Apostolic Friends Forum
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page

Apostolic Friends Forum (https://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/index.php)
-   Fellowship Hall (https://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=7)
-   -   An Exhortation (https://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=54660)

votivesoul 03-23-2022 02:03 PM
An Exhortation
 
1 John 3:4,

4. Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

In the Holy Scriptures, particularly the Scriptures of the Old Testament, but also in the New, that which is clearly demarcated as "sin", in our world, would be more easily recognizable as "crime".

Take a look for yourself some day. In the Law and Prophets, but also in the Psalms, the Scriptures show that things like bribery, extortion, perjury, theft, rape, murder, attempted murder, slander and libel, misappropriation of funds, unequal weights and measures to gain advantage, baiting and switching in business, manipulating the system to oppress and injure the under-privileged or marginalized population, and finally, turning a blind eye to all these crimes (and more not listed!) are sins that God detests.

So, when John writes that sin is the transgression of the law, it is important to think in terms of criminal behavior. We have to first, see how our sins are really crimes, and then see how our crimes affect the larger community of people around us, whether inside our families, our churches, our workplaces, our hometowns, our nations, and/or even our world.

In the end of all things, for so many of the human race, the last words all these lost souls are going to hear is "Depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness", which is just another way of calling these doomed "sinners" criminals.

When Jesus said He came to fulfill the law, it wasn't just mere moral or cultic laws of the people of God and of His temple and its priesthood. It was also the full standard of all that God's holiness and righteousness demands in order to satisfy the wrath and death sentence for all people for all times in all places against the cumulative sin debt of the entire human race.

In order to fulfill such a law, Christ had to live above transgressing, or sinning, against the Father, by failing to keep God's laws. When we are in solidarity with the Messiah, and have our spiritual identity in Him by faith and active belief, we too, must fulfill the same law as Christ by living above such transgressions, or sins, against the Father.

Thank you, God, for presenting us with the Holy Spirit, that we may be empowered to do just that!

Saints and brethren, let your faith continually come through hearing, even as you let your hearing come entirely, and exclusively, from the Word of God.

There is no sin in your life that you cannot overcome, for this is your faith:

1 John 5:4,

4. For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

Crimes against God and His laws do not have the right to reign in your mortal bodies as long as you refuse to submit yourself to them. Whom the Son has made free is free indeed, and that freedom, friends, is the freedom from sin.

John 8:34-36,

34. Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
35. And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
36. If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
Since the Son of God abides forever, you no longer have to be a servant of sin forever, but rather, you can be free from your service to the flesh and the works therefore, forever.

Through the Holy Spirit and It granting you ever increasing Christ-likeness, you can begin to sin less and sin less and less and less until...? You guessed it! You can sin less and less until you are sinless.

1 John 1:5-10,

5. This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
6. If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Proverbs 28:13,

13. He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

There is nothing but the deception locked up in your souls that says you have to forever remain a sinner who can't help but walk in darkness and sin everyday of your life. You can today, right this very moment, confess your sin and FORSAKE IT, and find mercy.

The way only seems strait and the gate only seems narrow to those who prefer the broad way and the open gate. But to those who find the eternal life promised to all through our Lord Jesus Christ, it is like as when Jacob first saw Rachel and worked fourteen long years for her hand in marriage, but found those years to be as nothing, for the prize of earning his bride.

What about us? Are we sick and tired of toiling away for the King of kings, complaining that He's making us wait too long for the prize we first desired as we laid spiritual eyes upon it back when we first believed?

No, my brothers and sisters! Let us not grow weary, but renew ourselves and continue to run and not give up! The very next breath you take is proof of another opportunity to subject yourself to the Law-Giver, to yield to His commands, to leave your life of "crime" behind, and find eternal rest for your soul, just as Jesus found eternal rest for His soul when He died on the cross.

So what I say to one I say to all:

DON'T QUIT!

Esaias 03-23-2022 02:23 PM
Re: An Exhortation
 
:thumbsup

MawMaw 03-23-2022 08:48 PM
Re: An Exhortation
 
Thank you, VotiveSoul!

Evang.Benincasa 03-23-2022 09:02 PM
Re: An Exhortation
 
:highfive

good samaritan 03-26-2022 07:19 PM
Re: An Exhortation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by votivesoul (Post 1608898)
1 John 3:4,

4. Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

In the Holy Scriptures, particularly the Scriptures of the Old Testament, but also in the New, that which is clearly demarcated as "sin", in our world, would be more easily recognizable as "crime".

Take a look for yourself some day. In the Law and Prophets, but also in the Psalms, the Scriptures show that things like bribery, extortion, perjury, theft, rape, murder, attempted murder, slander and libel, misappropriation of funds, unequal weights and measures to gain advantage, baiting and switching in business, manipulating the system to oppress and injure the under-privileged or marginalized population, and finally, turning a blind eye to all these crimes (and more not listed!) are sins that God detests.

