UPCI History, Truth ?????????
 

Greetings to All,

I know little about Apostolic history. The following came by email from John Sims.

Is Brother Sims correct?


In Jesus,
Brother Bruce



His email read:



Catholic Church History = Compromise of truth.

PCI + PAJC = UPC

In the Beginning.

Just before the end of WWII the political leaders of two Jesus name organizations decided to explore the possibility of merging the two groups into one. One of these groups was called the Pentecostal Church International (PCI). The other was the Pentecostal Assemblies of Jesus Christ (PAJC).


The driving force behind the initial discussions was expansion and finances. The PCI at the time was very financially sound but was limited in ministers for missions. The PAJC had the ministry base to expand but did but did not have the financial base for mission operations.


On the surface a merger of this type would be a marriage made in heaven. Below the surface there was a major roadblock preventing a possible merger. The problem was both groups had two completely different plans of salvation.


PCI: This group believed the following. Full salvation takes place at Repentance where man receives Forgiveness & Remission of sins. The Blood is applied at Repentance where man is also Justified by faith without works and is fully saved. The Baptism of the Holy Ghost is a second work of grace and is not required for salvation since all believers are In-dwelt by the Spirit at Repentance.


In PCI theology Water Baptism was just an outward sign of the inner change and had no connection to salvation. This was due to the power of the Blood of Jesus Christ being applied at Repentance, which resulted in Justification and salvation. While a Holiness lifestyle was commanded by the word of God, it was not required for salvation.


PAJC: The PAJC taught Repentance is where a sinner dies, then must be Water Baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, and receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost to be saved. The Blood is applied at Repentance, Water Baptism, and the Spirit Baptism. Forgiveness of sins takes place at Repentance and Remission of sins take place in Water Baptism. Ac 2:38 is where the Born Again of the Water & Spirit Salvation requirement takes place. Then, a Holy lifestyle is required for a Christian to be saved.


After much discussion and debate by the leaders of these two groups, a COMPROMISE was drawn up so a merger could take place and then the UPC was born. In this COMPROMISE both groups basically agreed to disagree, then join ranks for financial and expansion reasons.


Once uncovering these major differences in the plan of salvation between these two groups the author of All The Counsel of God came to the following conclusions.


Both the PCI & PAJC doctrinal positions had enough leaven (false doctrine) to leaven what little truth each proclaimed. The leaven each embraced as truth was either passed down by the different Trinity movements at the Azusa Street outpouring 1903-1906, or was a gross miss interpretation of key scriptures by key Jesus Name ministers. In most cases these early ministers had the anointing to preach but their knowledge of the Word of God and Christian history was very limited. It was and is today, this "Lack of Knowledge" and "False Doctrine" that will prevent the members of the PCI, PAJC, UPC, and all other Jesus Name groups from being saved.


As it turns out salvation cannot be received from man made organizations, groups, or movements, of like believers. Salvation only comes between the individual believer and his Saviour Jesus Christ. This salvation will be bases on 100% truth, not 99.9% or anything less. When the Lord wishes someone to be saved, he will send someone like a Peter to Cornelius, with the true plan of salvation.


The heart of the PAJC-PCI COMPROMISE, which came from The Devil, is contained in the official by-laws of the UPC and of course are hidden from the Blind Sheep of the UPC. The following by-law statements are at the core of this COMPROMISE.


UPC-By-laws: "We shall endeavor to keep the UNITY of the Spirit until we ALL come into the unity of the faith, at the same time admonishing ALL brethren that THEY SHALL NOT CONTEND for their different views to the disunity of the body." (Apostolic truth cannot be contended for in the UPC because of this by-law statement.)


Jude 1:3-4
3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should "earnestly contend" for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
4 For there are "certain men" crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.


UPC-By-laws: "Pardon and Forgiveness of sins is obtained by genuine repentance, a confessing and forsaking of sins. "We" are justified by faith in the Lord Jesus Christ (Ro 5:1). (In Apostolic truth, Pardon and Forgiveness of sins does not take place at Repentance, they take place at Apostolic Water baptism. This truth makes the UPC COMPROMISE a strong delusion to believe a lie and be damned. Without Apostolic interpretation of who the "WE" are in this text, one will be deceived by Reformation interpretation and false leaven. The PCI claimed this to be salvation, the PAJC did not. The COMPROMISE just lets it hang without correct interpretation and the blind follow the blind.) John the Baptist preached repentance, Jesus proclaimed it, and the Apostles emphasized it to both the Jews and Gentiles.


