament, the Church."

Sorry, but that is completely unbiblical. God had a bride in the old testament, Israel, and yes He divorced her. But He promised she would be brought back to Him.

Paul explained how the law has authority over a person until they die. So that a woman, married to a man, if she leaves her husband and shacks up or "marries" another man is an adulteress. Why? Because she is bound by the law to her first husband. But what happens if the husband dies? According to Paul and common sense, she is loosed from her first husband and is free to marry another.

Israel's husband incarnated and DIED. She was free from her first marriage. Is she free to marry somebody else? A pagan god? Her husband RESURRECTED so she could REMARRY HIM.

The Law says:

When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house. And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man's wife. And if the latter husband hate her, and write her a bill of divorcement, and giveth it in her hand, and sendeth her out of his house; or if the latter husband die, which took her to be his wife; Her former husband, which sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after that she is defiled; for that is abomination before the LORD: and thou shalt not cause the land to sin, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.
(Deu 24:1-4)

The first husband had to die (and raise again) in order for God to reclaim His Bride. She had to be released from the law of marriage that prevented their reunion. Moreover, SHE has to die as well, which is what baptism is all about.

Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
(Rom 7:4)

The church is new covenant Israel. Not a new entity that calls itself Israel, but Israel from the old testament entered into the new covenant. The church is not a separate entity from Israel.

The woman in Revelation 12 is Israel:

And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
(Rev 12:1)

Compare:

Thou art beautiful, O my love, as Tirzah, comely as Jerusalem, terrible as an army with banners. Turn away thine eyes from me, for they have overcome me: thy hair is as a flock of goats that appear from Gilead. Thy teeth are as a flock of sheep which go up from the washing, whereof every one beareth twins, and there is not one barren among them. As a piece of a pomegranate are thy temples within thy locks. There are threescore queens, and fourscore concubines, and virgins without number. My dove, my undefiled is but one; she is the only one of her mother, she is the choice one of her that bare her. The daughters saw her, and blessed her; yea, the queens and the concubines, and they praised her. Who is she that looketh forth as the morning, fair as the moon, clear as the sun, and terrible as an army with banners? I went down into the garden of nuts to see the fruits of the valley, and to see whether the vine flourished, and the pomegranates budded. Or ever I was aware, my soul made me like the chariots of Amminadib. Return, return, O Shulamite; return, return, that we may look upon thee. What will ye see in the Shulamite? As it were the company of two armies.
(Son 6:4-13)

Remember, Israel, the beloved bride of Jehovah, consisted of TWO HOUSES (Judah, and the rest of the tribes called Israel). Two hosts or armies, but ONE BELOVED BRIDE.

The twelve stars are the twelve tribes. The sun and moon are an allusion to Jacob and Rachel:

And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me. And he told it to his father, and to his brethren: and his father rebuked him, and said unto him, What is this dream that thou hast dreamed? Shall I and thy mother and thy brethren indeed come to bow down ourselves to thee to the earth?
(Gen 37:9-10)

The sun and moon can certainly be compared to other things, as the "glory of God which clothes her and the glory of man which is under her feet". And certainly she is clothed with CHRIST who is the brightness and glory of the invisible God. But if anything these additional comparisons simply strengthen the fact that the woman is Israel, the BIDE OF JEHOVAH.

And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
(Rev 12:5)

Whom did Israel bring forth? Who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron? Who was in danger of being destroyed by the devil and the power of darkness, but who triumphed in victory and ASCENDED TO THE THRONE OF GOD? None other than Christ.

Is the church in view here? YES, insofar that the church is IN CHRIST:

And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
(Rev 2:26-27)
To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
(Rev 3:21)

The Bride is ISRAEL:

And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
(Rev 21:12)

The Bride is Israel UNDER THE NEW COVENANT:

And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
(Rev 21:14)

And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
(Rev 12:17)

Re: The Manchild Ministry 45 Minutes
 

And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
(Rev 12:5)

More error on display. It is assumed by the charismatic "man child ministry" promoters that the term "her child" means "her INFANT BABY" if applied to Jesus. But that is not AT ALL the case. The word child simply means offspring. Notice:

And now, Lord, behold their threatenings: and grant unto thy servants, that with all boldness they may speak thy word, By stretching forth thine hand to heal; and that signs and wonders may be done by the name of thy holy child Jesus.
(Act 4:29-30)

Were they praying for baby Jesus to do miracles on behalf of the apostles? No, obviously. Yet Jesus is called God's "child" even after He ascended into heaven.