So, when John writes that sin is the transgression of the law, it is important to think in terms of criminal behavior. We have to first, see how our sins are really crimes, and then see how our crimes affect the larger community of people around us, whether inside our families, our churches, our workplaces, our hometowns, our nations, and/or even our world.

In the end of all things, for so many of the human race, the last words all these lost souls are going to hear is "Depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness", which is just another way of calling these doomed "sinners" criminals.

When Jesus said He came to fulfill the law, it wasn't just mere moral or cultic laws of the people of God and of His temple and its priesthood. It was also the full standard of all that God's holiness and righteousness demands in order to satisfy the wrath and death sentence for all people for all times in all places against the cumulative sin debt of the entire human race.

In order to fulfill such a law, Christ had to live above transgressing, or sinning, against the Father, by failing to keep God's laws. When we are in solidarity with the Messiah, and have our spiritual identity in Him by faith and active belief, we too, must fulfill the same law as Christ by living above such transgressions, or sins, against the Father.

Thank you, God, for presenting us with the Holy Spirit, that we may be empowered to do just that!

Saints and brethren, let your faith continually come through hearing, even as you let your hearing come entirely, and exclusively, from the Word of God.

There is no sin in your life that you cannot overcome, for this is your faith:

1 John 5:4,

4. For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

Crimes against God and His laws do not have the right to reign in your mortal bodies as long as you refuse to submit yourself to them. Whom the Son has made free is free indeed, and that freedom, friends, is the freedom from sin.

John 8:34-36,

34. Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
35. And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
36. If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
Since the Son of God abides forever, you no longer have to be a servant of sin forever, but rather, you can be free from your service to the flesh and the works therefore, forever.

Through the Holy Spirit and It granting you ever increasing Christ-likeness, you can begin to sin less and sin less and less and less until...? You guessed it! You can sin less and less until you are sinless.

1 John 1:5-10,

5. This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
6. If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Proverbs 28:13,

13. He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

There is nothing but the deception locked up in your souls that says you have to forever remain a sinner who can't help but walk in darkness and sin everyday of your life. You can today, right this very moment, confess your sin and FORSAKE IT, and find mercy.

The way only seems strait and the gate only seems narrow to those who prefer the broad way and the open gate. But to those who find the eternal life promised to all through our Lord Jesus Christ, it is like as when Jacob first saw Rachel and worked fourteen long years for her hand in marriage, but found those years to be as nothing, for the prize of earning his bride.

What about us? Are we sick and tired of toiling away for the King of kings, complaining that He's making us wait too long for the prize we first desired as we laid spiritual eyes upon it back when we first believed?

No, my brothers and sisters! Let us not grow weary, but renew ourselves and continue to run and not give up! The very next breath you take is proof of another opportunity to subject yourself to the Law-Giver, to yield to His commands, to leave your life of "crime" behind, and find eternal rest for your soul, just as Jesus found eternal rest for His soul when He died on the cross.

So what I say to one I say to all:

DON'T QUIT!
Good post!

Originalist 03-28-2022 09:40 AM
Re: An Exhortation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by votivesoul (Post 1608898)
1 John 3:4,

4. Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

In the Holy Scriptures, particularly the Scriptures of the Old Testament, but also in the New, that which is clearly demarcated as "sin", in our world, would be more easily recognizable as "crime".

Take a look for yourself some day. In the Law and Prophets, but also in the Psalms, the Scriptures show that things like bribery, extortion, perjury, theft, rape, murder, attempted murder, slander and libel, misappropriation of funds, unequal weights and measures to gain advantage, baiting and switching in business, manipulating the system to oppress and injure the under-privileged or marginalized population, and finally, turning a blind eye to all these crimes (and more not listed!) are sins that God detests.

So, when John writes that sin is the transgression of the law, it is important to think in terms of criminal behavior. We have to first, see how our sins are really crimes, and then see how our crimes affect the larger community of people around us, whether inside our families, our churches, our workplaces, our hometowns, our nations, and/or even our world.

In the end of all things, for so many of the human race, the last words all these lost souls are going to hear is "Depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness", which is just another way of calling these doomed "sinners" criminals.

When Jesus said He came to fulfill the law, it wasn't just mere moral or cultic laws of the people of God and of His temple and its priesthood. It was also the full standard of all that God's holiness and righteousness demands in order to satisfy the wrath and death sentence for all people for all times in all places against the cumulative sin debt of the entire human race.

In order to fulfill such a law, Christ had to live above transgressing, or sinning, against the Father, by failing to keep God's laws. When we are in solidarity with the Messiah, and have our spiritual identity in Him by faith and active belief, we too, must fulfill the same law as Christ by living above such transgressions, or sins, against the Father.

Thank you, God, for presenting us with the Holy Spirit, that we may be empowered to do just that!

