Dispensationalism undermines the gospel
 

I would love to have a better understanding of how Dispensationalism contradicts scripture and undermines the gospel.

I have a few thoughts on the subject.

Pentecost broke down the wall of partition between Jew and Gentile making the gospel for all people.

Dispensationalism creates a distinction in the plan of salvation for Jew and Gentile therefore is contrary to the gospel.

Rapture theory replaces the blessed hope of the resurrection, which is contrary to the gospel.

The new covenant is made with the houses of Israel and Judah, which dispensationalism doesn't teach.

Re: Dispensationalism undermines the gospel
 

How the rapture replaces the hope of resurrection? Did I miss something?
As far as I know that’s not the case.

Re: Dispensationalism undermines the gospel
 

I think rapture theory teaches that there is a rapture before the first resurrection.

1 Corinthians 15:50-54 and 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 are the first Resurrection mentioned in Revelation 20:4-6, which states:

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither his mark upon their foreheads or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

The Gospel includes the redemption of our bodies:

Paul writes in Romans 8:23, "And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies."

This verse highlights that our salvation is not just spiritual, but also physical. Our bodies, which are subject to decay and death, will be redeemed and transformed into glorified bodies, fit for eternal life with God.

Re: Dispensationalism undermines the gospel
 

Do you consider this verse to be dealing with the rapture?

I know dispensationalism as it is currently has morphed into different forms. Yet, this verse speaking of the dead in Christ rising and meeting the alive saints in the air and clouds. Is used by Classical Dispensationalists for the Rapture. It combines a resurrection of dead saints with alive saints. There are some who teach that even though this is the rapture. Jesus doesn't come to the earth. He is rapturing the dead saints from their graves with the live saints. But, at a later date will return with all of the saints He previously had raptured at a later time.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-18

"For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first."

Re: Dispensationalism undermines the gospel
 

Hmm, are you sure that’s what the rapture teaching is?

As far as I know rapture is the first resurrection. The timeline is:

1. Resurrection, going to heaven in glorified bodies to celebrate the wedding of the lamb and the bride
2. 7 years later, come back to earth, in the battle of Armagedon
3. Reign with Christ for 1000 years


I didn’t know there was another rapture teaching negating that the resurrection happens at the rapture.

Re: Dispensationalism undermines the gospel
 

Yup, that’s how the rapture teaching interprets that verse.

The rapture doctrine is basically pre-trib or mid-trib.

Re: Dispensationalism undermines the gospel
 

Yep

Re: Dispensationalism undermines the gospel
 

Sister,
I think the greatest negative impact of the dispensationalism doctrine has been in how its followers interpret the past events in the Scriptures, and therefore, how they end up applying them to their lives.

I am not sure how much their view of eschatology have a real negative impact on their day to day basis. As long as they believe in the return of Christ and the resurrection, there is hope.

Re: Dispensationalism undermines the gospel
 

Do you believe there are people on earth during the tribulation who will be saved?

Re: Dispensationalism undermines the gospel
 

:thumbsup

Re: Dispensationalism undermines the gospel
 

Me personally? I got no strong position about the end times details but what is making the most sense to me is something like what Israel experienced in Egypt: signs and wonders over the earth while His people were miraculously protected until the day of deliverance.

It sounds like post-trib but it is not because post-trib still expects 7 years of trib, which I am not sure it is the case either. I do believe things will get worse before the end.

So, to answer your questions, yes, I think people will still be joining the church by obedience to Acts 2:38 through the last period of trial upon the earth until the glorious appearing of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Re: Dispensationalism undermines the gospel
 

:thumbsup

I guess the question then would be what happens to people who obey acts 2:38 and die during the tribulation?

Re: Dispensationalism undermines the gospel
 

Do you believe that things MUST get worse?

Re: Dispensationalism undermines the gospel
 

Good question.

Re: Dispensationalism undermines the gospel
 

2 Thessalonians 2:7 there are those who teach that the restrainer is the Holy Ghost. That at the time of the rapture He will be taken out of the world.

