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Rhoni 07-28-2007 02:51 PM

Disrespectful Children/Entitlement
 
Today I overheard a conversation about how a set of siblings had trashed their parents accusing them of all sorts of false behaviors and all because they felt entitled to have their parents go into debt so that they might go to college, not work, take minimum required classes, and party 24/7.

Correct me if I am wrong but I think we are living in the last days: children are disobedient, disrespectful and have a sense of entitlement that I never felt the liberty to have.

Seems to me that parents can't win: if they help their children financially then they accuse the parent of controlling and manipulating them through the use of money and if they don't give them money then they selfish and don't deserve the respect of their children.

The last time I read about this in the word...the Bible teaches children to be obedient and to show honor to their parents that their lives might be long on this earth...No place in scriptures does it teach to only give honor to those you think deserve it.

I am appalled at our children today...who do they think they are?

Does anyone else feel this way? :sos

Sincerely appalled, Rhoni

seguidordejesus 07-28-2007 03:00 PM

Yes, I agree.

OP_Carl 07-28-2007 03:52 PM

What a surprise. :rolleyes2

All of the women who were supposed to be training this generation to be cheerfully obedient to parents, respectful of elders, and to honor sacrifice, pursued careers instead.

A minimum wage zookeeper at a daycare facility doesn't care whether the precious young'un is trained to be a self-motivated and responsible person. All that matters is that they toe the line. Hence the Ritalin revolution.

It's easy to blame the kids, but the root of this problem is much deeper.

God help America's youth to overcome their childhoods and find Jesus.

Rhoni 07-28-2007 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OP_Carl (Post 200363)
What a surprise. :rolleyes2

All of the women who were supposed to be training this generation to be cheerfully obedient to parents, respectful of elders, and to honor sacrifice, pursued careers instead.

Quote:

Careers wouldn't have had to be pursued if men were responsible men and took care of their families as the Bible says:)! I don't know who you think you are buster but I was crippled, worked a job, went to school and raised my kids while their Daddy was out starting another family not taking care of the family he had.
A minimum wage zookeeper at a daycare facility doesn't care whether the precious young'un is trained to be a self-motivated and responsible person. All that matters is that they toe the line. Hence the Ritalin revolution.
Quote:


Ritalin is the only thing that can help a child pass school, hold a job, and raise a family if they are truly ADHD, but for those children that aren't the parents need to be whipped for not disciplining or feeding them chemical free food!
It's easy to blame the kids, but the root of this problem is much deeper.
Quote:


You can say that again...all through history the children's problems have been blamed on the mother...this is where psychology and I part company and where many controlling Apostolic ministry let the men off the hook!
God help America's youth to overcome their childhoods and find Jesus.

They need to find Jesus for sure...and much more!:tricycle

The Antagonist 07-28-2007 04:56 PM

While I agree with Rhoni above, it is true that this end blame rests not upon the children but upon the sorry condition of the home in general. Whose responsiility is that? It is the parents of course. If the parents are too lazy, uncaring, and trifling to not rule their home with an iron hand inside a velvet glove, what else can they expect?

We have lost a generation. I am not sure if we can recapture the spirit that produce "the greatest generation." I am afraid that great spirit is gone forever. As Margret Mitchell might say, "Gone with the wind."

Rhoni 07-28-2007 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Antagonist (Post 200428)
While I agree with Rhoni above, it is true that this end blame rests not upon the children but upon the sorry condition of the home in general. Whose responsiility is that? It is the parents of course. If the parents are too lazy, uncaring, and trifling to not rule their home with an iron hand inside a velvet glove, what else can they expect?

We have lost a generation. I am not sure if we can recapture the spirit that produce "the greatest generation." I am afraid that great spirit is gone forever. As Margret Mitchell might say, "Gone with the wind."

Antagonist,

This is something to think about. I consider it more the spirit of the age. It isn't that parents don't care but when the responsibility of one is let slide then the family is skewed/dysfunctional if you would. We have the Industrialization of the United States, Feminism, Abortion, No-fault Divorce, and the dissintigration of Godly principles in the schools, as well as the home. We also have too many churches and grandparents raising children, and many not taking responsibilites for their behaviors while blaming those around them.

