Where exactly the UPCI got tithing from?
 

I'm looking into the Assemblies of God Statements of truth [1], and it is not mentioned there. I find out, otherwise, in the bylaws [2]

Parham came from the Methodists, and John Wesley didn't believe much in tithing and didn't put it in any fundamental faith.

So, Methodists -> Assemblies of God -> ...somewhere along the way, someone put it as a fundamental truth -> UPCI.

Perhaps when they went to the Pentecostal Assemblies of the World, but I can't find the articles of faith of this organization.

Does anybody know where that began?

[1] https://ag.org/-/media/AGORG/Beliefs...tal-Truths.pdf
[2] https://ag.org/-/media/AGORG/Downloa...and-Bylaws.pdf

Re: Where exactly the UPCI got tithing from?
 

Good article on tithing

https://www.britannica.com/topic/tithe

Re: Where exactly the UPCI got tithing from?
 

Oh brother! You are such a troublemaker!

I’ll give you the answer, at least what I believe the answer to be. Give me a little time.

Meanwhile?

Research those evil trinitarians (AOG) because they are the purveyors of this false doctrine. (Sarcasm alert).

Otherwise?

It’s important to understand that the doctrine is evolving. (Kind of like TDJ’s doctrine on homosexuality). It has been changing for about two thousand years. And it is still changing.

Meanwhile?

The KJV is remarkably consistent.

Re: Where exactly the UPCI got tithing from?
 

Great post. And true.

Re: Where exactly the UPCI got tithing from?
 

I have a question, where exactly did the UPCI get tithing from? :lol

Re: Where exactly the UPCI got tithing from?
 

And me not able to eat popcorn....shame. 😅

Re: Where exactly the UPCI got tithing from?
 

No popcorn for this.

Just wondering why no one looked to answer the original question which is in the title of the thread. I would be interested to hear something different. Where did the doctrine begin? Like the whole Yahweh/Yashua name groups. The church was cool with using JESUS as His name. Then very late in history the Hebrew root groups popped up. When I saw the title of the thread I thought it was interesting to see what all three of us thought. :)

Re: Where exactly the UPCI got tithing from?
 

Brother Coksiw,

Tithing belief of the AOG is contained under Section 7 of the second link that you posted. It is VERY similar to the UPCI tithing found in the articles of faith of the UPCI. The AOG seem to have tempered their stance on tithing over the years, however the tithe is built into the structure of their organization much like the UPCI has built it into theirs. (Or, to be clear, the UPCI has built theirs like the AOG built theirs, because obviously the AOG organized first).

The UPCI is the product of the merge of two oneness organizations in 1945. But they split off from the AOG because of what was known at the time as the “New Issue” which was the revelation of the oneness of God as opposed to the trinitarian beliefs of the AOG.

Originally, the bylaws were incredibly similar if my memory serves me. I wish I could do a side by side comparison of the doctrines but I’m unable to find anything that is from the 1940’s that states the doctrine of tithing from the AOG.

If you look closely you will see references to sharing the tithe and offering with the higher ranks of the organization that is too similar to the UPCI to be coincidence.

So I’m fairly certain that the UPCI plagiarized from the AOG in much of their organizational papers.

The tithe doctrine specifically was pretty much copied and pasted from the UPCI to the other organizations that split off from them, so the trend has continued.

For instance:

TITHING

We believe tithing is God’s financial plan to provide for His work, and has been since the days of Abraham. Tithing came with faith under Abraham, Moses’ law enjoined it, and Israel practiced it when she was right with God; Jesus indorsed it (Matt. 23:23); and Paul said to lay by in store as God has prospered you. Do not rob God of His portion, viz., tithes and offerings.

Above is the UPCI doctrine on tithing.

Below is the ALJC doctrine.

We believe tithing is God’s financial plan to provide for His work, and has been since the days of Abraham. Tithing came with faith under Abraham, Moses’ law enjoined it, Israel practiced it when she was right with God, Jesus endorsed it (Matthew 23:23), and Paul said to lay by in store as God has prospered you. Do not rob God of His portion, that is tithes and offerings (Read Malachi 3).