What is missing in all of this SIN of COMPROMISE is true Apostolic teaching on the Born Again process, the process of salvation, the doctrines of the Blood, Water, and Spirit, the Foundation of Christ, Biblical Holiness, developing a Pure Heart, and the Bible codes of Apostolic interpretation.


Bottom Line: Any man made religious organization born by the spirit of compromise, this organization and its members will always compromise truth.


Why does the Bible say the righteous are scarcely saved? (One foot in hell, the big toe in heaven, so to speak.)


A. Any lack of truth will send one to hell as fast as the presence of any false doctrine.


99.9 % of truth is a false gospel.


Bishop John D. Sims
Apostolic Bible Center
abc238@verizon.net

So who is this Bishop Sims? Apparently a Trinitarian? No Jesus name groups can be saved?

Does this include any foundation doctrine? The second coming? The eternal judgment? I would certainly like to examine his statement of faith.

Michael,

Sims is condemning the UPC.

He didn't state his doctrine clearly in this email. He only gave the reason why he thought the UPC is condemned. I think Sims (is an Apostolic) must either agree with the PCI or the PAJC salvational doctrine but not both. From what I can understand, I think he believes it's wrong that they merged to form the UPC since both groups were compromising their own brand of truth for unity.

Brother Sims believes the UPC has been taken over by people who espouse incorrect salvation doctrine.

Brother Sims believes that the blood is applied in water baptism, and that the majority of the UPC has gone into error in teaching (as he supposes) that the blood is applied in the Holy Ghost baptism. He claims the lack of genuine revival and holiness in the UPC is because of this de-emphasising of water baptism.

I communicated with him by email several years ago. He was writing a book, but I lost contact with him.

He is definitely Oneness.

Somebody (don't remember who) said, "History is a fable agreed upon."

What we've heard as "history" is some times slanted and distorted.

I happen to be a "one-stepper" but the way the PCI and PAJC doctrines of salvation were presented in that article was an over simplification. Not all PCI folks were one-steppers. We don't really know how many were. Those figures have probably been exaggerated by some and minimized by others depending on what they wanted to get across.

I received an email from him also.
His identity is known by some on this board or maybe on GNC.

Hi sis
I would like to know what he really believes and why I sense such a bitterness/hardness in his article.Interesting than anyone would attack
any group who stands for One God,Jesus Name.I wonder what Jesus
thinks about it.

If this is the same guy I use to get emails from, and I believe it is because it is the same name. He is EXTREMELY bitter. He has attacked many people in hate filled emails. I wouldn't trust anything in an email that came from him.

I haven't seen anything quite as strong as jwharv describes but the sender is a fairly well known source of spam-like letters targeted at Apostolic sites and email boxes.

I'd take his stuff with a grain of salt, except I'm on a low sodium diet, so I won't take it at all.

haha..I am keeping my email to myself and my study buddies.Forget that stuff.

"One-steppers" as in regeneration at belief/repentance?! I thought that was PCI doctrine, the above followed with obedience in baptism and Spirit infilling.

Am I misinformed here, too?!

One-stepper and Three-stepper are terms we use (some times in a derogatory manner) on these forums. I don't think the PCI and/or PAJC folks used those terms back then.

We use PCI one-stepper to designate someone who believes that salvation/regeneration happens at repentance and then should be followed up by water and Spirit baptism. We use PAJC three-stepper to designate someone who believes that salvation/regeneration does not happen until repentance plus water and Spirit baptism are complete.

It is my understanding that as a general rule ministers in the PCI group believed in one-step salvation and ministers in the PAJC group believed in three-step salvation. I don't know how many ministers within those organizations actually believed the way we now designate it. I've seen different figures. I don't know how accurate they are.

just a few notes.I will address the others later.
This following exerpt is incorrect:
The driving force behind the initial discussions was expansion and finances. The PCI at the time was very financially sound but was limited in ministers for missions. The PAJC had the ministry base to expand but did but did not have the financial base for mission operations.

One of the main reasons for the merger is so that the ministers could get a rail
car.It was hard to travel in those days.The expansion was not about an organizational expansion but about the propogation of the gospel.

Yes sir, I understand this. I was just questioning your statement that not all PCIers were one-steppers...I thought that's what made them PCI in doctrine was that they were one-steppers.

Sam, I have some questions for you, as I don't understand the PCI view, having never heard of it before these forums existed to me.

I understand that the PCI view says that one is 'saved' at repentance, but should be baptised and receive the Holy Ghost. Is this true?

I will follow up with the others after your answer.

PCI actually stands for Pentecostal Church Inc. which was a Oneness Pentecostal organization. Some ministers in the PCI believed a person was saved at repentance. We don't really know how many believed that way. Was it a small percentage? half? most? all? We don't know.

