Divine Flesh - Post Resurrection
 

We thoroughly hashed the Heavenly Flesh and the original sin question to the extent of about 35 pages recently. It was a good discussion. I appreciate everyone's input even though I did not start that thread.

However, in line with that thought, we have almost unanimously concluded that the body that Jesus was born with was not in any way unlike our own, being made like unto his bretheren, according to Heb 2nd chapter.

Nevertheless, have you considered the state of the post resurrected body of Jesus? Would you say that his physical body is in every sense of the word, divine today? Would you now consider it to be Divine Flesh on this side of His tomb? Would you now think of Him being divine, both Spirit and Body?

If you give an answer, please substantiate your belief with scripture since you probably would have little to go on scientifically.

I will wait for your response.

Where is m' little buddy DA? Prax, where are you? Elder Epley? Anyone?

Thaniks

Would not Jesus Christ in Heaven have a immortal or spiritual body that is incorruptible like 1.COR.15 speaks of for believers in their resurrected state ?He has a body form no doubt ,but His body now is a immortal one I would think.

Ya know Elder ... I'm all "fleshed" out ...

Last time we hung out like this I got a little bored .... and you know what they say about the idle mind.

I'm getting ready for my trip to Wilmington tomorrah.

but ... I'll chime in ... if I hear anything that sounds ignant .... Caveat Praxeas.

I guess we would have to define "Divine"....the bible uses the word uncorruptable

Well what do you know we do agree.Now Prax give me your brain.

Jesus resurrected immortal with a spiritual body. A literal physical body with immortality.

Good idea...

Theios... Greek

A general name of dieties or divinities.

Here are some places that it is used:

Act 17:29 Forasmuch then 3767 as we are 5225 the offspring 1085 of God 2316, we ought 3784 not 3756 to think 3543 that the Godhead 2304 is 1511 like 3664 unto gold 5557, or 2228 silver 696, or 2228 stone 3037, graven 5480 by art 5078 and 2532 man's 444 device 1761.

2Pe 1:3 According as 5613 his 846 divine 2304 power 1411 hath given 1433 unto us 2254 all things 3956 that [pertain] unto 4314 life 2222 and 2532 godliness 2150, through 1223 the knowledge 1922 of him that hath called 2564 us 2248 to 1223 glory 1391 and 2532 virtue 703:

2Pe 1:4 Whereby 1223 3739 are given 1433 unto us 2254 exceeding great 3176 and 2532 precious 5093 promises 1862: that 2443 by 1223 these 5130 ye might be 1096 partakers 2844 of the divine 2304 nature 5449, having escaped 668 the corruption 5356 that is in 1722 the world 2889 through 1722 lust 1939.

So would anyone here be willing to say that the present condition of the physical body of Jesus is less God (divine) than His spirit? In other words, can the man Christ Jesus (out mediator) be considered LESS DIETY than His Spirit. I believe that we would all agree than His spirit is entirely diety or what is called DIVINITY. What about the man, including His body? Any less so, or is He entirely in the state of DIETY?

A PHYSICAL BODY has blood, flesh, and bones. So Yeshua does NOT have a PHYSICAL body.

Paul taught he was made A QUICKENING SPIRIT.

44: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45: And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

There are only 2 kinds of bodies. Natural (physical) and spiritual. Flesh or spirit. Earthly or heavenly.

Yeshua has an immortal spiritual body.

You do not believe that the same Jesus who went away will come again? Somehow he has changed into something that he was not when he went away? In other words, according to your thinking, Jesus no longer has a corporeal body of flesh and bones that he said he had after his resurrection?

btw, who is Yeshua?

I know nothing of Yeshua apart from the Apostles doctrine. Since Paul who was an Apostle said:

44: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45: And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 1 Cor. 15:44-45

Then who am I that I would believe otherwise?

Since Paul only gives us the option of believing in a natural body (flesh) or a spiritual body (spirit) I can only choose one of the 2 in understanding what body Yeshua now has.

You ask who is Yeshua? Well he is the Jewish Messiah. He is the Savior of the World. He is YAH the creator of the Universe manifesting himself to man. Hope that helps!

[QUOTE]Certainly, I believe the scriptures but I do not see the exclucivity that you are trying to imply that it has. I don't see Paul giving any options here, as you have assumed.