Saints and brethren, let your faith continually come through hearing, even as you let your hearing come entirely, and exclusively, from the Word of God.

There is no sin in your life that you cannot overcome, for this is your faith:

1 John 5:4,

4. For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

Crimes against God and His laws do not have the right to reign in your mortal bodies as long as you refuse to submit yourself to them. Whom the Son has made free is free indeed, and that freedom, friends, is the freedom from sin.

John 8:34-36,

34. Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
35. And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
36. If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
Since the Son of God abides forever, you no longer have to be a servant of sin forever, but rather, you can be free from your service to the flesh and the works therefore, forever.

Through the Holy Spirit and It granting you ever increasing Christ-likeness, you can begin to sin less and sin less and less and less until...? You guessed it! You can sin less and less until you are sinless.

1 John 1:5-10,

5. This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
6. If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Proverbs 28:13,

13. He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

There is nothing but the deception locked up in your souls that says you have to forever remain a sinner who can't help but walk in darkness and sin everyday of your life. You can today, right this very moment, confess your sin and FORSAKE IT, and find mercy.

The way only seems strait and the gate only seems narrow to those who prefer the broad way and the open gate. But to those who find the eternal life promised to all through our Lord Jesus Christ, it is like as when Jacob first saw Rachel and worked fourteen long years for her hand in marriage, but found those years to be as nothing, for the prize of earning his bride.

What about us? Are we sick and tired of toiling away for the King of kings, complaining that He's making us wait too long for the prize we first desired as we laid spiritual eyes upon it back when we first believed?

No, my brothers and sisters! Let us not grow weary, but renew ourselves and continue to run and not give up! The very next breath you take is proof of another opportunity to subject yourself to the Law-Giver, to yield to His commands, to leave your life of "crime" behind, and find eternal rest for your soul, just as Jesus found eternal rest for His soul when He died on the cross.

So what I say to one I say to all:

DON'T QUIT!
A great post that covers both the judicial and practical aspects of grace. The grace message is not complete unless both are presented.

Pressing-On 03-28-2022 11:02 AM
Re: An Exhortation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by votivesoul (Post 1608898)
1 John 3:4,

4. Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

In the Holy Scriptures, particularly the Scriptures of the Old Testament, but also in the New, that which is clearly demarcated as "sin", in our world, would be more easily recognizable as "crime".

Take a look for yourself some day. In the Law and Prophets, but also in the Psalms, the Scriptures show that things like bribery, extortion, perjury, theft, rape, murder, attempted murder, slander and libel, misappropriation of funds, unequal weights and measures to gain advantage, baiting and switching in business, manipulating the system to oppress and injure the under-privileged or marginalized population, and finally, turning a blind eye to all these crimes (and more not listed!) are sins that God detests.

So, when John writes that sin is the transgression of the law, it is important to think in terms of criminal behavior. We have to first, see how our sins are really crimes, and then see how our crimes affect the larger community of people around us, whether inside our families, our churches, our workplaces, our hometowns, our nations, and/or even our world.

In the end of all things, for so many of the human race, the last words all these lost souls are going to hear is "Depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness", which is just another way of calling these doomed "sinners" criminals.

When Jesus said He came to fulfill the law, it wasn't just mere moral or cultic laws of the people of God and of His temple and its priesthood. It was also the full standard of all that God's holiness and righteousness demands in order to satisfy the wrath and death sentence for all people for all times in all places against the cumulative sin debt of the entire human race.

In order to fulfill such a law, Christ had to live above transgressing, or sinning, against the Father, by failing to keep God's laws. When we are in solidarity with the Messiah, and have our spiritual identity in Him by faith and active belief, we too, must fulfill the same law as Christ by living above such transgressions, or sins, against the Father.

Thank you, God, for presenting us with the Holy Spirit, that we may be empowered to do just that!

Saints and brethren, let your faith continually come through hearing, even as you let your hearing come entirely, and exclusively, from the Word of God.

There is no sin in your life that you cannot overcome, for this is your faith:

1 John 5:4,

4. For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

Crimes against God and His laws do not have the right to reign in your mortal bodies as long as you refuse to submit yourself to them. Whom the Son has made free is free indeed, and that freedom, friends, is the freedom from sin.

John 8:34-36,

34. Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
35. And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
36. If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
Since the Son of God abides forever, you no longer have to be a servant of sin forever, but rather, you can be free from your service to the flesh and the works therefore, forever.

Through the Holy Spirit and It granting you ever increasing Christ-likeness, you can begin to sin less and sin less and less and less until...? You guessed it! You can sin less and less until you are sinless.

1 John 1:5-10,

5. This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
6. If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Proverbs 28:13,

13. He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

There is nothing but the deception locked up in your souls that says you have to forever remain a sinner who can't help but walk in darkness and sin everyday of your life. You can today, right this very moment, confess your sin and FORSAKE IT, and find mercy.

