Does God ONLY move at the Altar?
 

The asking others to come to the front is a Wesleyian philosophy. Yet, I have heard recently "you should come down to the altar to find God!"

Is God limited to only 10 feet in front of a pulpit, or can he fill "all the house where they are sitting?"

Do you have an altar at church, or only steps to the platform instead of an altar?

Is the altar dated to be abandoned?

I think the altar is a good thing however God can and does touch throughout the building, your pew can be your altar. But I think that public confession and recognition that you need help is good for you.

Finney developed the idea of the "anxiety bench." A small bench was placed up front where a "seeker" could kneel and pray anxiously for whatever need. In Finney's services the need was often salvation.

I'm kind of thrown off by some of the ways we do things today. If the song service is really good- people will start to line up at the altar for all types of prayer. This causes an "interuption" to the service at times and delays or even cancels the preaching. This can be either good or bad, depending on how your pastor is doing at the time. I've seen it where the song leader will actually try and get the preaching cancelled by giving repeated altar calls during the song service.

At other times, perhaps the "early altar call" sows faith into the hearts of visitors- kind of like they're being shown what behaviors are expected of them.

We all claim that we are "following the Spirit" but at the end of the day there is often little evidence that we actually did "follow." It seems more like guesswork until a couple of old ladies get mad and tell the pastor off. Then there's a "house cleaning" and whatever revival there was is now gone. That's the way we usually did things.

The ideal way is to of course have mature Christians meet with "seekers" and develop relationships whereby genuine trust is cultivated and the mature Christians end up caring very much about their "seekers."

Then when the old ladies rise up against the pastor again about the "new converts" and their "baggy jams," the mature Christians can support both pastor and the new saints.

Some of the greatest moments of fellowship I have had with God were no where near the alter...................

A report I would expect from your church!

I find it amazing in a 28x64 foot sanctuary with 6 rows of chairs, someone would say someone had to go down front to get a touch.

Pelthais, Thanks for thecorrection it was Finney not Wesleyian teaching.

Anyone else use or visit the altar?
I am not minimizing the altar, simply saying God CAN move all over the building.

:praying

I know a minister who had himself a "personal altar" built. It was just a small bench that he thought using in his personal prayer life would some how make it so much greater.............

I wasn't trying to quibble at all. Your statement just prompted a thought on my part. Finney himself was a great Wesleyan.

And you are correct about the altar. Sometimes our own habits make us so hidebound and inflexible that we miss the work going on in the several "little altars" of the heart scattered around the room.

You bring up a good point. It seems to me that in some churches, people are pushed to go to the altar. It appears that if you do not go down front, you are being rebellious. I think most of the time visitors are uncomfortable going to the altar. God can move just as easy between pews.

This is another potential slippery slope... next you will do away with the altar invitation and start just inviting them to meet Jesus right where they are! My My My!

You have 50-60 folks and let us say 8 of them are visitors. So you get the place rocking with a great song services. Folks are already weeping at the presence of God in the place. The preacher does a great job, and the weeping continues with conviction on 4 of the visitors. Someone invites one to the front, but three stay in their seats- hands raised and weeping to God.

Do you interrupt their praying asking them to pray in their seat, or do you say they have to come to the front?

BOOMM,

My post was in jest. I apologize as I know that this is a serious topic. I am of the opinion that men/women should find God no matter where they are when the Holy Ghost moves upon them, convicting their hearts and urging them to repent!

That said, I have seen the Spirit move on folks who were glued to their pew with the proverbial white knuckled hands clutching the pew in front of them yet they would not move nor would they pray. Then, for some reason, when they would finally release their death's grip on the pew in front of them and step out into the aisle to start that move to the "altar area" (not many mourner's benches left these days), something would break inside them and the tears of Godly sorrow would begin to flow. This would be the value and benefit of the public confession of need that Bro. Epley spoke of.

I think we simply need to continue to exercise the leading and guiding of the Holy Ghost where eternal destinies are concerned. There are memories I have of God moving upon me in the "altar area" that I am not sure I would have received had I remained in the pew. There are other memories I have of God blessing me between the pews as I worshipped. It is really a God thing anyway and we should just do what ever is necessary to submit to His will and leading and guiding.

Bro Phil,

No apology needed.

TF Tenney stated "All Direction Comes From The Altar" in one sermon.

Some churches apparently have lost direction- I am curious if we still have an altar in 20th Century Apostolic Pentecost. I was eager after hearing some of the Azusa Celebration preaching to see how other church leaders ended the service. They closed the Bible, simply walked away and left 4000 people hanging.