Re: Dispensationalism undermines the gospel
 

I remember hearing that.

I guess I would like to know what cutting edge Dispensationalism teaches.

Re: Dispensationalism undermines the gospel
 

Because of that teaching you have a quandary concerning their soteriology

Re: Dispensationalism undermines the gospel
 

Which tribulation? we all are going to be here for the tribulation, including the church, the same way Israel was in Egypt during the plagues.

Re: Dispensationalism undermines the gospel
 

Scofield Bible's footnotes https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/eng/srn.html

Re: Dispensationalism undermines the gospel
 

I believe so.

Re: Dispensationalism undermines the gospel
 

Therefore the "Church" will be protected like Israel was in Goshen?

Re: Dispensationalism undermines the gospel
 

Ok. This tribulation will just be against the Church? Or, will this tribulation be against the Church and with National Israel? Or just against the world?

Re: Dispensationalism undermines the gospel
 

Yes, like in Goshen.

Re: Dispensationalism undermines the gospel
 

Therefore modern day National Israel, all Jews, and everyone else who isn't a Christian will suffer?

Re: Dispensationalism undermines the gospel
 

There will be an increase persecution against the church, probably close to global. There will also be different kinds of tribulation sent by God upon many parts of the world as God choose to. That one is the one I say it won't touch the church. Regarding national Israel, I think it has a place in the end, but they are not the church of God

Re: Dispensationalism undermines the gospel
 

Yup, but I am not saying in what way. That's God's decision. I believe the nation of Israel today has a place in the end times, and will go through their own struggles and tribs as God plans. No one living there will be saved without Acts 2:38.

Re: Dispensationalism undermines the gospel
 

This is the interesting part. Israel in Classical Dispensationalism is the main focus. The Church is raptured out, and Israel remains behind. In Modern post 1948 Dispensationalism Israel is getting a second chance to redeem herself with God. Jesus returns with the raptured saints, and all Jews living on the planet see the scars in Jesus' hands and repent nationally. They both rule in the Millennial Kingdom over all of those who made it through the tribulation. Satan is loosed and gathers all the nations against Israel for one final battle.

Re: Dispensationalism undermines the gospel
 

Why does the nation of Israel have a place in the end times? Some believe that the church came to be, because Israel rejected Christ. Therefore Israel is given her second chance to accept Jesus. Reason being they will all get to see that He is their Messiah.

Re: Dispensationalism undermines the gospel
 

I'm not speaking with "doctrinal" certainty like I would speak of the Oneness of God. I have my own ideas how things could play out. I think modern Israel will play a role in escalating conflict and hatres against God and all his people in this world.

Re: Dispensationalism undermines the gospel
 

Like Jerusalem will be a cup of trembling unto all the people round about?
Israel will be the one to escalate the Great Tribulation? Do you see Jerusalem/Israel/Judaism as Mystery Babylon?

Re: Dispensationalism undermines the gospel
 

Progressive Dispensationalism, as articulated by Craig A. Blaising and Darrell L. Bock, is a refinement of traditional Dispensationalism. Here's a summary:

*Key features:*

1. *Redemptive history*: Emphasizes the unity and progress of redemptive history, rather than just dispensational distinctives.
2. *Complementary hermeneutics*: Combines literal and figurative interpretation, recognizing that Scripture uses both.
3. *Israel and the Church*: Sees Israel and the Church as interconnected, with the Church participating in Israel's promises and blessings.
4. *Already-not-yet eschatology*: Emphasizes that the eschatological kingdom has already begun, but its full realization is still future.
5. *One people of God*: Envisions a single people of God, comprising both Israel and the Church, united in Christ.
6. *Christological unity*: Highlights Christ as the central figure, uniting all of redemptive history and dispensations.
7. *Flexible dispensations*: Views dispensations as flexible, overlapping, and interconnected, rather than rigid and distinct.
8. *Emphasis on continuity*: Stresses continuity between the Testaments, and the ongoing relevance of the Old Testament.