The verse in Revelation says NOTHING WHATSOEVER about how much or how little time passed between her giving birth and the child (son) being caught up to God.

EDIT: One more note. Mike is a "post tribulation rapture" proponent. Yet, he has identified the catching up of the manchild as an actual ascension to heaven or "Rapture". Therefore, if Mike's objection to the identification of the manchild with Jesus is correct, then consistency demands that the manchild ministry that Mike promotes will be RAPTURED ALMOST IMMEDIATELY UPON ITS APPEARANCE.

Let me repeat that: if Mike's objection is correct, then to be consistent the manchild ministry will be RAPTURED ALMOST IMMEDIATELY AFTER IT COMES INTO EXISTENCE.

So then Mike is a partial rapturist, he believes the end time overcomers will be RAPTURED AS SOON AS THEY APPEAR ON THE SCENE.

But Mike, of course, disavows any rapture belief EXCEPT post trib rapture. This is yet one of many numerous examples of Mike's inconsistencies in his doctrine. And why the inconsistencies? Because his doctrine is a patchwork of ideological slogans, not actual Bible doctrine.

Re: The Manchild Ministry 45 Minutes
 

The time frame is clear. The devil was waiting to destroy the child as soon as it was born. When it is born it is caught up to the throne and the mother flees into the wilderness for 3.5 years.

Rev 12:5

5And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. 6And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

When the manchild is caught up the the woman (following verse) heads to the wilderness.

This is reiterated a few verses later.

Rev 12:

13And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child. 14And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

On the other hand Jesus first ministered on earth for several years before returning to Heaven.

If the woman were Israel that would have HER fleeing to the wilderness for 42 months. But for what purpose? Israel was NOT persecuted for the following 42 months nor fled to the wilderness.

Re: The Manchild Ministry 45 Minutes
 

Based on bible precedence it would be Israel.

Genesis 37:9
King James Version
9 And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.

Re: The Manchild Ministry 45 Minutes
 

The great red dragon corresponds to Daniel 7:6-7.
Daniel 7:6-7, persecution from empire.

King James Version
6 After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.

7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.

Re: The Manchild Ministry 45 Minutes
 

You speak like a dragon.

If you had listened to what I taught in the video you would not have bothered with this personal attack. I explained it quite thoroughly. I wont call you a liar for it but you are misrepresenting my post trib position. Sometimes people (like you just did) jump the gun before hearing what the other guy is saying. They are not deliberately lying they just lack information.

The manchild caught up to God is symbolic. It speaks of Gods people, a remnant of them who were brought forth from the woman approximately 42 months before Christ returns. They are going to receive an experience like several apostles had.

They were caught up or taken to Heaven for Gods purpose and THEN.....returned to earth.

Rev 4:1

1After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter. 2And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

John the apostle was taken to the throne and shown many visions. He did not STAY in Heaven. He came back to minister on the earth.

Paul went and came back.

2 Cor. 12:1-4

1It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord. 2I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven. 3And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) 4How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

Did Paul STAY in Paradise? Or was he found back down on the earth afterwards doing ministry?

The manchild overcomers will have a like experience. They will then be able to FEED the woman in the wilderness.

Rev 12:

5And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. 6And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Who are THEY who will feed the woman? The overcomers among her.

They will have returned for this cause.

Dan. 11:31-35

31And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate. 32And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits. 33And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days. 34Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries. 35And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.

They themselves along with the rest of the womans seed will continue in the 42 month end time tribulation until Jesus comes and gathers together his elect AFTER the tribulation of those days. The manchild ministry will be to feed, nourish the woman (Church) for 1260 days from the face of the serpent.

So yes my belief in the post trib rapture is both true and consistent.

Re: The Manchild Ministry 45 Minutes
 

Here Mike establishes the foundation for the manchild ministry being raptured almost immediately upon coming on the scene. I was not aware Mike believed in a partial pretrib rapture. According to his line of reasoning, the manchild ministry is the "overcomers". So according to Mike's doctrine, the overcomers will be raptured prior to the Second Advent. This is either a pretrib rapture scenario (where the lukewarm non-overcomers are left behind) or a mid-trib rapture scenario (where, again, the lukewarm non-overcomers are left behind).

And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
(Rev 12:5-6)

Why, yes, surprise surprise, it is in fact HER that fled into the wilderness for 42 months. Isn't that fascinating? Notice how Mike argues that if the woman were Israel "it would have been HER fleeing to the wilderness for 42 months" and lo and behold in the verse we see HER fleeing into the wilderness to be taken care of for 1,260 days - which is 42 months.