Cetainly a natural body is raised a spiritual body, but not to the exclusion of it being a natural body. The body of Jesus is a natural expression of that. If that body is not a spiritual body, what else would account for the immortality OF THAT BODY? Of course it is becomes a spiritual body.

Since I do not speak Hebrew, have no desire to speak Hebrew, do not understand those who do speak Hebrew, I would only assume that you are speaking of Jesus Christ, my Lord. He is the only Messiah that I know. But, he was NOT a Jewish Messiah. He is THE savior to the whole world.

I refuse to call Jesus by Jewish name. I only speak English. To those that speak Hebrew, I cannot relate unless they speak English, my own tongue.

[QUOTE=Brother Strange;204176]Well Paul seems to differentiate between the natural body and the spiritual body. What people generally call a "glorified body" is simply called by Paul a "spiritual body".

A natural body is simply a body of Earth as we now have. At the resurrection I will not have a natural body but a spiritual body.

46: Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 1 Cor. 15:46

You refuse to call Jesus by his Hebrew name given to him by an Angel by the command of YAH? Has anyone demanded you do so? You asked me who he is.

Now you are saying he is NOT the Jewish Messiah but the Savior of the world. If you notice I said that he WAS BOTH in my reply to you. If you deny he is the Jewish Messiah I pray he will have mercy on you.

Do you think it would be reasonable to assure that no Jewish people should call Yeshua by the English "Jesus"? When you turn it around you can see how strange what you said is.

No one asked you to use Yeshua. I am elated that I can. If a Jew wants to use Jesus thats great. If a Gentile wants to use Yeshua thats great. Why must there be a war?

[QUOTE]Michael The Disciple A spiritual body is not spirit, but spiritual. There is a difference. That is where Divine flesh people miss it as Jesus is the Lord from heaven. (BTW: there is no reference here is calling anyone a believer in Divine Flesh). Divine flesh places Jesus glorification at birth, not at glorification after completing his work being resurrected. There is a time that Jesus in the days of His flesh was made Lord and Christ, though He was born Christ the Lord.

There were many things that he had to accomplish in working salvation in and of Himself which ultimately led him to the cross in his tasting death for all of mankind. When all was finished, God made that same Jesus who was crucified both Lord and Christ in glorification...declared to be the Son of God by the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead. The body of Jesus is glorified and is divine at present. He is the God of heaven alone...Jesus is the Father, He is the Son of God, He is the Son of man, He is the Word, He is the Holy Ghost..He is all that God Is, the I AM... We shall see the nail prints in his hand...

[QUOTE=Beard;204398]Paul contrasts flesh and spirit in various ways.

Natural and spiritual. Earthly and Heavenly. Terrestrial and Celestial.

Which one do angels have? Are there bodies Spiritual, Heavenly, Celestial? If not then what?

[QUOTE=Beard;204398]So his body went from from earthly to divine??


I don't got all the answers but I think there has to be something divine when a man can enter the world without a mans sperm being used.

Can a flesh and blood body come into a room without entering a door or window?

[QUOTE]Truthseeker A divine act and being divine are two different things.
I believe in the kinosis (Philippians 2:6-10)...that God as Spirit added a human nature to Himself, taking upon Himself the form (morphe) of a servant, made (ginomai) in the likeness of men, fashioned (schema) as a man....after glorification, the man Jesus was glorified with God's own Self, all power in heaven and earth being given unto him. We will be glorified after his likeness, but we will never be God....will never have all power in heaven and earth.

The man is God.
Consider the following: Jesus in John 8 said the witness of two men is true. Jesus as a man bore witness of himself and the Father as a man bore witness of him; thus, man in the Supreme sense is God. There is a celestial man (the manchild), a spiritual man, a natural man. Jesus the man who took upon himself the form of a servant as flesh (a man) was glorified back to the glory that He had before; that is, the man who is God. Jesus is, was, and is to come, the Almighty God. (Revelation 1:8)

Where is Jesus, now?

Some will probably with a knee-jerk response state that he is seated on the right hand of God. Thinking naturally one would see a throne in heaven with Jesus the Son of God sitting on the right hand of the other Person, the Father.

However, this is not the case. The right hand of God is a state of glory. For example, if God is Omnipresent...If God is everywhere, where is the right hand position of God in longitude and latitude? There is a natural realm...then there is the spiritual realm..and then there is the Spirit with no boundaries.