The way only seems strait and the gate only seems narrow to those who prefer the broad way and the open gate. But to those who find the eternal life promised to all through our Lord Jesus Christ, it is like as when Jacob first saw Rachel and worked fourteen long years for her hand in marriage, but found those years to be as nothing, for the prize of earning his bride.

What about us? Are we sick and tired of toiling away for the King of kings, complaining that He's making us wait too long for the prize we first desired as we laid spiritual eyes upon it back when we first believed?

No, my brothers and sisters! Let us not grow weary, but renew ourselves and continue to run and not give up! The very next breath you take is proof of another opportunity to subject yourself to the Law-Giver, to yield to His commands, to leave your life of "crime" behind, and find eternal rest for your soul, just as Jesus found eternal rest for His soul when He died on the cross.

So what I say to one I say to all:

DON'T QUIT!
Encouraging message. Just the little things that bug me and send up a red flag.

Quote:
Through the Holy Spirit and It granting you ever increasing Christ-likeness,…
An Apostolic would leave off the IT and say, “through the Holy Spirit and granting you ever increasing Christ-likeness.”

Adding “IT” suggests a separate entity in the context of that statement.

Quote:
Thank you, God, for presenting us with the Holy Spirit, that we may be empowered to do just that!
An Apostolic would say, “Thank you, God, for presenting us with YOUR Spirit, that we may be empowered to do just that.”

Adding “THE” when speaking directly to God suggests a separate entity in the context of that statement.

Tithesmeister 03-28-2022 02:16 PM
Re: An Exhortation
 
Would it be Apostolic to say the Holy Ghost?

If I prayed for Jesus to send the Holy Ghost to comfort me or someone else, would that be un-Apostolic?

[16] And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
[26] But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.


When Jesus said this above, was He being un-Apostolic?

Please inform me.

diakonos 03-28-2022 09:38 PM
Re: An Exhortation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pressing-On (Post 1609025)
Encouraging message. Just the little things that bug me and send up a red flag.



An Apostolic would leave off the IT and say, “through the Holy Spirit and granting you ever increasing Christ-likeness.”

Adding “IT” suggests a separate entity in the context of that statement.



An Apostolic would say, “Thank you, God, for presenting us with YOUR Spirit, that we may be empowered to do just that.”

Adding “THE” when speaking directly to God suggests a separate entity in the context of that statement.
You know he’s not oneness.

And “it”… as in that old song “I got it, I got it…”

diakonos 03-28-2022 09:41 PM
Re: An Exhortation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tithesmeister (Post 1609029)
Would it be Apostolic to say the Holy Ghost?

If I prayed for Jesus to send the Holy Ghost to comfort me or someone else, would that be un-Apostolic?

[16] And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
[26] But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.


When Jesus said this above, was He being un-Apostolic?

Please inform me.
I had a pastor who would do gymnastics after quoting a verse that would give the slightest impression that there could be more than 1. :lol

Pressing-On 03-30-2022 10:48 AM
Re: An Exhortation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tithesmeister (Post 1609029)
Would it be Apostolic to say the Holy Ghost?

If I prayed for Jesus to send the Holy Ghost to comfort me or someone else, would that be un-Apostolic?

[16] And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
[26] But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.


When Jesus said this above, was He being un-Apostolic?

Please inform me.
I believe that anytime we speak, our purview should always be I Corinthians 12:3, which recognizes that the Spirit of God is the Holy Ghost, and that by God’s Spirit we recognize that Jesus is the Lord God - who could only be God manifest in flesh.

1Co 12:3....Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

In the scripture you reference, John 14:16-19, we find Jesus giving clear instruction, which they will understand later. He will cover all elements of what He is about, placing them all on Himself.

He is physically with them, being their Comforter, but later He will comfort them by His Spirit. He explains that the “Spirit of truth” will be the Comforter that will come.

Jesus had already identified Himself as that “truth” in John 14:6. In John 14:17, Jesus identifies again that he is the Spirit of truth. He tells them that the world doesn’t see or know him, but they know him, because He (the Spirit of truth) dwells with them, but shall be in them. In John 14:18, He says “I will not leave them comfortless (orphans/fatherless), I will come to you.” He is identifying Himself as the Father.

In John 14:19-20, He assures them of a fellowship in the future - “I am in my Father, You in me, and I in you.”

When the Apostles prayed that a group would receive the Holy Ghost, they had full understanding of John 14. The Spirit of God, the mighty God in Christ Jesus.

My point is in the wording. Specifically, when speaking “TO” God, it is very nuanced to say, “Thank you, God, for presenting us with the Holy Spirit, that we may be empowered to do just that!” It speaks to me of a separate entity from God.

