Can someone please tell me...?!
 

I am almost 56 years old and was brought to the house of God and dedicated when I was a month old. So, though I have not always lived the saved and sanctified life, I am not a novice to the Apostolic Church.

In my youth, I learned about the Church and it's birth on the Day of Pentecost. They taught me about Topeka, Kansas, and the Azuza Revival. I knew about the withdrawl from the AG in 1916 and the formation of the different Apostolic organizations. I knew that the UPCI was the result of a merger in 1945...the complete details I did not know until recent years, but the merger I was aware of.

I grew up hearing and knowing the names of Brothers Goss, Vouga, Haywood, Urshan, Witherspoon, Cook, Ewart, Durham, Parham, Seymour. They were as familiar to me as my own name.

But can someone tell me WHY I never heard of the men listed below who ALSO were pioneers of the gospel?!

Brother WM Greer

Brother Earl L. Jacques

Brother EP Wickens

Brother John H. Dearing

Brother Wynn T. Stairs

Brother Raymond Beesley

I have read countless books on this subject...so why are their names foreign to me?! What impact did they have on this gospel message being spread in the last century?! How come important details and names were omitted from my Apostolic education?!

Or am I the only ignorant soul in the bunch?!

I have never heard of these men either. :nah

the current generation, and the generation before (mine) knows even less about it's Pentecostal roots....

Thank you...at least I don't stand alone in my ignorance of these men...

I've heard of Bro Greer, but don't recall from where though.... none of the other people I have heard of.... but then again I'm just a youngster around here....

And this makes me weep, Mal...

anyone ever heard of a preacher by the name of Bro Duke (he was blind I think) or Sis Fraiser (from Starks, LA area) who was, perhap still is, known as a prophetess....

No, Mal...I haven't...

I doubt some have even heard of Bro Pugh, Bro Becton, Bro Cole, etc the oldest living generation of preachers.... they would know of Bro J. Jones, Bro Mangun, Bro Stoneking, Bro Williams, Bro Arnold, Bro Maddix, etc though.... because they would have seen or heard them during their lifetimes....

This is true...

You know, I feel as if I was stunted in my growth somehow. Was my Apostolic education edited for a reason?!

It disturbs me...

Bro. Greer is from Tennessee.

I was never taught about my Pentecostal roots in SSchool.... all the knowledge I currently have is from stories I've heard in sermons and/or books that I've heard regarding the topic....

An interesting question to ask would be, Do churchs teach about our 1900+ Pentecostal history in SSchool classes? I wasn't aware they did....

I am learning this now, Renda...I am disturbed in my spirit I guess because these men made a huge impact on the Church, yet we were not told, at least up here, about them.

Was it because they weren't all PAJC?!

You don't have the answer to why I wasn't told, and perhaps no one does...I am just sounding off...!!

In SS?! No, I don't recall that. But we were taught other ways...in classes at church and in the Apostolic books my parents had...none of these folks I named were mentioned, nor was the full impact of the merger.

ohhh I thought you were talking about SSchool....

no, i may have been in adult classes where bits and pieces of Pentecostal history was shared.... but not as much as I've studied for myself....

Oh I'm sorry for the misunderstanding...

When I said that "they" didn't teach me, it was not just the elder who taught church history from his huge chart, or our then pastor sharing tidbits.

It was the books on church History which left out vital pieces of information.

The more I am learning, the less I understand this...

Sis Barb.....decades ago I heard of Brothers Stairs, Beesley and Greer. Of course, I'm older that a lot of the other posters on here.

I don't remember how I heard of them. I probably read some of their writings, or possibly heard them preach at conferences, etc.

I never heard of a number of men and women mentioned in CWTC. That's why it's important to read. There is a lot of valuable information and history there that many will never ever know because they've never been exposed to the info.

Even if what others say - that it was written with an agenda and with an attitude - it isn't a good reason to discount the book itself or the information contained therein.

It's not like it's going to hurt anyone for pete's sake. It's just history ... much of which has been well documented in more than one way.

Historically, books have been burned because why? Because of "fear" mostly.

I agree, but fear of what, Felicity?! That some may learn that the UPCI was founded by good men from two Apostolic groups, who held to the same basic doctrine, yet with differences of opinion?!

Fear that some may come to know that this united effort of not contending for the different views to the disunity of the Body worked for 40+ years?!

Fear that we might understand that the Church as it stands today is still made up of a diversity of people whose core beliefs are the same, yet there remains the differences?!

Fear that coming to this understanding, one may shed their convictions?!