There is obviously some copying and pasting going on relative to the doctrine of tithing. The proof is in the word financial. Tithing in the Bible was never financial it was food. So we have an example of the blind being blindly followed in this doctrine. Interesting how the splits occurred allegedly because of false doctrine but this false doctrine was never examined and corrected in the process.

I hope this helps.

Re: Where exactly the UPCI got tithing from?
 

There should be a thread about, “where did the UPCI, WPF, ALJC, AMF…..” get a lot of their standards, and bylaws from.

For example,

Where did the ________ get….
-Tithing
-Membership dues
-Conferences that charge admission
-Rapture doctrine
-Ministry Retirement Accounts
-Theatre Plays that Charge Admission
-Membership Insurance Plans
-First Lady

Several just want to focus on tithing because it has to deal with individual pockets. However, there is a list of things that organizations, religious no less, require to either benefit the local leadership, or the organization as a whole. I mean there is one organization that I know that you cannot join unless you pay a membership due each month. You also HAVE to sign a statement of faith that you believe in the 2nd coming of Christ.

I mean it could all change, look how it changed from the 80’s, 90’s and even the early 00’s many preachers were against TV’s, now almost all of us have one, yet we call it a phone. Many of us were against Televangelist’s, now many preachers, conferences, have become what they used to stand against.

Give it a couple years, maybe tithing will change. And we’ll all go back to bringing food to the storehouse. That may be needed more than Monopoly money.

Re: Where exactly the UPCI got tithing from?
 

Good point :thumbsup

Re: Where exactly the UPCI got tithing from?
 

So how did the tithing doctrine enter into the Pentecostal movement?

Re: Where exactly the UPCI got tithing from?
 

It’s certainly a good question. I wish I could give a well documented answer but unfortunately the early Pentecostal churches which were of many different doctrines were not really big on documentation. I do have an opinion though.

Coksiw mentioned that the Methodist (Wesley) didn’t really emphasize the tithe doctrine. I believe it is because that when Methodism was established the tithe was still rendered in produce. In the eighteenth century there is no church (to my knowledge) that was receiving tithe in money. It wasn’t until the Tithe Commutation Act:

The Tithe Act 1836, sometimes called the Tithe Commutation Act 1836, is an Act of the Parliament of the United Kingdom. It is one of the Tithe Acts 1836 to 1891. It replaced the ancient system of payment of tithes in kind with monetary payments. Wikipedia

The Tithe Commutation Act was enacted in a time when there was an upheaval concerning the tithe doctrine, which was really a law. This upheaval included the Tithe War:

The Tithe War (Irish: Cogadh na nDeachúna) was a campaign of mainly nonviolent civil disobedience, punctuated by sporadic violent episodes, in Ireland between 1830 and 1836 in reaction to the enforcement of tithes on the Roman Catholic majority for the upkeep of the established state church, the Church of Ireland.

So, as I’ve said previously, the tithe doctrine has been changing for two thousand years and the changes have not always been welcomed by the tithers, but are usually brought about by the beneficiaries of the tithe.

Under the status quo, before the Tithe Act, tithe was only rendered by those who were involved in agriculture. Of course if you had only a cow or two, you wouldn’t have a tenth cow, so no tithe would be rendered. However, if you picked ten tomatoes, one tomato would be the tithe.

The Tithe Act changed all that. It actually exacted a tithe based on the record of agricultural production from the seven previous years which were averaged to compute the tithe owed. Annnd it was based on the value of the crop. If your ten acre farm had a history of producing five hundred bushels of wheat and the current market price is ten dollars per bushel, the tithe would be ten percent of the monetary value of the five thousand dollars (or British pounds etc.) of your crop. If you didn’t produce agriculture, you would not have anything eligible to tithe from.

So when the Pandora’s box of a tithe that was actually money was opened, a lot of change took place. Now that tithe is money, everyone is (supposedly) required to tithe. Even widows?! Pure heresy!