Because this is a discussion board, I came away with the impression that this lesson could be taught in a Baptist Church very handily. I have a sister who opposes me and has for years. So, I recognize what she will embrace or reject. I felt that I wanted to voice that here on an Apostolic Forum.

It is all about nuance, IMO.

diakonos 03-30-2022 11:02 AM
Re: An Exhortation
 
Quote:
My point is in the wording. Specifically, when speaking “TO” God, it is very nuanced to say, “Thank you, God, for presenting us with the Holy Spirit, that we may be empowered to do just that!” It speaks to me of a separate entity from God.
The Apostles didn’t feel the same as you do per the epistles.

Esaias 03-30-2022 11:54 AM
Re: An Exhortation
 
So what examples do we have of the apostles directly addressing God in prayer, so we can see what truly apostolic prayer looks like as far as the wording they used?

Pressing-On 03-30-2022 12:41 PM
Re: An Exhortation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias (Post 1609154)
So what examples do we have of the apostles directly addressing God in prayer, so we can see what truly apostolic prayer looks like as far as the wording they used?
At the outset, I believe it is important to understand the apostles purview of who God is when reading anything they say or do.

For instance, in Acts 2:36, “Therefore, Let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God has made that same Jesus, whom you have crucified, both Lord and Christ.”

They had a full understanding. When Jesus taught them to pray - Our Father, which art in heaven…”, they knew He was their father. They knew Isaiah 9:6.

What I go on is, how does that make me feel when I read what someone has written? When it feels off like this portion of Bevere’s book, a red flag comes up.

John Bevere in his book, The Bait of Satan, pg 26 - "Now do you think that when they sold him (Joseph) as a slave, God in heaven looked at the Son and the Holy Spirit and said, "What are We going to do now? Look at what his brothers have done. They have ruined Our plan for Joseph. We had better think of something quick! Do We have an alternate plan?"

Originalist 03-31-2022 09:59 AM
Re: An Exhortation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pressing-On (Post 1609158)
At the outset, I believe it is important to understand the apostles purview of who God is when reading anything they say or do.

For instance, in Acts 2:36, “Therefore, Let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God has made that same Jesus, whom you have crucified, both Lord and Christ.”

They had a full understanding. When Jesus taught them to pray - Our Father, which art in heaven…”, they knew He was their father. They knew Isaiah 9:6.

What I go on is, how does that make me feel when I read what someone has written? When it feels off like this portion of Bevere’s book, a red flag comes up.

John Bevere in his book, The Bait of Satan, pg 26 - "Now do you think that when they sold him (Joseph) as a slave, God in heaven looked at the Son and the Holy Spirit and said, "What are We going to do now? Look at what his brothers have done. They have ruined Our plan for Joseph. We had better think of something quick! Do We have an alternate plan?"
In Acts 2:36, God and Jesus are clearly distinguished, for some reason. It even states that Jesus is the recipient of something from God, being MADE both Lord and Christ.

seguidordejesus 03-31-2022 10:47 AM
Re: An Exhortation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pressing-On (Post 1609158)
At the outset, I believe it is important to understand the apostles purview of who God is when reading anything they say or do.

For instance, in Acts 2:36, “Therefore, Let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God has made that same Jesus, whom you have crucified, both Lord and Christ.”

They had a full understanding. When Jesus taught them to pray - Our Father, which art in heaven…”, they knew He was their father. They knew Isaiah 9:6.

What I go on is, how does that make me feel when I read what someone has written? When it feels off like this portion of Bevere’s book, a red flag comes up.

John Bevere in his book, The Bait of Satan, pg 26 - "Now do you think that when they sold him (Joseph) as a slave, God in heaven looked at the Son and the Holy Spirit and said, "What are We going to do now? Look at what his brothers have done. They have ruined Our plan for Joseph. We had better think of something quick! Do We have an alternate plan?"
Bevere has a mistaken notion of how the Trinity works if that's how he thinks of things.

Pressing-On 03-31-2022 12:07 PM
Re: An Exhortation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Originalist (Post 1609182)
In Acts 2:36, God and Jesus are clearly distinguished, for some reason. It even states that Jesus is the recipient of something from God, being MADE both Lord and Christ.
The reason is - Spirit and body. God/Spirit manifest in the flesh/Jesus Christ.

What you posted is a good exercise on where your mind (not yours specifically) is at. Do you see two or One? I see One.

This is a funny story . A couple of nights ago I was listening to Brother Bernard on YouTube. If you go onto a person’s channel and go into the playlist, it will stay on that and end at the last video on the list.

When I went onto Youtube, several of his messages were already in queue, so I didn’t go to his channel, turning on the first one. I fell asleep and later I heard someone say, words to effect, the third person in the Trinity or something along those lines. I immediately woke up and looked at my ipad to see what in the world was going on. The videos had rolled into a Charles Stanley message, which I hadn’t selected.

