Apostolic Friends Forum

Apostolic Friends Forum (https://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/index.php)
-   Fellowship Hall (https://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=7)
-   -   Does Jesus know ALL things? (https://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=6833)

mizpeh 08-10-2007 10:27 AM

Does Jesus know ALL things?
 
How was Peter able to say what he said to Jesus in the verse below that Jesus knew all things, when Jesus confessed to not knowing the day of his coming and of the end of the world?

Joh 21:17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

Matt 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

tbpew 08-10-2007 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mizpeh (Post 212042)
How was Peter able to say what he said to Jesus in the verse below that Jesus knew all things, when Jesus confessed to not knowing the day of his coming and of the end of the world?

Joh 21:17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

Matt 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

just a thought...
Matt 28:18 happened between these two witnesses.

mizpeh 08-10-2007 10:48 AM

Tbpew,

I appreciate for the thought, but in the book of Revelation, Jesus had to be given the revelation from God....meaning this was something Jesus didn't know but was revealed unto Him as well.

Rev 1:1 1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Matthew 28:28 All power is not the same as all knowledge.

Felicity 08-10-2007 11:15 AM

Jesus in His humanity didn't know all things.

Steve Epley 08-10-2007 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Felicity (Post 212072)
Jesus in His humanity didn't know all things.

True.

mizpeh 08-10-2007 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Felicity (Post 212072)
Jesus in His humanity didn't know all things.

but Peter was speaking to Jesus in his humanity and said to Jesus, who was in the similtude of man, that He knew all things. Peter wasn't praying to the Jesus, who is God the Father in heaven, but to Jesus, in his human form.

bishoph 08-10-2007 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mizpeh (Post 212059)
Tbpew,

I appreciate for the thought, but in the book of Revelation, Jesus had to be given the revelation from God....meaning this was something Jesus didn't know but was revealed unto Him as well.

Rev 1:1 1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Matthew 28:28 All power is not the same as all knowledge.

We Must rightly divide the Word. Rev 1:1 1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him Is referring to a revelation God gave to John not to Jesus Christ.

mizpeh 08-10-2007 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bishoph (Post 212156)
We Must rightly divide the Word. Rev 1:1 1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him Is referring to a revelation God gave to John not to Jesus Christ.

Jesus Christ is the antecedent to 'him'.

Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place; and He sent and communicated it by His angel to His bond-servant John, NASV

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants--things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John, NKJV

Esther 08-10-2007 01:17 PM

Your thread title says "DOES" He know. The answer is YES!

Your input refers to "DID" He know. :)

Brother Strange 08-10-2007 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Felicity (Post 212072)
Jesus in His humanity didn't know all things.

Jesus lost his humanity? I think not. He is just as much a man today as he ever was. In fact, he is our proto type man.

In Jn 16:30 the disciples said of Jesus that he knew all things. This was said of Jesus because he knew their hearts. It is said that he commited himself to know man because he knew the hearts of all men. This is true in John 21 also. He knew the hearts and minds of the people.

This is not to say that before he was glorified that he knew the day and the hour. Clearly, he did not, as he testified of that inability.

However, after his glorification, he came into his omnscient state of God knowledge, knowing all things, having received all power both in heaven and in earth. Omniscience is a component of all power.

Barb 08-10-2007 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bishoph (Post 212156)
We Must rightly divide the Word. Rev 1:1 1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him Is referring to a revelation God gave to John not to Jesus Christ.

I agree...

Brother Strange 08-10-2007 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tbpew (Post 212053)
just a thought...
Matt 28:18 happened between these two witnesses.

Aaaaaah haaaaaa....

That is EXACTLY right.

A VERY GOOD thought indeed.

Praxeas 08-10-2007 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mizpeh (Post 212154)
but Peter was speaking to Jesus in his humanity and said to Jesus, who was in the similtude of man, that He knew all things. Peter wasn't praying to the Jesus, who is God the Father in heaven, but to Jesus, in his human form.

The problem is in actually separating a Jesus in His Human form from Jesus as God in heaven. Jesus is not two different persons in two different locations. Peter must have recognized that Jesus was NOT just human in nature, but was God in person and nature too. That or Peter was clueless at the time

Praxeas 08-10-2007 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bishoph (Post 212156)
We Must rightly divide the Word. Rev 1:1 1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him Is referring to a revelation God gave to John not to Jesus Christ.

No, since John is writing he would have said "which God gave to ME"...this is a grammatical construction where the pronoun can only refer to the antecedent. Otherwise grammar and language are meaningless and we can make words mean whatever we want and thus the bible is meaningless

Felicity 08-10-2007 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brother Strange (Post 212328)
Jesus lost his humanity? I think not. He is just as much a man today as he ever was. In fact, he is our proto type man.

In Jn 16:30 the disciples said of Jesus that he knew all things. This was said of Jesus because he knew their hearts. It is said that he commited himself to know man because he knew the hearts of all men. This is true in John 21 also. He knew the hearts and minds of the people.

This is not to say that before he was glorified that he knew the day and the hour. Clearly, he did not, as he testified of that inability.

However, after his glorification, he came into his omnscient state of God knowledge, knowing all things, having received all power both in heaven and in earth. Omniscience is a component of all power.

Bro. Strange...

What ever makes you think that I think Jesus lost His humanity? :confused:

mizpeh 08-11-2007 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas (Post 212444)
The problem is in actually separating a Jesus in His Human form from Jesus as God in heaven. Jesus is not two different persons in two different locations. Peter must have recognized that Jesus was NOT just human in nature, but was God in person and nature too. That or Peter was clueless at the time

I agree that Jesus is not just human in nature...He is God made flesh. How is it possible for Jesus not to know all things ie: his second coming and for Peter to say to the Jesus that He knows all things and Jesus not rebuke Peter?

