From MOW's own mouth
 

I have received phone calls amidst speculation as to why I have left. Today is the first time I have logged since July. It is not and NEVER has been my intention to control anything that goes on here on this forum. I am not an owner and I have nothing invested here other than time. My comments here MUST NOT be construed as trying to hurt this forum or do anything negative in any way whatsoever.

I am FOR truth and have repeatedly stated that we NEVER need be afraid of truth or telling the truth, including why I or anyone else has left this forum, their organization, or what have you. It is truth that sets people free. I am FOR freedom of expression of ideas on this forum whether they be pro or con UPC or any other organization. Truth is truth.

I have NOT left because of anything to do the "Ohio Church" thread.

The truth is, IMO, that there is a "tension" that exists between two viewpoints on the Admin team. Those two viewpoints have caused tension on more than one occasion. Even in the midst of that, I have NEVER been treated any other way by any member of the Admin team other than with respect and kindness. However, I am not and NEVER will again be UPC. My viewpoint is at odds with some others when it comes to the level of truth that can be discussed and issues that are "fair game" on this forum.

Since I am not an owner, I do not feel that it is fair for me to "pull" the direction of this forum in any way. However, it became a source of frustration for me to go back and forth on these "control" issues. I have no desire whatsoever to re-hash those issues. I have been out of the UPC for over 10yrs and have no desire to go back and fight those battles. For that reason and that reason alone, I chose to leave so as not to cause continued friction from my point of view. The last thing I want to do is cause trouble. No one asked me to leave, quite to the contrary, I was asked to stay. I love everyone here including every single one of the Admins who have treated me kindly.

IMO, the two viewpoints can't co-exist. There is too much pressure from the outside. (purely my opinion)

In the church I pastor, we have had to deal with some extremely difficult issues, one being child molestation from one of our SS staff. He currently is prison. I hid NOTHING from the church, the police or anyone. Since we dealt with it "head-on" and other issues as well over the years, we have not even landed in the paper in a negative light. If you hide nothing, people have nothing to "dig" up.

I have gone on record stating that when truth is stifled on this forum, in any manner, I'm gone.

You all are a GREAT bunch of people who have blessed me abundantly. You are greatly appreciated. Please don't be upset if I'm no longer here. I have not hidden my true identity, phone numbers or email address. I have nothing to fear from anyone. :D To contact me, go to:

www.newlife-church.org

For you "lazy" folks out there :D


419-625-6110 Office
419-239-3429 Cell
419-433-4127 Home
manofword@newlife-church.org Email

May you ALL be blessed above measure!!!!

MOW (John Adams)

Awe.....Here you went and told the truth.. and spoiled my fun...:D

God Speed!!

Randy..

Can't you stay as a poster?

God bless MOW...you've always been the voice of reason around here. i'll miss you.

Please dont miss the reason why..... that part is important.

The reason is a little nebulous. Two opposing viewpoints in the admin team that can't coexist. Is that saying libs and cons cannot coexist in the unity of the Spirit of Christ which puts us all in the same body to further the kingdom? or is MOW tired of the constant struggle? MOW stay and be a voice of reason and love despite the disagreements. :roseglasses

John, I am so glad that you came on here and posted this....... There is nothing worse than speculation. Now we all have the facts. Thank you!!

And Ferd, you are so right! Perhaps now is the time for everyone (admin and all of us) to sit back and do a little self-evaluation. I'mnot saying that anyone needs to change. Please don't take it that way. But sometimes it is healthy for us to STOP, take a deep breath and do a little soul searching. If God tells us to change, then we should change. If we're ok, then stay as you are.

But give it some thought.

And there is more to it than meets the eye.

I understand your frustration if the truth about a situation is being censored! Frank and open discussion is the life blood of this forum. Sometimes the truth can bring a negative light on the UPC.

I also understand those that take offense to negative input about their organization. My personal family has flaws (I know that this comes as a shock!:)), but I don't like to hear others people outside of our family bring them up!

MOW, I hope you reconsider leaving, because I have always enjoyed reading your posts! As you know, I agree with you almost 100% of the time. In fact, if you pastored in Nashville, I would probably attend your church.

Yes...:telephone

Thank you MOW! I appreciate you being so transparent.

I have appreciated this Forum as being diverse. I wouldn't want one frame of mind dominating.

I like to study out the scriptures and will do that. It doesn't mean I am bashing the UPC, any other organization or independent.

Honestly, there have been some threads and posts that have really ticked me off because they seemed to be UPC bashing at the lowest. It could just be my frustration with it, because I don't want to leave, God hasn't told us to leave and I don't like people making me feel stupid for staying in.

There are going to be some posts and threads that just push some buttons. I generally don't respond and sometimes log out. :D

Even in the midst of all of that - I want it to be diverse. If I can't handle the heat, then I will get out of the kitchen - for a while. :D

There is a log out function.