So it is my opinion, that after some seventy or eighty years of this change in tithing doctrine had time to establish itself, along comes the modern Pentecostal movement. It seems that the timing has so much to do with the strong doctrine of tithing error touted by the UPCI as well as other Pentecostal and apostolic churches. If Azusa Street had taken place in the early nineteenth century instead of a hundred years later, I think it would be a whole different situation.

Just my opinion. I realize some may not like it and you’re welcome to share yours, ( that is if you enjoy being wrong).

Lol.

Re: Where exactly the UPCI got tithing from?
 

I wouldn't think it is probable that the AOG dropped tithing from their statements of truth, and moved it to the bylaws to soften their position. I'd think it is more probable that the money tithing doctrine moved from bylaws to the statement of truth to ensure the cash flow. Since the later didn't happen in the AOG, I think someone with power in the UPCI itself included it as a core doctrine intentionally after splitting from the PAW, or they just agreed to it when they joined the PAW earlier on (assuming the PAW already had it). So, I think the PAW already had it. Where the PAW got it from? No idea.

So, basically, J. J. Frazier did it?

Re: Where exactly the UPCI got tithing from?
 

Tithing can be found in the Foursquare Church’s statement of faith, compiled in 1923. Doubtful that this has had any influence on Oneness organizations though.

Re: Where exactly the UPCI got tithing from?
 

Nicodemus, I know some get in "hero-self-sacrifice-loable" mode and ask "why such a deal with the pockets?" And, who can argue with someone proud of their sacrifices?

But this is the reality, when someone finds out that some minor Holiness things like ladies wearing tights for the snow is not a big deal as someone puts it because is not a "split garment", then that person just say "oh well, that was dumb, not a big deal".

However, when someone realizes that the modern tithing doctrine is a falsehood, that person feels abused, taken advantaged of, especially if you "sacrificed" your household and piled debt, or didn't move to a safer neighborhood, or didn't help parents as much as desired, etc...

Some falsehods you can recover from without much problem and you just overlook them, ... others, in the other hand, do creates strong feelings. Those "next level" falsehoods are usually the ones that give the perpetrator some money, power (controlling), or sex advantage over the deceived one.

I believe the Pentecostal movement has a strong tradition on people's mind that they struggle to get rid of. But I believe the time will come, when preachers and teachers and pastors preaching that doctrine will look bad to the congregations, and lose reputation, and look as deceitful to the people more and more, and it will create a counter reaction and a split. Remember, that lie is so easy to debunk, and the truth is so accessible nowadays. I just hope the split do not end up becoming like those that go all the way even to drop Holiness as some have done. The best case scenario is that the UPCI itself removes the tithing article so other churches that disagree with that obviously false doctrine can be part of the fellowship, so there is no an actual split.

Churches can perfectly function without tithing. There are plenty of examples in other organizations.

Re: Where exactly the UPCI got tithing from?
 

Good info, thank you for sharing it.

Re: Where exactly the UPCI got tithing from?
 

Why does the UPCI or other organizations need to stop doing what they’ve been doing? It seems like you’re trying to change an organization, how about trying to influence an individual.

The UPCI, WPF, AMF, etc… are man made organizations, they’re structured like the pyramid. What else do you expect from a man made organization? Do we expect something greater? Why, because they believe in Acts 2:38, One God so on and so forth.

We can complain about the bylaws of an organization, however do not become a part of it. You’re not saved because of a membership, you’re saved by his Spirit.

I used those examples as a way to say, man changes, man says one thing today and something different tomorrow. Maybe one day the UPCI changes its stance on giving. You may not believe in tithing today, but maybe someday you will. Time will tell….

Re: Where exactly the UPCI got tithing from?
 

I consider the UPCI, WPF, etc... people my brethren also. I have no problem with organized efforts, and fellowship. There is no problem with reforms if it makes us align better with the Biblical blueprint, but also, nothing wrong with determining what our true core beliefs are that unites us, and the ones that we allow variances about.