Prax, God is not a person. The self of God is much different that the self of a human being.

Bro-Larry 08-13-2007 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Felicity (Post 212072)
Jesus in His humanity didn't know all things.



The thread title uses the present tense "DOES"? Jesus in his present position, now, at the right hand of power and authority, does indeed, NOW, know all things.

I agree with you fully that, in His humanity, Jesus did not know all things.

Jesus, although He was God, could not operate here legally, as God. He had to have a body to exercise authority in the Earth. He had to lay aside His divinity, and operate as a man, born of a woman, (Lk 1:35) anointed of the Holy Ghost, (Matt 3:16) and He stood in the office of a prophet. (Lk 4:24) He also operated in all the gifts of the Spirit. That's how, at times, He knew things that others did not know.

God could not save mankind, as God, because He had given "dominion over all the Earth", to mankind. Therefore God the Father, had to make Himself a body, and "provide Himself a Lamb for a burnt offering:" (Gen 22:8). And"...therefore mine own arm brought salvation..."(Isa 63:5)

Jesus always called Himself "the son of man". The devils tried to call him the "Son of God", and He told them to shut up! He never did anything, during His earth life here, using His "Son of God" authority. He did all those signs wonders and miracles, as the "Son of man". (John 5:27)

In other words, He ministered on earth, exactly like we should today, After all, we are His body here on Earth.

philjones 08-13-2007 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by big-larry (Post 213960)
The thread title uses the present tense "DOES"? Jesus in his present position, now, at the right hand of power and authority, does indeed, NOW, know all things.

I agree with you fully that, in His humanity, Jesus did not know all things.

Jesus, although He was God, could not operate here legally, as God. He had to have a body to exercise authority in the Earth. He had to lay aside His divinity, and operate as a man, born of a woman, (Lk 1:35) anointed of the Holy Ghost, (Matt 3:16) and He stood in the office of a prophet. (Lk 4:24) He also operated in all the gifts of the Spirit. That's how, at times, He knew things that others did not know.

God could not save mankind, as God, because He had given "dominion over all the Earth", to mankind. Therefore God the Father, had to make Himself a body, and "provide Himself a Lamb for a burnt offering:" (Gen 22:8). And"...therefore mine own arm brought salvation..."(Isa 63:5)

Jesus always called Himself "the son of man". The devils tried to call him the "Son of God", and He told them to shut up! He never did anything, during His earth life here, using His "Son of God" authority. He did all those signs wonders and miracles, as the "Son of man". (John 5:27)

In other words, He ministered on earth, exactly like we should today, After all, we are His body here on Earth.

So, indwelt with ALL the FULLNESS of the the Godhead (ruling authority) bodily, the man Christ Jesus did not know all things? Hmmm?

I once asked if God, having all knowledge or knowing all things, could choose NOT TO KNOW some things and I was ridiculed and 'sniff sniff snuffle" abused by some of you folks.

i just don't know what to believe. :)

Brother Strange 08-13-2007 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Felicity (Post 212476)
Bro. Strange...

What ever makes you think that I think Jesus lost His humanity? :confused:

From this statement:

Quote:

Felicity


Jesus in His humanity didn't know all things.
We understand that he presently knows all things. We also know that presently he is a man according to scriptures.

So, I naturally assumed that you were saying that he lost his humanity since he presently knows all things.

Wrong assumption?

Bro-Larry 08-13-2007 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philjones (Post 214016)
So, indwelt with ALL the FULLNESS of the the Godhead (ruling authority) bodily, the man Christ Jesus did not know all things? Hmmm?

I once asked if God, having all knowledge or knowing all things, could choose NOT TO KNOW some things and I was ridiculed and 'sniff sniff snuffle" abused by some of you folks.

i just don't know what to believe. :)








Bro Phil,
I'm sure we are in pretty close agreement, Rom 1:20 and Closs 2:9 were written after Jesus ascended.

Praxeas 08-13-2007 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mizpeh (Post 213135)
I agree that Jesus is not just human in nature...He is God made flesh. How is it possible for Jesus not to know all things ie: his second coming and for Peter to say to the Jesus that He knows all things and Jesus not rebuke Peter?

I don't know how he does it, but we know that Jesus was truely Human and Truely God

Quote:

Prax, God is not a person. The self of God is much different that the self of a human being.
Yes, God IS a person. That or God is an animal or an inanimate object.

Second, I never said the self of God is the same as the self of a human being.

freeatlast 08-13-2007 07:42 PM

We can learn from the wedding traditions of the Hebrews.
Are we not the bride of Christ?

ANCIENT JEWISH WEDDING PRACTICE: PREPARING A PLACE
During the betrothal period, the bridegroom would prepare a wedding
chamber for the honeymoon. This chamber was typically built in the
bridegroom's father's house. The wedding chamber had to be a beautiful
place to bring the bride. The bride and groom were to spend seven days
there. The wedding chamber had to be built to the groom's father's
specifications. The young man could go for his bride only when his
father approved.
If the bridegroom was asked when the wedding was to be,
he might well say "it is not for me to know, only my father knows".

JESUS' FULFILLMENT: PREPARING A PLACE
Just as a bridegroom would have told his bride that he would go to
prepare a place for her, so Jesus told His disciples: "...In my Father's
house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am
going there to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place
for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may
be where I am. -- John 13:1-3.

In ancient Israel the bridegroom could get his bride only after his
father approved. Similarly, Jesus said: "No one knows about that day or
hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
Be on guard! Be alert ! You do not know when that time will come --


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:35 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2026, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.