Which in his times (the times and seasons of the LORD) he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; (1 Timothy 6:15). There is a time coming in the showing or revealing of Jesus Christ as the KING OF KINGS and LORD OF LORDS....not preterism but revelation...

Where is Jesus now?
"Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen." (1 Timothy 6:16).
Jesus is the only One that has immortality even though the angels are immortal and believers will be immortal at the change from God; however, Jesus has it of Himself. The Light that no angels can bear the full radiance and glory of, and the cherubim cannot for they cover their eyes and feet and are continually in flight for the fire and brilliance of this Light. As for the fullness of the glory of this Light, it will be revealed to us now in Christ and throughout eternity progressively as one is able to bear with the Light of the glory of God being so infinite that no one will know God in all things as the "eido" as Jesus knows who He is, the I AM; but we will know him being the "epiginosko" knowledge of God which is yet future, all things in part being done away with when that which is perfect is come; we as believers know Him now in "ginosko" knowledge... as we continually now and forever behold the Christ who is this Light alone; that is Light that is by, in, and through Himself alone... JESUS

All a spiritual body is IS a body that no longer is natural. A natural body is prone to death. A spiritual body is a SUPERnatural body. Same body...nothing different at all. It is simply passed from the mortal realm into immortality. Jesus fully demonstrated his SUPERnatural body or what is called by Paul the SPIRITUAL body.

Jesus in his SUPERnatural (spiritual body) dwelt with his disciples 40 days after his resurrection. He walked with them, talked with them, ate with them, they handled him. He called his body a flesh and bones body. With his spiritual body he could walk through walls, he could disguise himself as he walked with his disciples on the road to Emmaeus. His spiritual or SUPERnatural body had many powers and abilities that our purely natural bodies do not have.

See?

My body is purely natural right now. It has no supernatural abilities. It is the body of death. But, when I put off this body of death, I will put on immortality. I first must be a natural body before I can put on my natural body immortality. It is called the "Change." It is when this body will step accross the line that divides the mortal and the immortality. That is putting on immortality. First, I am a natural body, afterwards I will put on that which is spiritual when I become a spiritual body.

That does not mean I will become a ghost or some blob of cloud or anything like that. It just simply mean that I will be changed from mortal into immortality....this same body.

I too pray that He will have mercy on me. I need it. But, meanwhile, I am not going to call Jesus by some foreign name that I do not know him by.

No need for a war at all.

It is just that I am never impressed with folk who want to call Jesus by a foreign name when His name is Jesus. When you get right down to it, most of the people who want to call Jesus by a foreign name, really understand very little of the foreign language themselves. It becomes kind of silly. I am embarassed for them.

It is just best to straighten up, get real, calling Jesus by the name in your own tongue. If your own tongue is Hebrew, great then call Jesus by the Hebrew name if you are speaking Hebrew. Otherwise, just call Jesus by his name in my own tongue...which is Jesus.

Perhaps thats the problem. You think someone who calls the Lord by the name given to him by his Father is trying to impress you. Actually I do it to honor HIM. If I were trying to impress "Apostolics" I would have given up a long time ago.

Straighten up? Get real? Dont waste your embarassment on me. I rejoice in the name of the LORD (YAH) all day long! HalleluYAH he reigns!

Again and I wont ask again, using your logic do you feel it is wrong for a Messianic Jew to call Yeshua "Jesus"? After all to HIM that is a foreign name.

Most do not concern themselves with the post glorification Jesus as they believe that it is not important.

How low did He go?
How high did He go?

It is not that Jesus only became one of us in humbling himself unto the cross, but how high He went in glorification defines the work of God and who He Is.

Will not be back on for awhile....God bless you Brother Strange and you too Brother Gibson...

This is nuts. Why would you ask me to pass judgment on a Jew concerning what he might call Jesus? I neither speak Yiddish, Hebrew, or Aramaic. I wouldn't know if he was calling on the name of the Lord or reciting Romeo and Julliet. But, if that Jew calls on the name of the Lord in MY language, I understand him. Otherwise he is a Barbarian (a foreigner) to me.

I too rejoice in the name of the Lord. He indeed reigns. But I have no idea who YAH is. I doubt that you speak very much Hebrew either.