Today we use the term PCI to describe a person who believes in salvation/regeneration at repentance. We've come up with that term based on what we think was the prevailing belief of the PCI organization.

What we call the PCI or one-stepper view on this forum is the belief that salvation/regeneration/justification happens when a person repents or makes a personal commitment to Jesus Christ. One steppers believe that justification is a legal term meaning that a person is declared righteous (just as if I'd never sinned). Salvation means that a person is no longer lost and bound for Hell. Regeneration means being born again or born of the Spirit.

Salvation should be followed up by water baptism. Baptism is a public declaration that the old me is dead so I'm burying him in a watery grave. Baptism is also a symbolic cleansing from sin. Baptism is also a public declaration that I believe Jesus died for me, was buried, and rose again from the dead.

The HGB (Holy Ghost Baptism), or being filled with the Spirit, or the Spirit falling upon or coming upon a person is also called the promise of the Father. A one-stepper believes that the disciples and apostles of Jesus were saved before He sent them out preaching and healing the sick during His earthly ministry and therefore were saved/born again before the Holy Ghost Baptism experience at Pentecost in Acts chapter 2. The HGB is an empowering experience for someone who is already a child of God. In other words, Peter was saved because he believed Jesus was the Christ, the Son of God. Later he was filled with the Spirit in Acts 2:4, filled again in Acts 4:8, and filled again in Acts 4:31.

Some of the leaders (including the General Supt.) of the UPC when it was formed in 1945 were one-steppers. It is a valid view among Oneness Pentecostal teachers, preachers, and saints.

There is another thread going right now titled "Can someone please tell me...." which also addresses this same PCI one stepper subject.

Thanks for this wonderful explanation. I'll continue with the questions.

Since one is considered saved at repentance, what happens if they don't get baptised with water and the Holy Ghost? Are they then unsaved?

No. They are just living below their promises and their privileges. Most of us do that in some way or another.

Sam, are you a "one stepper"?

Is a one stepper and three stepper a kind of dance? If so I prefer a two stepper
and Sam needs dance lessons because sooner or later hopping around on one foot is going to get him in trouble.

UPCI History, Truth ?????????
 

When we moved to our city in 1950 we lived around the corner from the

Assembly of God church. As there was no apostolic church in this city we

visited this church a few times. A girl in my class at school attended there

and we became best friends. Later after we graduated from high school,

she married the AOG pastor's only child, a son, who was in our class also.

We all graduated together in 1957 (50 yrs. ago this past May). Sept. 8th

we will gather together and have a 50th reunion of our classmates. Not

one has died. This best friend of mine who married the AOG pastor's son

has been very ill and is still not well. I have prayed that if He would see

fit, let her live to be there. Years ago she and her husband left his dad's

church and went to a larger AOG church ten miles away. They went a

different direction. Today they attend a local (not AOG)church in our city.

One thing I remember her telling me many years ago while in her father in

law''s church. That they believed you were saved when you accepted

Christ as your personal Savior and then you were baptized. Although you

were saved after accepting Christ and being baptized, it was good, though

not necessary to be saved, to seek the Spirit. The church they attend now

teach that you accept Christ as your personal Saviour, are baptized as an

outward sign. I do not see much difference in that and what they grew up

in. The thing about it, it sounds very much like what I am hearing here that

the "one-steppers" believe. Three totally different groups but it sounds like

the same basic plan of salvation. John the Baptist came teaching of One

who would baptize them with the Holy Ghost and with fire. John decreased

and Jesus increased. After His death, burial and resurrection, He taught his

disciples and then opened their understanding to what the scriptures meant.

They obeyed and received. Has what He taught His disciples changed. What

they did proves what He told them to do and they did it.

Jesus told His apostles that even as His Father had appointed Him a kingdom

so He appointed them a kingdom. He told them that if they suffered with Him,

they would reign with Him.(in glory). He told them that in the re-generation,

when He sat in the throne of His glory, they would also sit on twelve thrones

judging the twelve tribes of Israel. I want HIM to open my understanding as

I want to be where He and His "little flock" are. He said it was the Father's

good pleasure to give them the Kingdom. And that Kingdom was not meat and

drink but righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Ghost. Don't tell me it is

not important to receive the Holy Ghost as they did in Acts. Paul said he was

not ashamed of the gospel of Jesus Christ for it is the POWER of GOD unto

salvation to them that believe, no matter who they were. He gave them the

keys and it was opened to them. The Spirit and the Bride said "Come", to

all that are thirsty, and as of last Sunday, they were still coming where we

teach that "Blessed are they who do hunger and thirst after RIGHTEOUSNESS

for they SHALL be filled"!