What I am saying is that even in my subconscious mind, I knew something said was “off” or wrong and it woke me up. I am more oneness than you. :heeheehee:

Pressing-On 03-31-2022 12:13 PM
Re: An Exhortation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by seguidordejesus (Post 1609183)
Bevere has a mistaken notion of how the Trinity works if that's how he thinks of things.
I acknowledge that there are people who claim to be Trinitarian who actually are not. However, Bevere shows the mindset of a true Trinitarian.

The book was recommended to me and I got as far as page 26 and gave it back. The person told me the book helped them. That is fine, but after page 26, it wouldn’t have helped me. Lol

seguidordejesus 03-31-2022 12:17 PM
Re: An Exhortation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pressing-On (Post 1609188)
I acknowledge that there are people who claim to be Trinitarian who actually are not. However, Bevere shows the mindset of a true Trinitarian.

The book was recommended to me and I got as far as page 26 and gave it back. The person told me the book helped them. That is fine, but after page 26, it wouldn’t have helped me. Lol
No he doesn't if he thinks they talk to each other. Tritheism and trinitarianism are not the same, no matter how much oneness tries to misrepresent them.

Pressing-On 03-31-2022 12:36 PM
Re: An Exhortation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by seguidordejesus (Post 1609189)
No he doesn't if he thinks they talk to each other. Tritheism and trinitarianism are not the same, no matter how much oneness tries to misrepresent them.
Definition of Trinity
1 : the unity of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as three persons in one Godhead according to Christian dogma

I think “persons” lends itself to Tritheism.

Evang.Benincasa 03-31-2022 01:55 PM
Re: An Exhortation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by seguidordejesus (Post 1609189)
No he doesn't if he thinks they talk to each other. Tritheism and trinitarianism are not the same, no matter how much oneness tries to misrepresent them.
How do One God people misrepresent Trinitarianism?

diakonos 03-31-2022 03:08 PM
Re: An Exhortation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by seguidordejesus (Post 1609189)
No he doesn't if he thinks they talk to each other. Tritheism and trinitarianism are not the same, no matter how much oneness tries to misrepresent them.
There are not three consciouses?

Esaias 03-31-2022 06:30 PM
Re: An Exhortation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by seguidordejesus (Post 1609189)
No he doesn't if he thinks they talk to each other. Tritheism and trinitarianism are not the same, no matter how much oneness tries to misrepresent them.
No one hath seen God at any time; the Only-begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, He hath declared Him [1406] . The Deity, therefore, is ineffable and incomprehensible. For no one knoweth the Father, save the Son, nor the Son, save the Father [1407] . And the Holy Spirit, too, so knows the things of God as the spirit of the man knows the things that are in him [1408] . Moreover, after the first and blessed nature no one, not of men only, but even of supramundane powers, and the Cherubim, I say, and Seraphim themselves, has ever known God, save he to whom He revealed Himself.
God, however, did not leave us in absolute ignorance. For the knowledge of God's existence has been implanted by Him in all by nature. This creation, too, and its maintenance, and its government, proclaim the majesty of the Divine nature [1409] . Moreover, by the Law and the Prophets [1410] in former times and afterwards by His Only-begotten Son, our Lord and God and Saviour Jesus Christ, He disclosed to us the knowledge of Himself as that was possible for us. All things, therefore, that have been delivered to us by Law and Prophets and Apostles and Evangelists we receive, and know, and honour [1411] , seeking for nothing beyond these. For God, being good, is the cause of all good, subject neither to envy nor to any passion [1412] . For envy is far removed from the Divine nature, which is both passionless and only good. As knowing all things, therefore, and providing for what is profitable for each, He revealed that which it was to our profit to know; but what we were unable [1413] to bear He kept secret. With these things let us be satisfied, and let us abide by them, not removing everlasting boundaries, nor overpassing the divine tradition [1414] .

- John Damascene, De Fide Orth., Book I, Chapter 1.

This is essentially what needs to be done. Unfortunately, too many are not satisfied with what God has revealed and seek to go beyond what we have been given by God and His prophets and apostles.