He also asks "But for what purpose?" Amazing, Mike doesn't know why the devil would persecute the people of God!

He also says "Israel was NOT persecuted for 42 months nor fled into the wilderness for 42 months." How does he know that? If the woman is Israel, and the woman fled into the wilderness for 42 months, then Israel fled into the wilderness for 42 months. If the woman is Israel, and the woman is persecuted, then Israel is the one being persecuted. So, apparently the whole thing hinges on whether or not the woman is Israel.

Which I have proven it is in fact Israel. Mike of course claims the woman is the church. The manchild whose destiny is to rule all nations with a rod of iron is clearly Christ. Who else COULD it be? "Oh" Mike says, "the woman is the church and the son is the overcomers." So the overcomers - which are the church - are birthed by the church? The church gives birth to the church?

Is this like his Logos created the Logos doctrine? Apparently so.

"Oh" Mike says, "the overcomers are a special segment of the church." Really? Now where does that come from?

The word "overcomers" does not appear in the Bible anywhere.

The word "overcome" appears 13 times in the New Testament:

Luk_11:22.. But when a stronger than he shall come upon him, and overcome him, he taketh from him all his armour wherein he trusted, and divideth his spoils.
Joh_16:33.. These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.
Rom_3:4.. God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
Rom_12:21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.
2Pe_2:19.. While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
2Pe_2:20.. For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
1Jn_2:13.. I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father.
1Jn_2:14.. I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.
1Jn_4:4.. Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
Rev_11:7.. And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
Rev_13:7.. And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
Rev_17:14.. These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

Only 4 verses speak of a category of people who are said to have overcome something and are thus "overcomers":

Rom_12:21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.
1Jn_2:13 I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father.
1Jn_2:14 I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.
1Jn_4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

The first verse is a command to all Christians to overcome evil with good.
The next three are statements that Christians have overcome the wicked one and the antichrists in the world.

There is ZERO SCRIPTURE to even remotely suggest that the "overcomers" are a "special subgroup" of the church. The overcomers are the saved. They are the church.

He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
(Rev 2:7)

The ones who will partake of the tree of life are the saints.

He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
(Rev 2:11)

The overcomer is the one who will not be hurt by the second death. These are the ones described as "the first resurrection" upon whom the second death has no power. They are the saved.

And on and on. Each of the letters to the seven churches ends with a promise to "he that overcomes". Those promises are not to a special branch of the church, but to the church. Those who overcome are those who have faith in Christ:

1Jn_5:4.. For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
1Jn_5:5.. Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

Being an overcomer means being a faithful Christian. It does not mean being a special segment of the church, some kind of higher calling, some kind of special "end time ministry" or "end time revival".

This entire doctrine of the "end time manchild ministry" is pure Latter Day Rain / Shepherding Movement / Charismatic / New Wine / New Apostolic Reformation false doctrine. It is completely unbiblical, has no Scriptural support, relies entirely on wresting the Scriptures by false teachers using great swelling and empty words of vanity to beguile unstable souls who do not know the Scriptures in any meaningful way, and is internally inconsistent, NECESSARILY leads to pretrib or midtrib rapture foolishness (as I have already proven), and is just literally a load of bunkum.

Re: The Manchild Ministry 45 Minutes
 

Are you saying the dragon in Rev. 12 is NOT the devil? The old serpent?

Rev. 12: 12-13 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
13And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

No doubt the DEVIL will USE the empire of the beast to persecute the Church but why take him out of the context of Rev. 12?

Re: The Manchild Ministry 45 Minutes
 

And I see now that Mike is teaching the end time overcomer ministry will be raptured as soon as it comes on the scene and then will come back to the earth to finish out the tribulation.

Wow. Just wow. Curiouser and curiouser.

Oh, and apparently I "speak like a dragon"? Even though Mike has been caught flat out lying here in this very thread? And all I have been doing is pointing out the ridiculousness of Mike's false doctrine?

Fascinating.

So Mike believes Satan is going to land in a space ship, the lukewarm church will produce an end time army of overcoming supersaints who get raptured and then return to the earth to endure the tribulation then get raptured again at the final battle when the incarnate Logos who created Himself back in eternity past returns to defeat the antichrist.

Should make for a cool movie.

Re: The Manchild Ministry 45 Minutes
 

I wonder if Mike can tell us why the devil has seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns?