There Has Been A Change
 

Here I sit in my motel room in Alexandria, La trying to decide whether I want to go back to the District Campmeeting today and tonight or not. I probably will go since it has been more than 20 years since I've been here.

I was raised here. I attended campmeeting in the old tabernacle. No, not the tabernacle before the present one. I'm talking about the "old" tabernacle that later became the dining hall. It was just a small building that set up on the hill in the 1940s. Here, I was the first Youth Camper in 1954. These here are my "roots" of which Anthony preached a really great message last night.

But, something is different. I can't put my finger on it exactly. The form in the same. The people look the same. But there is something different in the spirit. A spiritual change has slowly crept in over the years that even I would have not recognized had I been here each of the past 25 years. But, since I've not been here, I come back to weep, recognizing a change in the spirit.

Someone hailed as a "prophet" spoke words that were strange, from a spirit that I was quite familiar with. I am so surprised and shocked that Apostolic people are sooooo gullible. I wanted to puke. Though I recognized the spirit immediately, when he began to speak concerning "an uncommon seed for an uncommon harvest" and other words in the same vein, there could be no doubt about it. Then he "prophesied" to different ones. I said to that spirit, "Ah yes ol' boy, I recognize who you are."

Anthony preached a great message, as usual. However, I left the crowded tabernacle with a cast down spirit, amazed, discouraged, upset and bewildered.

While walking slowly back to my pickup truck, I heard someone call my name. I was happy to seen an old friend. Then another called my name. Though happy to see each of them, I could not help but see the ruin of time upon their lovely faces. I hugged the brothers and sisters with joy and gladness as my heart rejoiced to see them again.

Though joy filled my heart from the encounter with these precious saints, I am so bewildered. My heart hangs heavy this morning as I write these few words.

I heard a voice in the early hours of this morning as I thought upon these things, "Watchman, what of the night..." I answered in an audible voice, "The night cometh and also the morning."

Brother, we have no guardrails up.
False doctrine is flooding into our movement at a rapid pace because we are told to let it go in the name of unity.

Was this during the offering?

Wow... what a sobering post.

I sat and stared at my post for a few minutes and I guess I have nothing to say. A little speechless I suppose.

I appreciate your discernment , insight & concern and I pray with you for a reviving of a way gone by.

I tire of the overuse of the term revival but in this case I think the term can be rightfully used.

Your post made me pull up a song on my computer and listen to it a few times. It is written & performed by a close friend whose church we used to intend.

Watchman

In this darkened hour
When there seems to be no light
God's got faithful watchman on the wall tonight
Watchman, What of the night?
Watchman, What of the night?

Standing in the brink of the darkness on the the wall
Sometimes I see my watchman big and tall
In the night time he sees my enemy
He'll blow the trump so I can flee
Watchman, What of the night?
Watchman, What of the night?

Do you see my enemy
Is it time for me to flee
Oh Watchman, What of the night?
Watchman, What of the night?

Watchman standing on the wall
He won't let me, just won't let me fall
My faithful watchman
Standing on the wall
Watchman, What of the night?
Watchman, What of the night?

Do you see my enemy?
Is it coming close to me?
Watchman, What of the night?
Watchman, What of the night?

Does anyone know who led the offering portion of the service last evening at the Louisiana camp?

What was the prophecy?
We don't need a different seed we need to continue producing the fruit of the Spirit with it's seed contained in it. Love is the fruit if Jesus is the root!

Bro with a charge this condemning you had better back up your words! Tell us about it, not just what you felt/know in the Spirit. While I DON'T know you, I do know some great men and women there, so I need more than your opinion. Every Tom, Dick, and Harry who agrees with whatever stance you have will come along and say, woe, woe to this movement/org.

There are some that would walk away from meetings not liking something about it and find many to agree with them, then we would find out that they let wristwatches on the platform!!!!!

So, you seem to be talking about deeper spiritual problems, before I agree or disagree, 'splain yourself....I'll wait

Strange.

You are a funny man..........:killinme

I don't want to comment too much because I did not watch nor hear what he is referring to but I am probably further from my heritage than I even realized when I listened to TFT and he said many things that disturbed my spirit. He said a lot of good things but he was advocating preachers being "wild" and doing "crazy things". He talked about not worrying about when prophecy misses the mark just to go for it and do it. I was very surprised and troubled by what I heard.

Then I heard similar disturbing things from Wayne Huntley so I truly no longer even identify with this group it appears.

The emphasis on the supernatural / emotinal aspects of Christianity has always been unbalanced in OTP circles in my view.

What did WH say that was disturbing?

Doesn't it call the Prophet into question when his prophecies are not correct? I don't see a lot of examples of the preachers in the book of Acts being "wild" and doing "crazy things".

i have enjoyed all the services i have heard so far! i am headed down to the camp grounds now.

btw...Bro. Strange..What was the "spirit" you recognized?

Hey..Cotton... Give me a call!!

Brother Strange, you need to talk in more specifics with less generalities.
For us to be able to agree or disagree we need more info.

the role of a "watchman" involves a need to make a "clear sound" so that the hearer will not be confused or misapply the warning.

I am thankful that there still may be a demonstration that when a prophesy is given, there are two others who hear the utterance that can judge the witness [words] from within their own spirit.

So far in this discussion, I have not heard any one bring forth a "discerning of spirits" or a "word of wisdom" or some other spiritual gift for the edification of the body.

this could be forthcoming, but as of this point in the thread, I am left with the far more familiar atmosphere of "let him that have ears to hear" fill in the blanks and the general masses can just run around and speculate among their curious carnal minds.

IMO (thanks tbpew), I think Brother Strange just recognized a spiritual shift among the people he used to fellowship closely with. Apparently he doesn't like the direction they have gone and things they are accepting.

He is an old, ancient spirit...been around a long, long time. Old Baalam had some of it. The Cathedral of Wisdom and Mike Murdock is a great proponent of this old spirit. Our "Apostolic Prophet" has been listening to too many of his tapes...even using some of his exact verbage used by him.

But, it is not just that alone...only a small portion of the whole feeling of dispair that I have this morning. I don't even know if I will make it to the campgrounds this morning at all. I am still in my motel room.

If what I have seen and felt here is an indication...the whole Apostolic movement as we know it, has made a sharp turn toward error and is becoming embued with a strange spirit that I would have never thought to be possible.

It has been 25 years since...It may be another 25 years before I make this journey here again.

I learned last night, they don't even have Youth Camp here anymore. In my day, in the 1950s that was the highlight of the whole year to which we all looked forward to with such excitement. The music is strange, the spirit is strange, the words from the pulpit are becoming strange. There is still the FORM, but....????

Brother Strange doesn't have to explain himself and we don't have to agree or disagree.Just pray for him as he is grieved.

I really wan't looking for agreement...or disagreement. I said in the beginning that I could not put my finger on it exactly. There are just some things in the spirit that cannot be verbalized. No agreement or disagreement need to be expressed to understand.

Interesting.

Are you speaking of "prosperity teaching" alone, or a broader de-emphasis of the Word of God in exchange for worldly wisdom and ethics?

That's how I read it too.

It does seem that there seems to be a change in what the crowd responds to. Seems many prefer the sensationalism over anything. It grieves me.

I have been in services where the crowd stands and claps throughout the entire sermon. We have become so programmed to respond in a way that inflates a preacher's ego that we forget to actually listen and respond to the Word.

This trend is dangerous. I honestly believe someone could proclaim beelzebub as god and most would just continue clapping. We need more hearers of the Word.

I can read that BroStrange experienced something that has larger "atmospherics" then he could immediately articulate.

Though, he has now used two definite references to recognizing a (familar?) spirit. He also acknowedged that this 'ancient' operator [the spirit] was involved with Balaam.

In my reading of his [Balaam's] role, I see him as being a vehicle to bring a curse upon the assembly. His motive was as a hierling and ultimately his counsels were to invite the daughters of men to fellowship the "sons of God".

So while the observer may not be able to put his finger on the overall atmosphere brewing among his brethren, what he did understand clearly should be shared since the setting of this thread is very sober.

are you saying they do not have youth camps at the La camp grounds??

The old Prosperity spirit is not hard to identify. He is the Prince of many spirits of which the Cathedral of Wisdom is a subset of very subtle spirits. Why would anyone that claims to be Apostolic drink in such a wicked spirit? And then, to be given freedom of the pulpit to offer the entire District a drink of the same old water of error?

It is beyond me. Are we so far removed from the old landmarks? Have we drifted so far away from our moorings that we are now lost at sea? Is there anyone left out there? Is the city empty? Has all been vastated?

He said some good things but some of what disturbed me was when he spoke about saints supporting pastors through bad times, mistakes, etc.

He used as an example of how people should be a story about preaching at a church years ago where there was a little old Cowboy in his 70's. The pastor asked the old man to come testify for WH to hear. The testimony was how that a long time ago "a man came in and headed to the front saying he was going to hit my good pastor. I stepped forward and said wait a minute sir, before you hit my good pastor you are going to have to go through me".

Now we all can appreciate that all of us would protect our pastor from bodily harm but this story was used to promote almost a vigilante type atttiude.

The whole sermon was pretty much about ignoring pastor's mistakes, supporting them no matter what, and an unquestioning almost violent protectiveness about them.

I just don't find these kinds of sermons very helpful. A man will earn respect as a pastor he isn't going to get it by a campmeeting preacher telling people they have to.