While Scarlett thinks about things tomorrow, and Rhett doesn't give as *&%(, the children are disrespectful, disobedient, and the law of love/God is not in them. There is a point that one cannot blame the parent...when the children are adults they are responsible for their own actions and to blame the parents a cop-out.

Blessings, Rhoni

The Antagonist 07-28-2007 05:37 PM

I seeeeee.

Trouvere 07-28-2007 05:39 PM

Honestly its because in America we have so much.Our children are spoiled and feel they deserve certain things.My parents were children during the depression.My dads father died and they worked daily in fields for money
to take home to their widowed mother so they could eat.My mom was
a product of divorce and thankfully was raised by a wealthy family but before
she was taken into their home was about starved to death by a step mother.
She was always thankful for everything given to her.
I saw my dad rise and leave at five every morning to go down and catch
a boat and work as a mine engineer.He did this every week.It put something
in me called a work ethic.God is good we can still train them up and they
will not depart from it.Its funny that people think the training is only in the area of church but its every area.
I was blessed to attend private school,dance lessons,music lessons,karate class
and anything else my heart desired.My dad worked hard to pay for them because he
loved me.I did not feel I deserved them however but always knew they were the
result of my dads hard work.We raised horses and registered dogs and I did my share
of the work plus taught riding lessons all summer.I helped my dad.When he got up
at five I was up getting my boots on to feed all our animals even in winter time.
We have to put a love of the result of responsibility in our children not just a love
of things.

Rhoni 07-28-2007 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trouvere (Post 200475)
Honestly its because in America we have so much.Our children are spoiled and feel they deserve certain things.My parents were children during the depression.My dads father died and they worked daily in fields for money
to take home to their widowed mother so they could eat.My mom was
a product of divorce and thankfully was raised by a wealthy family but before
she was taken into their home was about starved to death by a step mother.
She was always thankful for everything given to her.
I saw my dad rise and leave at five every morning to go down and catch
a boat and work as a mine engineer.He did this every week.It put something
in me called a work ethic.God is good we can still train them up and they
will not depart from it.Its funny that people think the training is only in the area of church but its every area.


Sister T,

I couldn't agree with you more. My father would work and never even take a vacation. My children have the same work ethic I have and was raised with, unfortunately it is not always so.

If the man does not consider providing for his family more important than being able to take off to go to conferences or hang out with the church folks then his religion is in vain. The Bible states that if a man doesn't take care of his family, he is worse than a thief or an infidel [this means they do not truly believe in God].

I also believe the scriptures talk about the office of Bishop/Pastor/elder: They must be the husband of one wife, have their family in order, and be a good provider before thay can even think of ministry.

Blessings, Rhoni

Trouvere 07-28-2007 05:52 PM

I am in total agreement with you on that one sister.
One of the men in church was talking to use a few weeks
ago.His job requires him to put in alot of hours.I told him
how I felt about my dad sacrificing to provide for me.He
had been concerned about not spending enough family
time with his children.I did not get my dad until he came
home late in the evenings and on weekends when he did
not work but I respected him until the day he died for all
he sacrificed for me.

The Antagonist 07-28-2007 06:12 PM

So we respect our parents but we blame our kids?

OP_Carl 07-28-2007 06:14 PM

I offer no defense of infidel husbands and fathers. Your situation, as you described it, is tragic and all too common. I suspect that your reaction comes from the helplessness you have felt as you have gone through this. I hope you realize that it is a viscous cycle, passed down from one generation to the next. Nobody, certainly not I, would say that you did anything improper in providing for your family.

What's missing from our culture is an exaltation of patriarchy, where a young man's earnest desire is to establish himself such that he can attract a worthy woman of good upbringing with an offer of a secure and steadfast home and family life. Where a man is not considered fully a man until he has demonstrated his ability to manage and provide for a family well.