It's silly.

Yes it is silly of you to take someone to task over calling Jesus by the name he was born with. No one asked you to do so or is asking you to do so now. But the silly part is you have been doing this to me ever since back on the Good News Cafe when you were going by Adonyah.

Since you used that name you INDEED must know who YAH is. And various times when I have used a Hebrew name you have taken occasion to murmer about it. Why on Earth did you use AdonYAH for your own name if you know him not and if its silly?

But to refresh your memory I will introduce you to the God of the Bible again.

Old Testament:

4: Sing unto God, sing praises to his name: extol him that rideth upon the heavens by his name YAH, and rejoice before him.
5: A father of the fatherless, and a defender of the widows, is God in his holy habitation. Psalms 68:4 NKJV

New Testament

1: And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:
2: For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.
3: And again they said, Alleluia. And her smoke rose up for ever and ever.
4: And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia.
5: And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great.
6: And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth. Rev. 19:1-6

Note here in the New Testament Alleluia is our way of saying HalleluYAH. Also note in these verses YAH is both called God and Lord God omnipotent.

What is the meaning of Yeshua? YAH SAVES

Since you are so offended by these glorious names I will try not to address you with them and use only the English if the Lord will.

Thank you.

English, I do understand but not Hebrew, Greek, Aramaic or even Yiddish.

btw, Adoniyah is in my English bible.

Jesus is my Lord. I understand that since it is English. But, I do not speak or understand all these other languages of the world.

God preserved and watched over His own Word and delivered it to me in the exact form that he wanted me to have it in by which I have no excuse to not know him. Thank God, by the use of my own language I come to know him. I did not need to employ a foreign language to come to know him. Had a foreign language been neccessary, I might would have been lost. But, I found the name of Jesus sufficient for salvation.

This is an article sent to me by Pastor D. L. Rogers Pentecostals of Milwaukee. He sent me this article today. I recieved permission from Pastor Don Rogers to post it here.

I don't see what Brother Rogers is saying that how their water baptism in Jesus name is The Putting On of Christ's Flesh.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

8/3/07

Doctrinal lesson

Pastor D.L. Rogers

THE BAPTISM OF JOHN
Acts 19:3-5

Oneness Pentecostals who Baptize in Jesus name for the forgiveness of sins never put on the wedding garment of Jesus Christ!!!

Paul told the Disciples of Christ how were you Baptized. They said under John for the forgiveness of sins unto repentance. Paul tells them in verse 4 there is a difference between being baptized for the forgiveness of sins and understanding the faith of putting on Christ in water Baptism. These people were re-baptized.
The United Pentecostal Church teaches that water Baptism is for the remission of sins all of our sins. They say the power of water Baptism is in the name of Jesus that remits your sins. They say putting on the wedding garment of God has nothing to do with water baptism because the flesh of Jesus was just like ours without sin. They totally denounce and call the putting on of the flesh of God in water baptism false Doctrine.
Based on this there baptism is like the Baptism of John. For the remission of all of your sins. These Doctrinal statements are found in both Search for truth and In my fathers house disciple ship material of the United Pentecostal Church.. David Benard of the Urshan Graduate institute also was quoted as saying, “ all of your sins go into the water in baptism”.



Putting on Christ is for your inherited sins and your inherited flesh and not the sins you commit:


Col. 2:9-13- Paul states clearly what sins are cut away as the circumcision of Christ.
The sins you commit are forgiven by God when we repent of these sins through the cleansing blood of Jesus Christ.
Water Baptism is for the putting on of the heavenly incorruptible flesh of Jesus Christ. Because no flesh and blood can inherit the kingdom of heaven. The believer must believe that Jesus is the bread from heaven and declare with understanding he must put on this Word made flesh in water baptism in order to inherit a body like Jesus. John 8:23-24, 1 Cor. 15:45-55, John 6:45-55, Is. 26:19.
Therefore water baptism is not for the forgiveness of sins. Forgiveness comes by repentance-you receive the Holy Ghost speaking with tongues. Remission of sins comes by obedience and understanding of putting on the flesh of God as the purchasing point of the wedding garment for the bride of Jesus Christ in water baptism.
Like people in the book of acts when I get baptized with the understanding that water baptism is for the removal of all my sins, or that I am going to Hell if I don’t have the formula of Jesus name called over me, I need to be re-baptized by putting on Christ.!!!
The born again experience has two different operations of the blood and the name of Jesus Christ. The believer must understand what sins are remitted in water baptism before he is rushed into the water. If he is told all of his sins go in the water he becomes confused when he begins to struggle with his committed sins after coming out of the water. This is very dangerous.
The forgiveness of sins comes by the Spirit of God when we repent of the sins we are responsible for committing. The remission of sins comes by the Word of the Father when we obey and believe that Jesus is the flesh made by the Word and put on the heavenly man by faith in water baptism.
Like Paul said how were you baptized-under the forgiveness of sins or by the putting on of Christ.