My late father, who with his mother came out of a denominal church in

1933-34. wanted to sit down with the AOG minister and in brotherly love

with their Bibles, discuss their differences. This man told my dad that they

were friends now but if they did that they would not be friends. The AOG

minister had circulated tracts all over town against the teachings of what

we believed and taught. As a young girl with two of my siblings, we picked

okra for a man and his wife who was AOG and we were told that their

church was fasting and praying for those "new lights" to leave town. We

were the "new lights". As a child (11 or 12 yrs. old) I didn't understand what

the issue was. The work Dad and Mom started for God in 1958 still stands

as a witness today, almost 50 yrs. later. (Nov.12, 2008). I was there when

it happened and I guess I ought to know!:happydance:happydance

Blessings,

Falla39

Please let me say that I love everyone. If there is to be understanding

we need to "talk" about these things in the spirit of brotherly, sisterly love.

The love of Christ shed abroad in our by the Holy Ghost. To become upset

or provoked helps no one.

Blessings,

Falla39

So they are saved at repentance and will make it in the pearly gates, even if they don't get baptized by water and the spirit?

just a few notes.I will address the others later.
This following exerpt is incorrect:
The driving force behind the initial discussions was expansion and finances. The PCI at the time was very financially sound but was limited in ministers for missions. The PAJC had the ministry base to expand but did but did not have the financial base for mission operations.

I understand that one of the main reasons for the merger is so that the ministers could get a rail card.It was hard to travel in those days.The expansion was not about an organizational expansion but about the propogation of the gospel

How will our mortal bodies be quickened without the Holy Ghost? How will our sins be remitted without having been baptized in His name?

Sam isn't the only one who can answer these questions. There are others here who are of the PCI flavor who can answer these questions all the same.

good questions sub, answer no way , dt:killinme

How about the Bunny Hop?
Anybody remember that?

In the way the term is used here, yes.

I believe salvation/justification/regeneration happens when a person turns from sin and asks Jesus Christ to forgive his/her sins and by faith makes a personal commitment to Jesus.

Bump for a one-stepper to explain.

That is my understanding of the Scriptures.

Water and Spirit baptism are very important.

In Acts chapter 2 (30 AD) there were 3000 who were water baptized. We don't read whether or not any received the Holy Ghost Baptism.

In Acts chapter 8 (winter AD 31/32)
when Philip went to Samaria, many received the word (got saved) and were water baptized and two Apostles were sent down to pray with them and minister the HGB (Holy Ghost Baptism). Verse 17 says, "Then they began laying their hands on them, and they were receiving the Holy Spirit."

In Acts chapter 8, Philip made sure the eunuch believed in Jesus and then he baptized him in water. Some old versions of the text show that the Eunuch received the HGB. They read, "Then he commanded the chariot to stand still and they wend down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch: and he baptized him. And when they were come up out of the water the Spirit of the Lord fell upon the eunuch, and the angel of the Lord snatched Philip away."

In Acts chapter 9 (January AD 32), Saul made a commitment to Jesus on the road outside of Damascus. Three days later Ananias came into him and said he came "that you may receive your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit." He laid his hand on Saul and we assume that's when he received the HGB. Then he told Saul "So now, what are you waiting for? Get up; immerse yourself and have your sins washed away as you call on His name" (Acts 22:16)

In Acts chapter 10 (AD 38) as Peter preached the Gentiles believed the Gospel and the Holy Ghost fell on them. Then Peter commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.

In Acts chapter 16 (summer AD 50) it tells about a business woman who heard the word and the Lord opened her heart and then she and her household were baptized in water. There is no mention of the HGB.

Later in that chapter we read of the jailer who believed with all his family and all his family were baptized in water. Again, there is no mention of the HGB.

In Acts 18 (fall AD 51) in Corinth, Paul began by preaching in a synagogue and then moved to a house for meetings and we read that "many of the Corinthians, hearing, believed, and were baptized (18:8). There is no mention of the HGB but we find out later that there was a lot of tongue speaking going on at that church and Paul told them "...you were enriched n everything by Him in all utterance..."(I Cor 1:4) and when he speaks about their baptism the wording indicates that they had been baptized in the name of the one who was crucified for them (1 Cor 1:13-17).

In Acts 19 (October AD 53) Paul preached to some disciples of John the Baptist and explained the Gospel and afterwards they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus, and when Paul laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them and they spoke with tongues and prophesied.