I maintain that the root cause for the moral degeneration of Western civilization is the loss of patriarchy. Patriarchy can only prevail when both men and women recognize its value and venerate it in view of their children. Here we are 50 years after "women's liberation" and the growing number of irresponsible men are loving it ever the more. Women nowadays will give a man all the benefits and prerogatives of marriage without exacting the commitment and responsibility. The cad wins, and the woman is left holding the bag. The diaper bag, that is, and the kid, and a job, and all the worries and responsibilities.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhoni (Post 200483)

This is something to think about. I consider it more the spirit of the age. It isn't that parents don't care but when the responsibility of one is let slide then the family is skewed/dysfunctional if you would. We have the Industrialization of the United States, Feminism, Abortion, No-fault Divorce, and the dissintigration of Godly principles in the schools, as well as the home.

And what is the root cause of all this? What is it that allows this fast-paced world to keep its pace? Our economic engine benefits greatly from the earnings and spending of women, and the extra spending by women on conveniences to compensate for their not being home makers.

Quote:

While Scarlett thinks about things tomorrow, and Rhett doesn't give as *&%(, the children are disrespectful, disobedient, and the law of love/God is not in them. There is a point that one cannot blame the parent...when the children are adults they are responsible for their own actions and to blame the parents a cop-out.
Yes, this is technically true. But we now have a generation of adults whose thinking is still adolescent. Quite literally, they don't know how to be responsible for their own actions. One can't simply holler at some deliquent 30-something, "Grow up!" and get any appreciable result.
Quote:

If the man does not consider providing for his family more important than being able to take off to go to conferences or hang out with the church folks then his religion is in vain. The Bible states that if a man doesn't take care of his family, he is worse than a thief or an infidel [this means they do not truly believe in God].
I am all about this. I take this very seriously. I believe it. I teach it to my sons.

Quote:

I also believe the scriptures talk about the office of Bishop/Pastor/elder: They must be the husband of one wife, have their family in order, and be a good provider before thay can even think of ministry.
This used to be the standard of respectability for Western culture, not just to hold office in the church. I qualify and have served as a deacon.

Trouvere 07-28-2007 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Antagonist (Post 200517)
So we respect our parents but we blame our kids?

I don't blame my kids.I have responsible children.My son has been a Sea Bee
for eight years and worked for awhile at the Presidential Retreat.He is married with two cute girls and one on the way.His wife is able to be a stay at home mom.I am very proud of him.My seventeen year old graduates this year and is set for Business Adminstration and bible college.My ten year old wants to be a Vet.They have the example at home of hard working parents.I do indulge them a bit but I expect things to be done such as rooms cleaned,homework
done and etc.BTW my seventeen year old has been teaching Sunday School for about a year.Not an assistant but a teacher.She also sings on the platform and at district functions.So not all young people are going to
the dogs.Just so you know!:mama

The Antagonist 07-28-2007 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trouvere (Post 200529)
I don't blame my kids.I have responsible children.My son has been a Sea Bee
for eight years and worked for awhile at the Presidential Retreat.He is married with two cute girls and one on the way.His wife is able to be a stay at home mom.I am very proud of him.My seventeen year old graduates this year and is set for Business Adminstration and bible college.My ten year old wants to be a Vet.They have the example at home of hard working parents.I do indulge them a bit but I expect things to be done such as rooms cleaned,homework
done and etc.BTW my seventeen year old has been teaching Sunday School for about a year.Not an assistant but a teacher.She also sings on the platform and at district functions.So not all young people are going to
the dogs.Just so you know!:mama

It was YOUR children that Rhoni was talking about in her first post?

Trouvere 07-28-2007 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Antagonist (Post 200559)
It was YOUR children that Rhoni was talking about in her first post?

no I am afraid not.Let me correct this I have a grown son and two daughters.
The goat has kids I have children and adults whom I have raised to be
responsible.She was probably posting this after an incident or a session.
Give her a break.

Rhoni 07-28-2007 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OP_Carl (Post 200521)
I offer no defense of infidel husbands and fathers. Your situation, as you described it, is tragic and all too common. I suspect that your reaction comes from the helplessness you have felt as you have gone through this. I hope you realize that it is a viscous cycle, passed down from one generation to the next. Nobody, certainly not I, would say that you did anything improper in providing for your family.

What's missing from our culture is an exaltation of patriarchy, where a young man's earnest desire is to establish himself such that he can attract a worthy woman of good upbringing with an offer of a secure and steadfast home and family life. Where a man is not considered fully a man until he has demonstrated his ability to manage and provide for a family well.