Re: Where exactly the UPCI got tithing from?
 

That’s fine.

Then the UPCI, WPF are going to structure that organization to support and fund their beliefs that best suits their organization. And a main belief is tithing or giving. They’re not going to want apples and grapes to pay for their airplane travels, or send rams skins to help build a church in the foreign missions.

Re: Where exactly the UPCI got tithing from?
 

I see your sarcasm but I have never said I wanted tithing to be produce. I don’t believe that’s even applicable to outside Israel, or even inside Israel after thr cross and the ending of the Levitical priesthood.

I have no problem whatsoever to fund initiatives and teachers with money. My only problem is the falsehood behind the illegitimate 10% tax, and the lack of compassion resulting from that falsehood on the low income people (elders and disabled people living off social security, low income families, broken families, etc…) that are banned from participating, and made feel guilty, and are robbed from their necessities.

I know many Pastors are indeed compassionate and overlook failures to pay tithes and don’t preach hard on it. But many are not. I prefer the falsehood is done with and giving goes back to what the NT intended. I believe Oneness Pentecostalism needs to break from that abusive tradition. The organizations change or good Holiness non-full-preterist alternatives show up so saints can escape from that.

Re: Where exactly the UPCI got tithing from?
 

How did tithing come into the UPC?

Re: Where exactly the UPCI got tithing from?
 

You mean NT tithing of all income? My best guess is from when joining with the PAW.

At the beginning of the Asuza revival Seumour was very critical of preachers earning salaries, even from tithing (or accusing them of preaching for money). But towards the end, he was a lot "friendlier" to the concept, and even testified of some tongues and interpretations mandating it (year 1908):

So, the tithing was kind of a strong concept from the beginning of the American Pentecostal movement.

As contrast, the Apostolic movements (oneness, Acts 2:38) oustide of the USA, didn't have tithing as a core doctrine, but slowly, over the years, the UPCI traveling around the world convinced many of those ministers to join the UPCI and depart from their original Apostolic Movement.

Here is an example from "To the end of the Earth" book from Bernard:

That book is an interesting read, BTW.

Re: Where exactly the UPCI got tithing from?
 

Basically, what I have seen is that the modern tithing doctrine is mainly an American preachers thing, which lures preachers because it ensures a cash flow and removes some uncertanties about it. Then, it has been exported strongly to other nations, which really, "The American preachers are here, who doesn't want join them? they got the cash to do projects!" In other countries, joining the Americans means larger chance of cash flow, and greater fellowship. So, smaller scale Apostolic Movements have been absorbed by larger organizations, and that translates to compliance with their Articles of Faith.

Re: Where exactly the UPCI got tithing from?
 

So no one actually knows where exactly the UPCI got tithing from?
We are just led to believe they just adopted tithing from other Pentecostals up the line from them in their lineage. In other words, Elder so and so did it so they just accepted it. The teaching being a good way to get paid, put food on the table and keep the lights and heat on in the church building. It looks like we narrow this subject down to Apostolics outside the USA didn’t do tithing. Therefore since Andrew Urshan came from Persia when did he convert to tithing? Anyone have information on this?

Re: Where exactly the UPCI got tithing from?
 

It’s in the 1952 AOF. :nod

Re: Where exactly the UPCI got tithing from?
 

For what I can understand from secondary sources, Andrew Urshan wasn't even Jesus' name Onesses Pentecostal but after he came to USA. So his ministry really evolved in the USA, so at some point he had to embrace the AoF that included tithing.

Re: Where exactly the UPCI got tithing from?
 

I attended a church where the pastor told the women receiving benefits that they had to tithe on their food stamps- converted to cash.

Re: Where exactly the UPCI got tithing from?
 

Also, if something was on sale, the percent you saved was considered “increase.”

Re: Where exactly the UPCI got tithing from?
 

So, modern PAW articles of faith has tithing and it virtually worded as the UPCI. However, the modern PAW split from the UPCI.
If only we had more documents about the original PAW.

https://pawinc.org/download/code-of-bylaws/

Re: Where exactly the UPCI got tithing from?
 