Not like the bawl your eyes out, then jump and shout joy that seems to be the forgotten norm in our churches.

We have sadly also lost most Altar Workers.
:praying

Everytime I have ever had a great touch from God it has always been in my pew. I rarely make it to the alter considering I have 2 kids to tow along, it is easier to just stay in my seat and pray where they can sit or lay in the pew. I hate it that the "church" makes you feel pressured to go to the alter to get your blessings because then I am sitting in my pew feeling like I am doing something wrong because I am not in the alter praying but at my pew instead. But God always lets me know he is there!

Surely no one truly believes that God only moves at the altar? BUT...there is something to be said for making your way to an elder for prayer...for healing or whatever. Some people find it helpful for others to pray with them, or around them; others prefer to pray alone, even in a public setting...so...I say whatever works for you. :-)

I do believe that some people resist going to the altar because they are also resisting God, and perhaps going down and kneeling at the altar is a sign of them letting go of that resistance, but they could certainly submit to him just as well in their pew. Some folks also resist being prayed for by the pastor or elders for the same reason...because they want to stay the way they are, and they are resisting the move of God.

My mother received the Holy Ghost at home, by herself. So did my husband. Both of them were told by overzealous altar workers that they had received the Holy Ghost (when they had not), and since they were too embarrassed to be contradictory, they just approached God privately, and He certainly didn't need a physical church altar to respond.

However, EVERY person needs an "altar"...that is...a place and time to pray and submit to God on a daily basis. :)

I miss good old alter calls. I have had some good times in God and my church family praying, crying and praising God.

It's not place, it's the God in the place.

Sadly bad altar workers have made people hesitate to approach the altar at all.

It's very sensitive work. If you say anything that is not in the direction God is taking that person it can be a huge distraction and hindrance.

Last night, I was to the side in the front next to the drums. Very personal time with God. I don't always need or want someone to pray with me. Sometimes it's just way too personal.

I hope you understand what I am saying.

My husband was very sensitive last night. He could see that our daughter needed him. He held her and let her cry. We just need to be sensitive.

Where is the altar?

Why is there no old fashion altar calls instead of inviting all to come?

Why are the new churches being built without altars?

Boom these are things I have thought of this week as well.

Started to start a similiar thread last week.

Concerning altar workers.......

I was talking to one of the ladies in our church yesterday morning who has a real touch of God and anointing on her. In fact she and her husband are involved in ministry and are often gone ministering and singing. Very beautiful and talented lady/couple.

I've felt impressed at different times to encourage her that if she feels to go to the altar to work, pray with and minister to people there she needs to know she has the liberty to do that.

Yesterday morning she came to speak with me and so I brought it up and I was so glad I did because she told me that at times she has felt to do that but didn't know if it would be appropriate --- that perhaps we had certain people appointed or do that. I told her that I was giving her the liberty and freedom and that I was certain my husband would have no problem it.

Both she and her husband love to work with people so we'll now have two more altar workers - highly qualified I might add. :thumbsup

i believe the altar is good, and i go regularly just to be there, but god is every where and you can get the holy ghost any where, and touch him anywhere, dt:hypercoffee

I do not have the strenght right now to do the kind of altar work that I used to do.

I have always loved working the altars. Some of my greatest blessing was rejoicing with someone God was restoring. :)

Sad but true. It's a whole lot of work sometimes to work those altars and I happen to love the job! :) As long as their is breath in my body and strength to be at church....I will be in that altar with anyone who needs my help. God bless! :)

Amen Coop!

Of course God can minister to people any place. Doesn't have to be at the altar. Going to the altar signifies thirst, desire, hunger, and need to me. So people go there to pray for that reason.

But we can be ministered to any place that we reach out to God.

And that is the thing, Esther. When you are in tune with God for that person and are able to led them closer to God, receive deliverance, etc., it's an awesome thing to be that "instrument of peace".

The beauty, IMO, is that person praying and you guiding them, feels as though God stopped the whole world for them that very night/day. I love that!

Some people need someone to help them. Others think they do, but really God wants them to pray and fight for themselves. That is why we need to be sensitive.

I can remember when I was much younger - in my teens - praying around the altar or in the prayer room and my pastor's wife or pastor would come around and just lay their hand on my head or back or whatever and pray a short prayer and then just moved on. I liked that because you knew that they cared about you but they didn't stay there forever and totally distract you from receiving from God or interrupt what God was doing or what was happening between you and God at that time and place.