*Differences from traditional Dispensationalism:*

1. *Less emphasis on dispensational boundaries*: Sees dispensations as fluid and interconnected.
2. *More emphasis on biblical theology*: Focuses on the overarching narrative and themes of Scripture.
3. *Reevaluation of Israel-Church relations*: Sees the Church as participating in Israel's promises, rather than replacing Israel.

By refining traditional Dispensationalism, Progressive Dispensationalism seeks to provide a more nuanced and biblically comprehensive understanding of God's redemptive plan.

~META

Re: Dispensationalism undermines the gospel
 

This is a must listen!!!

Progressive Dispensationalism:

https://youtu.be/LjR-4NrchMA?si=v0J9YBVi2Wrgk2_E

*****

Re: Dispensationalism undermines the gospel
 

Yeah

Re: Dispensationalism undermines the gospel
 

So progressive Dispensationalism sees all the promises of all the covenants being fulfilled in Christ and inherited by the Church with the Kingdom of Christ reigning on a renewed earth. Wow!

Re: Dispensationalism undermines the gospel
 

Do they believe that people have always been saved by grace thru faith or they believe like all dispensationalist about it?

Re: Dispensationalism undermines the gospel
 

Yes, Progressive Dispensationalists believe that people have always been saved by grace through faith, throughout all of redemptive history. They emphasize that:

1. _Salvation is by grace through faith_: This is the consistent message of Scripture, from Genesis to Revelation.
2. _No change in the way of salvation_: God's method of saving people has always been by grace through faith, not by works or human effort.
3. _Continuity in God's plan_: Progressive Dispensationalists see a continuous thread of God's redemptive plan, with no radical discontinuities or changes in the way of salvation.

They argue that:

- In the Old Testament, people were saved by grace through faith, looking forward to the coming Messiah (Hebrews 11).
- In the New Testament, people are saved by grace through faith, looking back to the finished work of Christ (Ephesians 2:8-9).

By emphasizing the continuity of salvation by grace through faith, Progressive Dispensationalists reject any notion of a "different way of salvation" in the Old Testament, such as salvation by works or law-keeping. Instead, they see a unified message of salvation by grace through faith, spanning all of redemptive history.

Meta

Re: Dispensationalism undermines the gospel
 

Here is the book

https://www.amazon.com/Progressive-D...s%2C318&sr=8-1

Re: Dispensationalism undermines the gospel
 

Progressive Dispensationalists believe in a future Rapture and Resurrection, but with some nuances:

1. *Pre-tribulation Rapture*: They still hold to a pre-tribulation Rapture, believing that the Church will be raptured before the Tribulation.
2. *Resurrection at the Rapture*: They affirm that the Rapture will involve a resurrection of deceased believers, who will receive glorified bodies.
3. *Living believers transformed*: At the Rapture, living believers will be instantly transformed into glorified bodies, without experiencing death.
4. *One Resurrection*: Progressive Dispensationalists see only one Resurrection, which occurs at the Rapture, rather than separate resurrections for different groups (e.g., Tribulation Saints).
5. *No separate Rapture for Tribulation Saints*: They believe that Tribulation Saints will be martyred and receive their glorified bodies at the end of the Tribulation, as part of the same Resurrection event.
6. *Emphasis on unity*: Progressive Dispensationalists stress the unity of all believers, both Old and New Testament, in the Resurrection and glorification.

By refining the traditional Dispensationalist view, Progressive Dispensationalists aim to provide a more cohesive and biblically grounded understanding of the Rapture and Resurrection.

Re: Dispensationalism undermines the gospel
 

What do they call “dispensation” then, and what’s the meaning of it theologically?

Re: Dispensationalism undermines the gospel
 

It's a Christ centered theology where covenantal promises to Noah, Abraham, Mosaic, Davidic, are fulfilled in National Israel inheriting the land and then receiving the New Covenant, and through Christ the gentile nations also inherit all the promises to National Israel to include the recreated earth in the Kingdom of Messiah.

********

They miss the part about the church becoming the Israel of God.