seguidordejesus 03-31-2022 06:42 PM
Re: An Exhortation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias (Post 1609205)
No one hath seen God at any time; the Only-begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, He hath declared Him [1406] . The Deity, therefore, is ineffable and incomprehensible. For no one knoweth the Father, save the Son, nor the Son, save the Father [1407] . And the Holy Spirit, too, so knows the things of God as the spirit of the man knows the things that are in him [1408] . Moreover, after the first and blessed nature no one, not of men only, but even of supramundane powers, and the Cherubim, I say, and Seraphim themselves, has ever known God, save he to whom He revealed Himself.
God, however, did not leave us in absolute ignorance. For the knowledge of God's existence has been implanted by Him in all by nature. This creation, too, and its maintenance, and its government, proclaim the majesty of the Divine nature [1409] . Moreover, by the Law and the Prophets [1410] in former times and afterwards by His Only-begotten Son, our Lord and God and Saviour Jesus Christ, He disclosed to us the knowledge of Himself as that was possible for us. All things, therefore, that have been delivered to us by Law and Prophets and Apostles and Evangelists we receive, and know, and honour [1411] , seeking for nothing beyond these. For God, being good, is the cause of all good, subject neither to envy nor to any passion [1412] . For envy is far removed from the Divine nature, which is both passionless and only good. As knowing all things, therefore, and providing for what is profitable for each, He revealed that which it was to our profit to know; but what we were unable [1413] to bear He kept secret. With these things let us be satisfied, and let us abide by them, not removing everlasting boundaries, nor overpassing the divine tradition [1414] .

- John Damascene, De Fide Orth., Book I, Chapter 1.

This is essentially what needs to be done. Unfortunately, too many are not satisfied with what God has revealed and seek to go beyond what we have been given by God and His prophets and apostles.
You are using an Orthodox saint who defended the Trinity to what, prove there isn't a Trinity? He was also a staunch defender of icons - what do you think of that?

He was pretty harsh on Islam, that would be worth reading.

Esaias 03-31-2022 06:47 PM
Re: An Exhortation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by seguidordejesus (Post 1609207)
You are using an Orthodox saint who defended the Trinity to what, prove there isn't a Trinity? He was also a staunch defender of icons - what do you think of that?

He was pretty harsh on Islam, that would be worth reading.
I know exactly who he is (my second favorite Orthodox theologian, behind Chrysostom). Mr Bevere is apparently a pop preacher, not a theologian. The Damascene however is the Aquinas of Orthodoxy, and his Exact Exposition of the Orthodox Faith is the Summa Theologica of Orthodoxy. His opening statements (which I quoted) are pretty much spot on and correct. Too bad he didn't follow his own advice though.

My point is that when we go beyond what is written in trying to explain the nature of God we usually fill our mouths with foolishness. This applies to everybody, Oneness, or non Oneness.

seguidordejesus 03-31-2022 06:56 PM
Re: An Exhortation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias (Post 1609208)
I know exactly who he is (my second favorite Orthodox theologian, behind Chrysostom). Mr Bevere is apparently a pop preacher, not a theologian. The Damascene however is the Aquinas of Orthodoxy, and his Exact Exposition of the Orthodox Faith is the Summa Theologica of Orthodoxy. His opening statements (which I quoted) are pretty much spot on and correct. Too bad he didn't follow his own advice though.

My point is that when we go beyond what is written in trying to explain the nature of God we usually fill our mouths with foolishness. This applies to everybody, Oneness, or non Oneness.
All I can say is that I am glad you like them.

Amanah 04-02-2022 03:15 AM
Re: An Exhortation
 
Would it be correct to say:

There cannot be an eternal Son of God because Sonship implies creation, such and humans and angels, and God manifest in the flesh.

But Jesus is eternal with the Father as the Logos, in the same way that words are the expression of a person while being other then that person yet inseparable.

Tithesmeister 04-02-2022 10:27 AM
Re: An Exhortation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias (Post 1609208)
I know exactly who he is (my second favorite Orthodox theologian, behind Chrysostom). Mr Bevere is apparently a pop preacher, not a theologian. The Damascene however is the Aquinas of Orthodoxy, and his Exact Exposition of the Orthodox Faith is the Summa Theologica of Orthodoxy. His opening statements (which I quoted) are pretty much spot on and correct. Too bad he didn't follow his own advice though.

My point is that when we go beyond what is written in trying to explain the nature of God we usually fill our mouths with foolishness. This applies to everybody, Oneness, or non Oneness.
Amen. But we just can’t seem to help ourselves.

Amanah 04-02-2022 11:05 AM
Re: An Exhortation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tithesmeister (Post 1609234)
Amen. But we just can’t seem to help ourselves.
Not to mention Votivesoul's thread is off track :(

Tithesmeister 04-02-2022 12:00 PM
Re: An Exhortation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amanah (Post 1609237)
Not to mention Votivesoul's thread is off track :(
That’s never happened before.

votivesoul 04-06-2022 07:21 AM
Re: An Exhortation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias (Post 1609154)
So what examples do we have of the apostles directly addressing God in prayer, so we can see what truly apostolic prayer looks like as far as the wording they used?
Acts 4:23-31 (ESV),

Quote:
23 When they were released, they went to their friends and reported what the chief priests and the elders had said to them. 24 And when they heard it, they lifted their voices together to God and said, “Sovereign Lord, who made the heaven and the earth and the sea and everything in them, 25 who through the mouth of our father David, your servant, said by the Holy Spirit,