So....even though my post was deleted and posed as "wrong", I was right.
Once again, spirits of division have trumped unity!
Its life the "Affirmation Statement" all over again.
MOW you are wrong!!! WE CAN CO-EXSIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We must...for only then would we TRULY be APOSTOLIC!

No, owner, admin, moderator or poster has the corner market on the true definition of "Apostolic". THAT is the bottom line!

I know all three of you owners that are UPCI Pastors...you are good guys.

BUT...MOW is a wonderful Christian man. I have known him for over 20 years and have preached in his pulpit.
HE was a "casualty" of the "Affirmation Statement" and I find it sad, and the thought of him being a "casualty" of this forum makes me feel literally sick to my stomach.
I

I think this would be a PERECT time for all to sit back and ask ourselves...what is our direction and our purpose here. Is it dialogue among friends, ministerial collegues, and other fellow Christian Bro and Sisters or is it about trying to force into a mold of conformity.

The underlying opinion of mine is this....MOW has no complaints of how he was treated....and he was clear about how respectful folks have been to him.

BUT I sense hurt in him that he would have to make the choice to leave his forum family......
It is sad that ten years later he is forced to make the same decision.


WHEN WILL WE LEARN!!!

Gotta go.....this really hurts and totally, IMO displeases the very throne of Grace.

NLYP

Is there a UPC admin dominance and control of AFF?

NO!!!!!
Three of the owners are UPC Pastors...but these are good men.

:sos:sos:sos:sos:sos:sos

Is this what Timlan spoke of? http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...&postcount=339

Very good men. Men I respect. Men who can FIX THIS.

Is any of them a heavy weight?

How about the Censorship when it come to negative issues of ministry?

...

Checking on your leeway? :killinme

MOW was not forced to do anything; any decision he has made has been by his own accord.... just as rgcraig had previously stated....

MOW will return.. I just got a feelin'... once your hooked...yur' hooked... :)

rest up MOW.. and come on back.. we'll leave the light on for ya..

Malvaro, I appreciate you. I think you are a great guy. i also think you and Renda, who I have utmost respect for, are spinning this.

I have a great deal of respect for MOW. I appreciate his integrity.

Dan, you still don't get it do you?

Yours was pulled because it wasn't YOUR place to set MOW's leaving straight.

:D

U Got Tol'!!!! :poloroid


:hypercoffee

You should have heard me on the phone! :telephone

I'm not spinning anything. MOW has stated the absolute truth.

It's an issue that we've been working on in the admin area to try and get some peace about it all.

Some of us have been very frustrated, but this forum is an awesome place and like NLYP has said I believe we can work things out if we all try.

Are we learning in the process, you betcha!

Have we got answers for everything, nope, not yet.

I hope we have provided the kick in the pants that was needed.

a) "great guy" hehehehe.... that was worth 2 brownie points.... :hypercoffee
that actually made me chuckle a bit.... :killinme

b) "spinning" is a pretty strong statement.... what we've said is truth;
what's there to spin???

rgcraig.... I think can spin better than you can.... :driving

Perhaps pastoral control of information was the glue that held the merger together? Now the internet, along with other elements of modern life, is the solvent that is mixing these heretofore-held-seperate elements together, and it is sparking some spectacular reactions.

For there to be another "gentleman's agreement" such as what bound libs and cons together in the merger, we'll first need to locate some gentlemen - a scarce commodity these days. :rolleyes2

:drama

For me, this forum has been about discovery, education and entertainment. Would this be a bad time to say in which category I've mentally placed you?

Dan, when it gets to you like this take a couple days off. God bless you!

Let me add (I have a coworker on vacation this week and don't have much time) that MOW is a welcomed member of the Admin Team.

I for one, am eager for his return. :tiphat

I think everything that both of you have said is true. but take truth, say it the right way, and it leads away from the underlying issues.

Mal, you have a strong voice in this. Please use it. this has become an integrity issue.

You misunderstand the statement...
In fact he was "forced".
He was forced by his good conscience.
I did not insinuate otherwise.

The Spin Doctor is IN... http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l7...breakdance.gif

me too!!! :D

You've just entered the No SPIN ZONE

http://www.takingdownwords.com/photo...ized/spin.jpeg

That I do understand...

Was it conscience or the choice to remove himself from a stressful situation?

If it was a matter of conscience, that would make it a right/wrong issue, and that doesn't seem to be what he is saying.

No sense in dramatizing this more than it needs to be.

OUCH!!! :uhoh

My eyes! MY EYES!!! :covereyes

That is great BOOM. I apprecate that. But I have one question. Do you want MOWs perspetive too? Not just perspective but can he be a full partner in direction? That is the thing. (and yea, I know he is not an owner but he was picked as an admin for more reasons than his ability to ban someone for saying something bad)