What I DON'T like is when people feel they have to hang on and hang on and hang on to you and go on forever when you're just wanting to spend time alone with the Lord.

You don't want to be rude of course but you feel like saying ... "Will you PLEASE just move on and leave me alone?!!! Thank you very much!!" :ranting

LOL! :D

So I try and be sensitive. God is the One who does the ministering. Sometimes He ministers through people speaking a word of encouragement or word of knowledge or wisdom or whatever, and that's fine!

But you need to use some commonsense and wisdom and know what's appropriate when.

And what about when you're in travailing or intercessory prayer and people think you're burdened because of discouragement or something! And again,they come along and stay and stay and stay and try to pray you through! Arrgghhh! LOL!! :toofunny

The problem is we don't have enough of that sort of thing {travail and intercessory prayer) happening in churches anymore for people to know that's what's going on. Sad, it is.

We could learn much from all the scripturall references to altar workers.

We see so many examples in scripture of people praying other folks thru.

Could some one post those scriptures here....that would be helpful.

So, so very true!!!

That is sad, but I'm afraid what's even sadder is we don't have this happening BEFORE the altar service at home either.

Mega churches do away with altars, and now have buildings suited to drama and watching movies. I am not at church for a comfortable chair- I am there to get an experience with God.!!!

Esther, do we invite "all to come" or do we agree "you are lost if you are too far in the back."

:poloroid

Excellent point, Renda!!

When I was a new convert I attended a church where there were about three or four women always up at the altar during the song service to get prayed for. Crying, crying.

I didn't really think anything of it. Sometimes they would come and get me and I would go and get prayed for too.

I remember one occasion when one of the women came to my pew to take me to the altar. I told her I didn't need to go because I had laid my burdens down in the prayer room before the service.

I found out later that they hardly ever prayed at home and hence why they were always at the altar. :D

We need to stop by the prayer room first! Whether it is at church or our home. Preferably both! I can't get into the service unless I've been in the prayer room. It doesn't even matter if I've prayed at home. I guess it's just the collective worship/prayer and possibly breaking strongholds in other's lives before the service.

We have some powerful prayer meetings in our prayer room before service.

Last Sunday was red hot! I just wish we could take what's happening there out into the sanctuary. Perrhaps one of these Sundays it will happen. No perhaps about it. It will happen. :thumbsup

I'm sorry for being dense but I'm not sure what you are saying here???

I've seen it happen and it's awesome! Our senior high SS class broke out into deep, deep prayer and interceding and we entered the morning worship feeling we were in the thorn room - - it was electric and contagious - - one of the most intense services I have ever been in without a single person saying a word.

There were people laying face first on the floor - - I believe that was the most saturated spirit filled place I've ever been in. We experienced a different level that day!

I love altar services and don't ever want to do away with them. Our Sunday morning altar services are always standing, not kneeling, but that's just because most of these people aren't from a "churched" background, and they just come up and pray standing up, which I really like anyway.

Our Wed. night times around the altars are much more intense, since we have "Encounter Services" on Wed. nights and more of a lingering powerful time in the Lord.

People are so hungry for the power and presence of God! When you have a service like that - one where the power and presence of God is on display so powerfully - people talk about it for days!! They get a whole lot more excited about that than any "event" or program that takes place.

I get MOST excited when I see new people coming to God and then see them growing in their walk with God.

I heard the comment.

"Some folks are not saved, they don't even know how to come to the altar!"

Uhhhhh, by this reasoning, those in the back row are lost?

Is the soundman hopelessly lost also since he is in the back corner?!?

I wonder if the ushers are beyond all hope.

:sad

I've heard that quite a bit.

The statement that the person making their way to an altar signifies their need and hunger is just plain dumb...ain't we the ones always saying that God knows the thoughts, intents???? I don't have to signal anything to HIM, get HIM out of your small minded boxes. The only ones getting the signal are those present in the sanctuary. You can make the best decision of your life right in your pew, the soundroom, the bathroom, tha balcony, prayer room...need I go on?? No

The only reason we do this practice is to bring a cohesiveness to our church service endings...it makes it an easy transition...and it is ALL tradition. Don't get me wrong, I love time in an altar and as a musician, I feel I should be there more often then not as to be plugged into the direction of my Pastor. But really folks, its just another tradition, it ain't holy, just like your pipe organs, hymnbooks, or my guitar.

How was it a dumb statement? I meant it exactly as you say here - that it signifies to people a person's hunger, need, desire, what have you.

Of course God knows -- and you're right -- He can meet us and deal with us anywhere.