Quote:

Dear OP-Carl,
You have hit on something here. I know that if the men had to work to provide a home, a car, and finanical stability prior to marriage, then this would cut down on the struggle between the couple, and even the couple and their respective families.

I can only speak for myself, this is not to criticise or cut anyone down. When we married, we had $20.00 and had to live with his family. We lived with them a year before our first ministy job. Because they were paying the bills they got into our business quite often, and now that I have been on the other side...a parent of struggling children, I know that there are some rights to be had by those providing the bread, so to speak.

If young men would work, as Jacob did, 14 years for the love of his life, then things might be different. The things that come too easily are not valued. One of the top reasons for divorce has to do with finances. This should be resolved before the wedding. It is easy for a son or daughter in law to accuse the parents of either that they are trying to control them when they are not providing for their own sustainence.


Respect is lost between family members when to give to another causes hardship for the other. It causes hurt feelings, conflict between spouses, ect. So...in order for the Patriarchy thing to work...then the men have to start being responsible. I have difficulty trusting men, fathers, and God because all the men in my life have let me down. They didn't provide for my basic needs nor that of my children, so how can I trust the Patriarchy with nothing to base it on?



I maintain that the root cause for the moral degeneration of Western civilization is the loss of patriarchy. Patriarchy can only prevail when both men and women recognize its value and venerate it in view of their children. Here we are 50 years after "women's liberation" and the growing number of irresponsible men are loving it ever the more. Women nowadays will give a man all the benefits and prerogatives of marriage without exacting the commitment and responsibility. The cad wins, and the woman is left holding the bag. The diaper bag, that is, and the kid, and a job, and all the worries and responsibilities.
Quote:


This is so true! I have supported all the men in my family, and I trusted before trust was indeed warranted. For all those women who give their bodies before the man says, "I love you, Will you marry me, I want to take care of you..." we have been so foolish. They get it all and we get left with nothing...bills and a broken heart.
And what is the root cause of all this? What is it that allows this fast-paced world to keep its pace? Our economic engine benefits greatly from the earnings and spending of women, and the extra spending by women on conveniences to compensate for their not being home makers.

Yes, this is technically true. But we now have a generation of adults whose thinking is still adolescent. Quite literally, they don't know how to be responsible for their own actions. One can't simply holler at some deliquent 30-something, "Grow up!" and get any appreciable result.
I am all about this. I take this very seriously. I believe it. I teach it to my sons.

This used to be the standard of respectability for Western culture, not just to hold office in the church. I qualify and have served as a deacon.

Very good post Bro. OP_Carl. Good insight.

God Bless, Rhonda

Rhoni 07-28-2007 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Antagonist (Post 200559)
It was YOUR children that Rhoni was talking about in her first post?

I was not:tricycle

Evang.Benincasa 07-28-2007 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhoni (Post 200319)
Today I overheard a conversation about how a set of siblings had trashed their parents accusing them of all sorts of false behaviors and all because they felt entitled to have their parents go into debt so that they might go to college, not work, take minimum required classes, and party 24/7.

Correct me if I am wrong but I think we are living in the last days: children are disobedient, disrespectful and have a sense of entitlement that I never felt the liberty to have.

Seems to me that parents can't win: if they help their children financially then they accuse the parent of controlling and manipulating them through the use of money and if they don't give them money then they selfish and don't deserve the respect of their children.

The last time I read about this in the word...the Bible teaches children to be obedient and to show honor to their parents that their lives might be long on this earth...No place in scriptures does it teach to only give honor to those you think deserve it.

I am appalled at our children today...who do they think they are?

Does anyone else feel this way? :sos

Sincerely appalled, Rhoni

Spoiled Brats indicate The End Times?

"Times are bad. Children no longer obey their parents, and everyone is writing a book."
-- Marcus Tullius Cicero (106 BC –43 BC)

Trouvere 07-28-2007 07:24 PM

Naw spoiled brats indicate the need of a rear seat application.:killinme

Rhoni 07-28-2007 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa (Post 200592)
Spoiled Brats indicate The End Times?