I cannot explain really why this is disturbing me so tonight, but it is...to think that I thought I knew my background, only to come to the realization that I really didn't know at all.

Perhaps I am just naive...that this is the way of the world, be it secular or religious.

I don't know...

Can someone shed light on these men...where they were from...their accomplishments for Kingdom sake?!

Pentecostal Pioneer books are rather informational. Some of the men mentioned in the first post are in those books.

Not the ones I've read, HO...and not the second list of men. Is that what you're referring to or the first group?!

I have just been reading this thread and was about to post very similar to what you did here.

Thanks!

Bros. Stairs and Greer are in those books. I've not heard of the others, that I can recall.

Thank you...do you recall what was written about them?!

My husband interviewed Jimmy Greer while he was in Bible school for a paper. I remember he was amazed at what all he learned talking with him. Wish I had that paper and I could at least share that with you, but it's gone.

You silly!

All you have to do is ASK EPLEY!!!!!!

Really?! That would have been most helpful, Renda.

It is just amazing to me that what I thought I knew I don't know at all...I sound like a broken record here, but oh well, huh?!

LOL!! Well I am still waiting on someone who can tell me something about these other men...but the evening is young.

Alas, I am not and may have to turn in before the answers are forthcoming...oh well, tomorrow's another day.

Well, I can give you Jimmy Greer's phone number if you'd like to interview him. He lives here in Memphis.

WM Greer was his uncle.

I think it's funny that I remember (and heard) the ones underlined here. But as far as the others (the newer guys) go, I have heard of a couple, but never heard them personally. shows how out of touch I am, eh?

LOL!! Now Rendagirl, not sure I'm ready tonight to go that far...though I'd sure like to.

Thank goodness for AFF where I can sound off...gives my mom and dear friend a break from hearing my voice.:winkgrin

WM Greer was here in Jackson for years, and was still alive until just a few years ago. He was a little short round guy with white hair whose wife always died her hair jet black. She was a hoot!! Then she died and he remarried; I didn't know the second wife. He was a funny, funny man, but full of tidbits of wisdom like TF Tenney. We loved him!

Young 'uns, young 'uns.

I heard of them all though I did not personally know them all. I probably knew brother Wynn T. Stairs the best. He was a tall skinny Canadian who became the Foreign Missions Director of the UPC. He later left the UPC and went back to Canada to assist in the formation of another organization which name I forget at the moment. I knew this good man very well.

The only other one of the group that I knew personally was brother Greer. These men I knew since they were UPCI though they were both of the PCI persuasion in regards to the NB.

I heard a couple of the others preach in conferences in years gone by but I did not personally know them. I have an old recording on a 78 rpm record of Bro. Beesley singing. Interesting.

Yes.

At one time, he was a great friend of R. G. Jackson who was from up there somewhere...maybe even in Jackson. He (Greer) came to Gulfport, Ms to visit the church where R. G. Jackson pastored a church for a while. I saw him there on one occasion.

Bro. Beesley singing? Now that would be a rare item for sure. :)

It wasn't a new organization exactly that Wynn Stairs was involved with. What happened is that the AD separated from the international body and formed the United Pentecostal Church of New Brunswick.

They later reaffiliated with the UPCI during our 2nd year of Bible School. That would have been 1973.

This is all SO interesting...it brings tears to my eyes again...I have been weepy most of the day.

Bro. Strange...did the powers that be know that the elders you mentioned were PCI in NB view?!

Oh yes....

In those days there was such a brotherly kindness among them for the sake of unity on the basis of the merger that there was no issue between them as I could at first detect. They very often exchanged pulpits at churches and campmeetings alike. They were careful not to be a nuisance to each other.

I shall never forget that bro. Oscar Vouga came to the La. Camp. He preached a really great message one night...though he was usually rather boring, I though. I mentioned to my pastor...a very strong PAJC man how much I like the preacher of bro. Vouga. My pastor said expressed his desire to see him quickly go back where he came from. That was my first indication that there were underlying dissatisfaction or intolerace with the other (PCI) view. I quickly saw that they were united as far as organization was concerned but not as far as doctrine was concerned. I always felt that the PCI folk were much more tolerant with the PAJC folk than vice/versa.

This is a huge understatement!!:killinme

He always reminded me of Humpty Dumpty - - when he would sit on the platform, it looked like his legs were just stuck out from his belly - - lol!

He was a very funny man.

He was quite rolly polly. LOL...

He was in Gulfport at the same time as sister Vouga was there. Those two were a riot. Sister Vouga was a little crusty old gal that would not bite her tongue. I remember how brother Greer would react to her in a very humours way.