If vaccines work...
 

If vaccines work and actually protect the vaccinated from severe symptoms, hospitalization and death, then why does it matter that some other person chooses to be unvaccinated?

Re: If vaccines work...
 

Therein lies the rub.

Re: If vaccines work...
 

Oh they work alright. Just not "as advertised."

Re: If vaccines work...
 

More vaccinated means less severe symptoms and esser time to be contagious, which means less severe infections over all and maybe faster end to the pandemic.

My wife and daughter just had it, my daughter was vaccinated and my wife wasn't.

We are starting to see more covid patients where I work and the local hospitals are filling up with them.

Re: If vaccines work...
 

Is she Schrodinger's wife? :heeheehee

Re: If vaccines work...
 

Oops 😬 I meant my daughter was vaccinated and my wife was not.

Re: If vaccines work...
 

I have asked the same question. I have seen some very angry post on social media from people who are vaccinated toward unvaccinated. Why are they so angry? What are they scared of? If they believe that the vaccine works are they not protected? If they are so against the unvaccinated then leave us alone.. if your theory is correct then we will all die off.

Re: If vaccines work...
 

Another thing ... The same group that was screaming "voter suppression" because ID's are just so hard to get for rural and poor and minorities are now pushing for vaccination cards. "They are just so easy to get . You can even get them on your phone."

Re: If vaccines work...
 

Now .. here is my conspiracy theory. What if the vaccine is really a true vaccine .. just not for COVID but for another planned virus release that will happen in the future and eliminate all those unvacced???

Re: If vaccines work...
 

Agreed - well at least for the initial strain. We really aren't sure if the vaccine or natural immunity will be better for the variants that are coming. In fact, there's even some questions about whether the vaccine is the catalyst for some of these variants. Normal immune response tends to be a bit more 'broad spectrum'. This vaccine is very specific in what it tells your body to fight against and a totally different kind of vaccine than those that came before it. Meaning, vaccinated people may actually be helping drive up the number of 'vaccine resistant' variants.

https://www.npr.org/2021/02/09/96570...vid-19-mutants

The initial hope was that herd immunity either via vaccination or natural immunity would be enough to end the pandemic. There's some serious questions on whether either of those things are achievable now due to the rise in covid-19 variants all over the world. It's conceivable that the pandemic will never be 'over'. That ultimately we are just going to have to learn to live with it.

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2021-...-immunity.html

Yep. And it's terrible and sad. But I think it's a distinct possibility we will ultimately harm more people by locking everything down. Poor, hungry and stressed people statistically have much worse medical outcomes afterall.

#TheScienceIsn'tSettled

Re: If vaccines work...
 

The media teaches that unvaccinated and unmasked people are bad. Once you establish who is bad in the minds of the koolaid drinking majority of subservient Americans, you can isolate the rest and increase pressure on them to become compliant little citizens or suffer the consequences, where anything goes as far as repercussions for being disobedient are concerned.

Re: If vaccines work...
 

And what an easy boogeyman the unvaccinated are. They jump into deep and crazy conspiracy theories and genuinely believe them. They aren't weighing all the science, they look for any scientific sounding fact they can hold up to justify their conspiracy theory guided views.

That said, there are good reasons to be skeptical. All the data isn't in. The science isn't settled.

Re: If vaccines work...
 

All things being equal, it's not good for them if the unvaccinated get sick and die off either. Less people means a labor disruption - meaning jobs will be lost and retraining will have to occur. Less people means falling home prices, generally a bad thing. Hospitals filled up with sick covid patients means worse medical care for the vaccinated.

But maybe more importantly, the hope is that the pandemic will end - and it's probably not going to. The unvaccinated are the scapegoat that gets blamed for that not materializing.

Re: If vaccines work...
 

The reason why it won't isn't because of unvaccinated, but because the United States (as many other first world countries) are super unhealthy.

Re: If vaccines work...
 

No disputing that USA isn't very healthy - especially south eastern USA. But that isn't why it won't end. Healthy people and unhealthy people get the virus.

Re: If vaccines work...
 

However.. in a pure socialistic environment labor, jobs, home prices , nor full hospital beds really matter.

Re: If vaccines work...
 

You are incorrect.

Re: If vaccines work...
 

Actually healthy people don't get the virus. If they do, they don't even notice it, and therefore aren't placed in any statistics. Now, we may give some personal testimonies about so n so is healthy, but he or she got the virus. Well, if they go the virus they weren't healthy. When the black plague hit Europe it changed the known world. Those who survived the plague survived because of health. Not because they were CrossFitters But because they were healthy, genetically strong.

Re: If vaccines work...
 

So what "deep and crazy conspiracy theories" have I espoused?

Actually, I find many non vaccinated people are more informed, because they're constantly being forced to verify data due to badgering from others (such as Scott).

Science is a process, not a conclusion in and of itself. There are things that anyone can confirm, and as such it's "settled" because everyone agrees on it; but if someone can come along and provide an alternate theory with proof, then they're still "following the science", even if they may end up being wrong.