"Times are bad. Children no longer obey their parents, and everyone is writing a book."
-- Marcus Tullius Cicero (106 BC –43 BC)

:slaphappy I was expecting a three page sermon on that one...but here you have said it in a nutshell!:sshhh

Blessings, Rhoni

Rhoni 07-28-2007 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trouvere (Post 200596)
Naw spoiled brats indicate the need of a rear seat application.:killinme

Hard to do that with grown adult children...best thing to do is to cut off the money flow and put up boundaries:noidea

Blessings, Rhoni

Trouvere 07-28-2007 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhoni (Post 200602)
Hard to do that with grown adult children...best thing to do is to cut off the money flow and put up boundaries:noidea

Blessings, Rhoni

Naw you just give them the rear seat of the car application then.Take away the keys and drop them off in front of their friends at the front doors of
every place they want to go and oh yeah kiss them goodbye in front of their friends and say.....oh Johnny.....I'll be back to pick you up at ten.

I had a pride leveler old Nova that had a rocker arm that would get stuck and
when it did it smoked like a dog.My son would beg me....ma...pick me up on the side of the building....naw uncle buck picked him up right at the front door
when the bell rang.:slaphappy

RandyWayne 07-28-2007 08:04 PM

Quote:

I had a pride leveler old Nova that had a rocker arm that would get stuck and
when it did it smoked like a dog.My son would beg me....ma...pick me up on the side of the building....naw uncle buck picked him up right at the front door
when the bell rang.
I was reading this and thinking "Uncle Buck" about a half a second before reading the name in the quote.....

Evang.Benincasa 07-28-2007 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trouvere (Post 200607)
Naw you just give them the rear seat of the car application then.Take away the keys and drop them off in front of their friends at the front doors of
every place they want to go and oh yeah kiss them goodbye in front of their friends and say.....oh Johnny.....I'll be back to pick you up at ten.

I had a pride leveler old Nova that had a rocker arm that would get stuck and
when it did it smoked like a dog.My son would beg me....ma...pick me up on the side of the building....naw uncle buck picked him up right at the front door
when the bell rang.:slaphappy

And you ain't kidding Sister. I know that for a fact. :)

Brother Strange 07-28-2007 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trouvere (Post 200607)
Naw you just give them the rear seat of the car application then.Take away the keys and drop them off in front of their friends at the front doors of
every place they want to go and oh yeah kiss them goodbye in front of their friends and say.....oh Johnny.....I'll be back to pick you up at ten.

I had a pride leveler old Nova that had a rocker arm that would get stuck and
when it did it smoked like a dog.My son would beg me....ma...pick me up on the side of the building....naw uncle buck picked him up right at the front door
when the bell rang.:slaphappy

That or give it to them the way I got it when I was growing up both in school and at home too.

If I misbehaved at school, they would beat the snot out of me. Then, my parents would be told about it, then I got the snot beat out of me at home too. I was told it was good medicine.

I was spoken to once. That was enough. I knew what the next episode would be if I disobeyed. So, I just obeyed. Seems to have worked pretty good on me. I passed the same school of thought on to my own kids. I get upset with them because I don't see them pasing good ol' American applie pie philosophy on to THEIR children. It's something about PC or CPA or something like that.

At least I never did know what riddlin was all about to get the kids under control. Never knew what it was. Hard work an a good whoopin' when I needed it worked better than riddlin anyway.

Trouvere 07-29-2007 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa (Post 200634)
And you ain't kidding Sister. I know that for a fact. :)

No I am not.Pop bought us that car.I loved it.We used to drive it to Florida at
night because it didn't have ac and we loved to drive it.It was so noisy.If I remember right it had glass pacs.

Rhoni 07-29-2007 06:12 AM

I still say, along with the lack of rod, and the use of Ritalin, that I know a dozen ungrateful and disrespectful older children who need God to take them down a peg or two.

Blessings, Rhoni

P.S. and the Bible does say it will be like this in the last day. :)

Blessings, Rhoni

DividedThigh 07-29-2007 01:51 PM

i have to say that one of my daughters had that sense of entiltlement until i turned the spout off, i read someone mentioned the greatest generation, well if our kids were gonna be like that, then we would have to go back to prayer in school and the rod in school, and at home too, lol, dt


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