Now, the question would be, where did they get it from?

Re: Where exactly the UPCI got tithing from?
 

I do believe we all have experienced or have heard of situations where individuals abused teachings on “giving.” Whether tithing, or freewill offerings. The love of money is the root of all evil.

Missionaries showing photos of supposed “ revivals.” Or pictures of half naked street children gobbling down morsels of food. They aren’t asking for a tithe, but asking for as much as your guilty conscience will force you to give. I’m certainly not saying all missionaries employ these tactics. Just like not all ministers abuse their congregations on giving to the ministry.

Re: Where exactly the UPCI got tithing from?
 

Been away awhile but interesting to see this familiar subject discussed.

I never required tithing from our parishioners, but it was an independent Oneness church, not UPCI. We never lacked for funds.
The obligatory tithe can be a trap. There are far too many nuances to the preaching of that doctrine (YES, it is a "doctrine") to list them on AFF.

As a former short-term missionary and one that continues to financially support missions, it does take money. That, in my opinion, is a separate discussion, not to be conflated with a tithing thread.

The western business church paradigm requires a stream of funding to survive, which forces a tithe. Without mandatory funding (tithing) Ministries will collapse under the financial weight of their obligations. This is not an endorsement of tithing, by the way.
Tithing is not salvational, but you would never know it by actions (and bylaws) of some organizations.

Just a segway, but many times tithing is dedicated to church (or denominational/organizational) branding, which is a strange way to line item a tithe.

Re: Where exactly the UPCI got tithing from?
 

Thanks for posting.

What I have seen work is simply expressing to the congregation the needs, including even salary to the pastor (yes, many people want a salaried pastor), and then you ask them how much they commit to give monthly, and do the math, and a budget with that number. Very similar to what the UPCI does with the faith promises but without the “faith” push, but simply a “love” push.

There are many churches in the USA with buildings and full time pastors that run without the modern tithing doctrine. It is possible.

Re: Where exactly the UPCI got tithing from?
 

I often show pictures of our feeding programs...the people know we take pictures so the people that make it possible will know where their money goes... We have many that today serve the Lord that we once fed when they were small ...in fact I have two boys helping me right now who lived in the "favela" for years and now live with us...I think if missionaries have feeding programs they should show where the money for that goes with pictures...just like if I am building a church with funds I reaised or am raising I show pictures....I try to keep good records of course I am not perfect but do my very best so people have no doubt where their money goes.

Right now we are working on what we call the farm project (around 88 acres) of land and we plant lots of cassava ( a potato like root) used especially in north Brazil for almost every meal...we also have fish ponds and just finsihed another one and we plan to stock it soon. And for the interest of those that may have questions this land is in the name of the national church here...we work first for God and then for them.

I know this is about tithing but since feeding children were mentioned and that has been my burden for the last 55 years ...just thought I might mention our position.

Re: Where exactly the UPCI got tithing from?
 

Absolutely!

Re: Where exactly the UPCI got tithing from?
 

When we support foreign missions, we love the pictures they send us. In general Sis, except God himself usually people don’t understand what foreign missions go through unless they become apart of it themselves.

Re: Where exactly the UPCI got tithing from?
 

It is true that requires money if you want buildings, but it was also the case for Synagogues in Israel in the time of Jesus. Nothing wrong with building and their expenses, as long as it is wisely managed to avoid excesses. Nothing wrong with financially supporting teachers, pastors, and missionaries either, but that's a long discussion for those deeply oppose to it.

So, the statement "The western business church paradigm requires a stream of funding to survive, which forces a tithe." is not factual. There are plenty of examples of churches in USA and other countries flourishing financially without the 10% tax on the saints.

Re: Where exactly the UPCI got tithing from?
 