“‘Why did the Gentiles rage,
and the peoples plot in vain?
26 The kings of the earth set themselves,
and the rulers were gathered together,
against the Lord and against his Anointed’—

27 for truly in this city there were gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, 28 to do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place. 29 And now, Lord, look upon their threats and grant to your servants to continue to speak your word with all boldness, 30 while you stretch out your hand to heal, and signs and wonders are performed through the name of your holy servant Jesus.” 31 And when they had prayed, the place in which they were gathered together was shaken, and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and continued to speak the word of God with boldness.

votivesoul 04-06-2022 07:22 AM
Re: An Exhortation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MawMaw (Post 1608925)
Thank you, VotiveSoul!
You're welcome, Sis.

votivesoul 04-06-2022 07:23 AM
Re: An Exhortation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias (Post 1608900)
:thumbsup
Thanks, Brother.

votivesoul 04-06-2022 07:23 AM
Re: An Exhortation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa (Post 1608927)
:highfive
Amen, Brother. God bless you and yours, in Jesus' name.

votivesoul 04-06-2022 07:23 AM
Re: An Exhortation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by good samaritan (Post 1608993)
Good post!
Thank you, GS.

votivesoul 04-06-2022 07:24 AM
Re: An Exhortation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Originalist (Post 1609024)
A great post that covers both the judicial and practical aspects of grace. The grace message is not complete unless both are presented.
I agree, Originalist.

Peace and God bless,

Aaron

votivesoul 04-06-2022 07:27 AM
Re: An Exhortation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by diakonos (Post 1609048)
I had a pastor who would do gymnastics after quoting a verse that would give the slightest impression that there could be more than 1. :lol
My brother preached one time when the pastor was away for work, and used, among many other verses, the Scripture Hebrews 9:24,

Quote:
For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
Then, afterward, he whispered to me that he was glad the pastor wasn't there that night because he was worried that "pastor" would think he was a Trinitarian for using Hebrews 9:24.

votivesoul 04-06-2022 07:33 AM
Re: An Exhortation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amanah (Post 1609231)
Would it be correct to say:

There cannot be an eternal Son of God because Sonship implies creation, such and humans and angels, and God manifest in the flesh.
Can God still be Everlasting Father before the creation (or rather, begetting) of the Son? Said another way, if there is no Son, can there be Father?

Nevertheless, the Scriptures never use the phrase Eternal Son. That is a fundamentally extra-Biblical, Trinitarian idea.

Quote:
But Jesus is eternal with the Father as the Logos, in the same way that words are the expression of a person while being other then that person yet inseparable.
The Logos was made flesh and dwelt among us, and that is Jesus of Nazareth. Before that fulness of time (see Galatians 4:4), was the Logos Jesus of Nazareth? I do not think so. The Logos was the Logos. Jesus of Nazareth is the name of the human man the Logos became when It was made flesh and dwelt among us. Prior to that Incarnation, it would seem to me, and I could be wrong here, if we must apply a name to the Logos, the Tetragrammaton (YHVH/YHWH) would be perfectly suitable, and Biblical.

votivesoul 04-06-2022 07:35 AM
Re: An Exhortation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amanah (Post 1609237)
Not to mention Votivesoul's thread is off track :(
As many as are led by the Spirit of God are the Sons of God.

It may be that the Lord intended for the thread to go this way, for our mutual benefit and edification. :)

Pressing-On 04-06-2022 10:01 AM
Re: An Exhortation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by votivesoul (Post 1609325)
Can God still be Everlasting Father before the creation (or rather, begetting) of the Son? Said another way, if there is no Son, can there be Father?

Nevertheless, the Scriptures never use the phrase Eternal Son. That is a fundamentally extra-Biblical, Trinitarian idea.



The Logos was made flesh and dwelt among us, and that is Jesus of Nazareth. Before that fulness of time (see Galatians 4:4), was the Logos Jesus of Nazareth? I do not think so. The Logos was the Logos. Jesus of Nazareth is the name of the human man the Logos became when It was made flesh and dwelt among us. Prior to that Incarnation, it would seem to me, and I could be wrong here, if we must apply a name to the Logos, the Tetragrammaton (YHVH/YHWH) would be perfectly suitable, and Biblical.
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God…And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us.”

The Logos was always Jesus Christ, God Almighty.

He kept His name a secret until the fullness of time.

Manoah asked His name. He said, “Why are you asking after my name seeing that it is secret/remarkable/wonderful?” Judges 13:18; Isaiah 9:6

Jacob asked God His name after wrestling with Him. He knew it was God because he wanted to be blessed by Him. Genesis 32:26;29

God is who He is. His name has always been Jesus, waiting to be revealed.

Let me add that He has always been and always will be the Mighty God in Christ.
And we can read a million books and quote a million author’s words. However, unless we have spent time with Him alone, we will never really know Him. He reveals Himself to us through His Word.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:31 PM.
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2026, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.