I find the whole old time Pentecostal concept of church, pastor, saint, relations more old testament in nature than New.

So I was told last night. I was told that it has been moved to Baton Rouge? Is that not right?

no, that isnt right. still at the OLD CAMP GROUNDS!!! :-)

The times, they are a changin' that's for sure!! Gullibility, seems to be on the rise as ears are tickled etc.

The way to bigger offerings and meeting needs is always the same, MORE people getting saved! More people, more finances for ministry. It really isn't rocket science. Void of that, guilt and pithy promises of prosperity are needed.

No, I caught somewhere in the middle of the preaching, which was excellent. AG recapped what he has been teaching all year about having an intimate relationship with Jesus and loving not the world....we need to be rooted.

I can promise you that nothing will be said to the man. Nothing ever is. We never hold men accountable for their false teachings. All that really matters is that he is following the Articles of Faith. If it is not covered there, we don't think it really matters that much.

That is how we fall for such drivel as the magic hair doctrine.

I know exactly what you are talking about. I experienced the exact same thing in my district. Although the evening preacher is very good and one of my all time favorites, I felt like your post came right from my own heart.

God is too great for this despair. He has always reserved to himself a remnant.

Sorry for you Brother Strange. Things are changing in many circles. That is why we must be very careful...very careful...
Just yesterday in our devotions I spoke to some of our children (grown) about the spirit of error...
So strong is that spirit that if we do not have the REAL THING we will be carried away.
The peer pressure that is in circles is depressing...
Friends, we need to pray...

Perilous times won't [i]come[/i] . . . they're here RIGHT NOW!!!!
 

This is a vivid and terrifying portent for those of us with young children.

Matthew 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Your report gives us much to ponder, including adapting the working definitions of "false prophets" and "the very elect" to see if they fit any templates, groups, or personalities in our precious UPC. The UPC was founded to prevent this sort of travesty, not spread it. If our "elect" is susceptible to deception, we're all sunk. Or perhaps, our "elect" are no longer God's elect.

I was taught early on that anybody claiming to be a prophet ought to be regarded quite carefully, as time most often reveals that what they have isn't prophecy but a lot of gall. I'm not disparaging any individuals here.

The OT isn't invalidated by the NT, it's fulfilled. Our structure has its roots in Catholicism, just like every other protestant denomination of Christianity. Our "priests" (pastors) are believed to have, rather than priviliged authority with God, priviliged insight with God for the spiritual development of his flock.

At the end of the day, what are you going to do? Internet church? House church?

Questioning has its place, however some stuff is the way it is for good reason. Such as, it works! :)

Yes, amen!

This alone brings me encouragement. The woman (the remnant) has fled to the wilderness. The city is left empty...there is no continuing city. Now alone in the wilderness, in great bewilderment, we seek one to come.

Still in my room with no heart to go to the campgrounds. Maybe tonight. Maybe I'll eat something today. Maybe I'll meet up with an old friend in the restaurant. Maybe he will cheer my heart and pay for the meal. Maybe I'll cheer his heart and pay for his. At any rate, I would be cheered.

Oh sister...how correct you are!

You never see a germ that enters into the body from the outset. Never. But slowly, gradually, sometimes taking many days, it begins to manifest. I now see it manifesting. I have no idea when it came in or even how it got in. Must all be lost? Are there not any TRUE prophets left anymore? Have they all bee stiff-armed in favor of the false prophets? Has the index (pointing) finger been totally amputated from the five-fold ministry?

The true prophets today are not loved, accepted and fellowshipped too much. They are prophesying war, famine and pestilence while the false prophets are prophesying peace, prosperity and tickling someone's ear in the name of a gift. The true prophets are all alone. They are never in step with the whole. They weep when others are shouting and shookamooing. They are shouting and shookamooing when the body is weeping in sackcloth and ashes.

Sister, let us pray. The old ship of Zion or in rocky, perilous waters while too many are asleep, not watching.

Seems to me, if I read the Book correctly, that the NT Apostolic model is HOUSE CHURCHES, OPC.

What we have here is a fork in the road ... I believe Elder Strange is sensing that the church is heading down the road of "prosperity" .... with it's grandiose and elaborate cathedrals and over-sized indulgent ecclesiastical and politicized religious leaders.

While there is a yearning to simplify the church. And its not about changing location, who is in charge, or the way we do church. It's about who we are. We have forgotten that WE ARE THE CHURCH. All of us.

I think its not so much about structure but attitude.

Bro Strange,

You're making the church of God to resemble the apostate nations of Israel and Judah before the they were led captive by the Assyrians and Chaldeans. If this were so, if these times are similar to those OT times, then God would send his prophets rising up early and calling his people to repent. Are you sure or is this just one false prophet you are grieving over? and how do you know others do not discern what you discern?