I somewhat agree with you about the necessity of tithing for the brick-and-mortar church to survive. For the home missionary pastor that is pressured to build a building that will validate the ministry...the funding must come from somewhere. In those churches I helped start, tithing was an absolute. And it mattered whether it was on your "capital gains", your gross or your net after taxes.
It is a given that running a church "is a business". I have been in district and local church business meetings (no pun meant) when that particular comment is made. How do you enforce the stream of funding? If I said 100% of the time, then I apologize, but in my observation, MOST of the time, funding support is through a tithe.
It would be interesting to see how many brick and mortar churches, especially home mission churches would start were the doctrine of tithing in Oneness churches ceased.
Segway: I don't see a tithe connection at all between Old Testament Jewish synagogues and North American churches being built, given the fact that the OT tithing was primarily agricultural (for the Levites) and for the upkeep of the 1st and 2nd Temples.

Re: Where exactly the UPCI got tithing from?
 

Synagogues were supported with voluntary giving, not tithing. Financing a synagogue was an act of love.

”for he loves our nation, and he built our synagogue for us.”“
....Luke‬ ..7‬:..5‬ ..WEBUS‬‬

The Iglesia Gentil de Cristo in Arizona, for example, have buildings, and they not only believe in free will giving, but they condemn the modern teaching of tithing from the pulpit. They have many churches in Mexico, and several here in Arizona, and expanding. They are Holiness, Oneness, and Acts 2:38 believers.

The website tithing.com has also large list of churches in the USA that do not preach tithing and they have buildings and even salaried pastors, and they also expand and create other churches. The facts are out there.

Re: Where exactly the UPCI got tithing from?
 

An interesting fact: The Church of Christ does not teach that tithing is a Christian principle. I’m sure a lot of people on here would think that they are not part of the “true church”. Many apostolics believe that we are the only church that Jesus will return for. We are the “real” church with the “true” truth. We are the church that Jesus referred to when he said the gates of hell will not prevail against it.

So, since we are the “real” church. Since we are the powerful church. Since we are the church that can storm the very gates of hell.

Why do we feel compelled to lie about tithing? Doesn’t that seem a bit “unpowerful”?

Doesn’t it seem weak?

Doesn’t it seem unChrist-like?

Jesus is the way, the TRUTH and the life. There are many scriptures that say things like He was full of grace and truth. So it seems awfully strange and strangely awful that the church that is so powerful that the very gates of hell cannot withstand its incredible power, cannot survive without the many and diverse lies required to propagate the typical modern doctrine of tithing on the unsuspecting sheep that the pastors are supposed to be protecting from . . .

False doctrine.

Because. . .
ALL LIARS

Rev.21

[8] But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Now don’t go telling that I said all preachers that preach that tithing is necessary or needful or even for New Testament Christians (or even Jews) are going to hell. I didn’t say that. I merely posted a scripture. You are welcome to figure it out for yourselves.

The modern tithe doctrine is not a lie. It is instead, a pack of lies. From what it is to whom it’s given, the lies vary widely from one denomination to another and from church to church within denominations. Some preachers say it all goes to them. Others will “graciously” share with the church. But the fear prevails that the “church” absolutely cannot survive without the tithe. Which of course is another lie.

Think about it: “We cannot survive without the tithe.”
The premise is that we must lie to collect the tithe, so we (who are presumably the true church) can exist.

On the other hand, we have the word of God telling us that we will burn in hell if we lie (presumably even about tithing). On the other (other) hand we have an entire denomination that seems to be financially solvent (nice buildings and congregations of people) that are doing fine while telling the truth about tithing.

Meanwhile we are twisting scripture, skipping verses, quoting passages completely out of context and ignoring others, which is very problematic in itself.
What we do to include tithing reminds me of a scripture:

2Cor.4

[1] Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not;
[2] But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.

We handle the word of God deceitfully, which Paul said that we who have this “ministry” would not do, but would manifest the truth. When it comes to tithes we as a movement do not manifest truth. We can’t afford to. We have to lie to the sheep, and in the process of lying to the sheep we preclude ourselves (according to scripture) from being the true church.

It is quite a dilemma.