If Jesus is taught as a man with a human nature from Mary than the believer never put on Christ because Jesus had a dust nature like us all. The believer never purchased the wedding garment of the groom. He was baptized for the forgiveness of all of his sins because they say the single nature teaching of God manifested in his own flesh is false doctrine.



Like the people in the book of acts this is the baptism of repentance. There are Churches that strongly teach the believer is not to get baptized until they stop committing sins. Although this is true the believer should change and repent of their sins, they are being taught the baptism of John for the forgiveness of sins from an oneness perspective.

The believer must distinguish and understand what he is putting on in water baptism. Very much like the Old Testament circumcision. The believer had to count the cost and know what he was doing in order to undergo a very painful circumcision.



Putting on Christ is the circumcision made without hands. For our vile bodies one day shall be changed and fashioned after his glorious body, Phil 3:20. For we wait for the adoption of our bodies made in the heavens. Our Father has gone to prepare many mansions for you and I. For our dust nature bodies will one day be put off and we will be clothed with the tabernacles made from heaven. 2 Cor. 5:1-4.



SO HOW WERE YOU BAPTIZED?

Pastor Don Rogers is likely a good man. No doubt he is truly sincere in what he believes.

Amen Elder Strange. :) Pastor Don Rogers no doubt truly sincere in what he believes as we all do.

Lord bless your heart Elder.

In Jesus Name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

so in due respect Brother Benincasa is he saying that repentance coupled with baptism is not enough for remission of sins?

Well, since we are stepping up to heaven, rung by rung, Jacob's ladder had...oh never mind!

Let me add an interesting thought...those disciples in Acts 1:9-11were the last ones to SEE THAT corporeal body Jesus arose from the grave with..no doubt it was a physical body they could see..Acts 1:9-11 I believe demonstrates the last time Jesus was seen in that body...


Acts 9 tells the story of how Paul SAW Jesus..yet it was not in THAT body of glorified flesh he left in..for Paul described the light as brighter than the noon day sun..

Acts 9:17-And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest,

1 Cor 15:8-And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.


Paul describves God in 1 tim 1:17- Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever.
Amen.

I have met people who believe Jesus Christ still has his flesh body right now in Heaven..I do not find support for such a belief..He is God right now..And as God He is a Spirit and invisible and He is omnipresent and all knowing.I will stick with scripture:telephone

He fills Heaven and earth and that includes the hearts of his saints..I do not believe He is physically stationed on a literal throne today

One question I have.
The body of the risen savior that was seen touched and handled after the resurrection that was witnessed (seen) by many as He remained on Earth for some 40 days after the resurrection, and ws seen ascending into a cloud, once again witnessed by several.
Where is that literal risen body today?
I have asked this of Bro. Burke and others, and I cannot get a straight answer.
I understand the Church is the body. But where is the body that left the tomb?
Did it evaporate?
disappear?
or what?
Thank you.

Jude 1:9-Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee

Moses was a type of Christ..

This is a great mystery and I do not think anyone knows the anwser..

2 Cor 5:16- Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

Since Jesus' body was glorified would He not be in heaven as a physical being?

1 Tim 1:17-Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

This is how Paul described God

Well, we're going to "see" Jesus when we get to heaven. Paul couldn't see God. How could He? He was still alive and well on planet Earth.

Yes I believe we will see Jesus when we wake up on the other side..but remember..We will not be in this same body...We will have spiritual bodies 1 cor 15


When Paul did see Jesus he was blinded for 3 days...Acts 9:3,9

Yes, I know. We will have glorified bodies.

So I guess I answered your question then. Mystery solved. ;) :)