Re: If vaccines work...
 

Today, I received nature's inoculation from Covid. My test came back positive. Therefore, I am now inoculated. No vaccine needed.

Re: If vaccines work...
 

:highfive :thumbsup

Re: If vaccines work...
 

How are you feeling?

Re: If vaccines work...
 

He probably feels 10 foot tall and bulletproof. :thumbsup

Re: If vaccines work...
 

Tired, if I sit still. If I keep moving or stay busy I don't feel a thing. I have had very little fever. My appetite is good. Mild headache.

Re: If vaccines work...
 

A friend of mine said he got up every 2 hours at night and walked around his house to keep the fluid from going to his lungs. He had breathing problems all through his life but the Covid did not touch his lungs. He may be on to something.

Re: If vaccines work...
 

Mine was mild for about four days. Then it got serious. I slept for nearly three days, near continuously. Then I got better. Keep an eye on your oxygen saturation would be my advice. I pray that it continues to be a mild case. It can be very serious.

Re: If vaccines work...
 

Did you have to stay in the hospital?

Re: If vaccines work...
 

This! My oxygen was in the 80’a when the ambulance came for me. It had probably been like that for days.

Re: If vaccines work...
 

I appreciate you verifying that. I know from experience that you will be absolutely inundated with advice from everyone to your third cousin, so I hesitate to say anything. I was told to get up and keep moving. I ignored that advice because my body was absolutely desperate for sleep. So I slept. I believe it was the best thing to help me recover.

Re: If vaccines work...
 

No I didn’t. I was advised to and there were times when it seemed like it might not be a bad idea but I really thought that I was better off staying at home. In my case I think it was best. Ironically, I’m of the opinion that I actually contracted it in the hospital.

Re: If vaccines work...
 

I was having difficulty breathing for days. For some reason I slept fine.

Re: If vaccines work...
 

I didn’t really have a lot of trouble breathing but I did cough up a lot of junk for about two weeks.

Re: If vaccines work...
 

You seriously, actually believe your "positive test result" has any actual validity? After all that's been ADMITTED BY THE CDC, WHO, and everybody else involved in promoting the idea of "covid19"?

Or are you being ironic?

And if you are being ironic... why did you get a covid "test" to begin with?

Re: If vaccines work...
 

The brother who I'm in the gym equipment business with wife went for a COVID test. She was feeling pretty much like the testimonies here, but had a high fever. She was tested after weeks had gone by she called them. She asked if her test was positive. They said they misplaced the test. The woman on the phone said she would call back once she found the test. She never called back. My brother's wife called again, and the woman said it was positive. She then asked for a copy of the test, but there seemed to be an issue. She then was given over to the doctor, who said that she wasn't positive. So, who do you believe? But this is only one witness, that I personally know about.

Re: If vaccines work...
 

America's Frontline Doctors www.aflds.org (go to the covid-19 tab) are offering telehealth visits for $90 and can prescribe you a drug like ivermectin or hydroxychloroquine. For anyone who has the symptoms, or has been exposed to the virus, you should see if you can find a doctor to prescribe this for you. If you can't, you can go to the AFLDS website.

Also, if anyone has an albuterol nebulizing machine, use this to help keep your airways open. My parents who are 70 had the virus, and used the albuterol nebulizer, and they recovered at home without any serious issues. My dad has had several heart bypasses, and my mom has asthma. My MIL who is in a nursing home had the covid, and was deteriorating with extremely difficult breathing and I had the nursing home put her on albuterol nebulizer, and she began to get better within a day of getting on the nebulizer.

There are treatments available, just don't wait until you are too sick to start them. The ivermectin or HCQ needs to be started as soon as you believe you have been exposed to covid.

Re: If vaccines work...
 

Here is the link for the actual website where you can have a telemed visit with a physician. Apparently they are overwhelmed, so you could also investigate your area, to see if there is a physician who will prescribe the medication for you.

https://americasfrontlinedoctors.org...19-medication/

Re: If vaccines work...
 

Analysis of all-cause mortality by week in Canada 2010-2021, by province, age and sex:
There was no COVID-19 pandemic, and there is strong evidence of response-caused deaths in the most elderly and in young males

https://denisrancourt.ca/entries.php...in_young_males

Re: If vaccines work...
 

I certainly have something.

Re: If vaccines work...
 

Sounds like you have COVID. Positive test and COVID symptoms are two strong pieces of evidence.

If someone had flu symptoms and tested positive for the flu everyone here would believe they had the flu. Same thing happens with COVID but the anti-science don’t believe it because no matter what evidence you provide their minds are already made up.

Re: If vaccines work...
 

To be fair, especially early one, there was a lot of false negatives that were classified as C19. Many stories made the rounds of people being tested twice, one came up negative and the other positive. One guy had two tests at the same time run, once in each nostril, and they had different results.

It's not completely unfounded to be suspicious about the results.