So, the way I understand the early church, after people were saved or converted they were water baptized right away, (even the same day or night some times). Also, it is some times recorded that these new believers received the HGB.

The standard teaching about the new birth and salvation as preached by many Apostolic or Oneness Pentecostal ministers, including UPC officials, and as taught in some UPC schools is:

A person is justified (made right with God); saved (delivered from sin's penalty and power and from eternal death); and born again (enters the family of God) at repentance/conversion. At that time Jesus comes into the person's heart as the Holy Spirit. So the Holy Spirit is living within. At that time the person's sins are forgiven/remitted (the same Greek word is translated forgiveness in some places and remission in other places).

So a person has the indwelling Spirit (for quickening) and has his/her sins forgiven/remitted at justification/conversion/regeneration.

That conversion/salvation experience is followed by water baptism using the name of Jesus plus maybe some titles like "Lord" and/or "Christ"

Each Christian is encouraged to receive an enduement of power called the HGB (Holy Ghost Baptism) the same way that Jesus encouraged His disciples to seek for and receive that experience called "the promise of the Father" (Acts 1:4-8)

This is nothing new. It's been preached in our Oneness Pentecostal and Apostolic (UPC and other organizations) churches for years. Some of you just haven't heard it that way before.

This is why the fundamental doctrine statement was worded the way it was when the UPC was formed in 1945. It gave room for both one-steppers and thee-steppers to come together in fellowship and cooperation with mutual respect for one another's views.

I agree. The Apostolic pioneers were one-steppers and three-steppers and some of them agreed to form the United Pentecostal church in 1945. They agreed to endeavor to keep the unity of the Spirit and not contend for their different views to the disunity of the body.

Today we use the terms PCI one-stepper and PAJC three-stepper to describe those views but I do not think we should put one another down or judge one another when we see things differently. We are all one Body and we are brothers and sisters in the Lord.

Hey my cousin had 78's.Remember Appalachacola USA? We did the bunny hop and it was two footed.

You're right. Back in the mid fifties we did the Bunny Hop in Gym class. And it was three hops forward on both feet after doing the other steps.

Thanks, Sam. I like how you put that all together, and I agree with your closing statements.

However, that wasn't my question. While it's true that people were baptised and/or received the HGB about the same time, what if they didn't feel the need to continue after repentance? I mean, if one is told they are saved, why bother with the rest?

That's what I really want to know, and how do the one-steppers deal with that.

I can't answer for all one-steppers but here are my personal thoughts on that.

I believe that a person is saved when he/she calls on the Lord for mercy and makes a personal commitment to Him. In my opinion, this would include someone who went forward in a Billy Graham Crusade, would include a soldier in a foxhole, would include a little child at his mother's knee praying in family devotions, would include someone responding to an altar call in a Oneness Church, etc. I believe that justification/salvation/regeneration happens at that time. Many of those folks know nothing about water baptism in Jesus' name and many do not know about the Holy Ghost Baptism. Some, if they heard about Acts 2:38, would filter it through their current understanding of the Bible (like we all do with stuff we hear) and may consider it a false teaching. In my opinion that would not affect their salvation. Some sincere Christians have been taught that speaking with tongues ceased with the Apostles. Others have been taught that speaking with tongues is demonic. I don't know people's hearts. I don't know why folks aren't baptized in Jesus' name and why they do not receive the HGB. I have to leave that between them and God.

It is my understanding that in the early NT church, salvation was followed by water baptism. It is my understanding that the name of Jesus was mentioed in that water baptism. It is my understanding that Christians in the early NT curch were encouraged to receive the HGB. In my understanding, that would be the norm for today but because of: what we have been taught; our understanding of the Scriptures; and our own sincerety and personal commitment, we may fall short of the NT norm.

Yes sir!!

I might add this...the PAJCer is often referred to as a 3-stepper, however, IMO, this is a misnomer, at least for me.

If there are indeed 'steps', the first one is not repentance.

One must first hear the Word of faith and follow that with belief before they can ever move on to repentance.

If it were as easy as one or three steps then it would be simple
but only God knows what lies within our hearts.For some it takes
years to get to the point of repentance.Jesus works with each
soul individually.Its not just believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you
are saved. its you shall be saved.It take more it take obedience to the
Word.It takes more than one or three steps but it takes a born again
bible experience that does not fall short of what the Apostles preached
and taught.

It's not one step, two steps, or three steps......it's the recipe of salvation. First you have to put repentance in the bowl, then you can mix the rest as you see fit. Receive the Holy Ghost, then be baptized in Jesus Name or be baptized in Jesus name then receive the Holy Ghost it don't matter which way, it's a matter of having all the ingredients.......