Oneness Pentecostals And British Israelism ?
 

If my understanding is correct ,there have been small factions of Oneness Pentecostals who have embraced the British Israel doctrine.
I understand the late Brother Gordon Magee believed this doctrine ?
What other oneness pentecostals have believed this doctrine ?

Rick Strawcutter believes a version of Identity (at least at one time)

I have no reason to believe OP embrace this any more than other groups have/do.

There was a former UPC pastor, now independent, in my area who taught this. He didn't really have a large following. I remember there being some openness to the idea among a few - but no real traction. The teaching has been debunked both scripturally and historically with such persuasiveness over the years.

I was just wondering ,I understand Elder Strange knows of some who have embraced this.

It is a way out doctrine to me ,alot of folks who are historicist in their eschatology seem to teach this.

The group Gordon Magee was a part of in Ireland "The Church of God of Ireland" a Oneness group was a British Isreal group. Bro. Magee taught the same. I am thinking Charles Grisham's mother believed that also but I could be wrong? I think I remember Frank Munsey once saying that? Theodore Fitch taught it also.

Listen was brother Magee EW.Kidson's son in law ?

Yes he was.

I understand Charles Parham taught that Queen Victoria was a heir to David's throne or something like that ?

what is British Israelism? Is that like replacement theology with Britain instead of the church or does it just refer to the monarchy?

As important as Charles Fox Parham was to Pentecost in general he was not a Oneness.

DM, this explains it.
http://truthinhistory.org

Yes I know he was Trinity.

which article? are all of them related to this issue?

Not all of them are related to this issue.

This site explains this stuff.
http://1335.com

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind (Post 217220) what is British Israelism? Is that like replacement theology with Britain instead of the church or does it just refer to the monarchy?

In essence: the "10 Tribes" of the Northern Kingdom of Israel wandered from their Assyrian captivity through modern day Russia and Europe to become the "Anglo-Saxon" barbarian invaders of Roman era Britannia. So, modern Brits are in fact the blood descendants of Omri, Ahab, Jezebel and the like. For this reason, the British can claim a real inheritance to God's promises for a "restored" Israel. All of the prophecies of a future restoration were fulfilled when the British Empire stretched across the globe. It was at this time that "true Israel" was "blessing" the nations.

There are scriptural texts and historical coincidences that are called upon as "proof." Jacob had said that the tribe of Dan would leave a mark like a serpent across the globe. This is why, we are told, that you find so many place names with the word "Dan" in it. Places like DANmark and LonDAN (London - they really make that claim!).

Of course there is no explanation for how Hannah (or Anna) of Luke's Gospel could have found herself at Jerusalem in the 1st Century. According to Luke she was of the tribe of Naphtali and this tribe and its descendants should have been in Northern Europe at that time, not in Jerusalem.

Several other scriptures cannot be reconciled like in Chronicles where Ezekiel's prophecies of restoration are fulfilled, naming the return of the specific "lost" tribes. I've got a key set up in my old study Bible just for this topic. Let me know if you want better details, I can post when I get home.

interesting, sounds like mormon theology. Are the ten tribes really lost? what tribe do all the jews of Israel, Europe and America claim to be from? seems like the cohen/levi tribes are intact. all the rest of modern day jews surely can't be from the Aaronic line. They must be from the "lost ten".

I forgot brother Miller's first name but he is from Ireland. He was for a time an official (in the 90s) a UPCI official in Hazelwood. Once he and I were talking in a Restaurant upon which occasion I happened to ask him, recalling that he was from Ireland, if he believed the British Israel doctrine. With the rolling tongue and Irish accent he said that he believed it even down to the marrow of his bones.

I asked him if he were not a member of a very small minority that believed it. He said that I would be surprised. It left me wondering.

Many years ago, there were questions in my mind about that doctrine since I had read Thedore Fitch's book on the subject. I decided to do a study of my own from which I became convinced that it is error...certainly not an error that would cause one to be lost, but error none the less. Actually, the doctrine is racist in its fundamental beliefs. Ted Fitch was a racist in the truest sense of the word.

http://reluctant-messenger.com/HWA/U...tian/index.htm




You can read about a version of this doctrine at this link. This is the book written by Herbert W. Armstrong. A man with truly some of the strangest beliefs I have ever heard of in my life...........

I wasn't sure but I thought Ted Fitch taught that.
I don't remember reading it in any of his books but I think some book titles that I saw listed indicated that he believed that.

Herbert W. Armstrong taught that.
He taught that the word "British" came from "berith" or "brit" meaning "covenant" and "Ish" meaning man and therefore if you were British you were a man of the covenant. He used OT scriptures about the tribulation and applied them to the U.S. and Canada. Some who teach that doctrine believe that the lighter skinned or Nordic Europeans are the real Israelites and therefore God's covenant people and that the darker southern Europeans are mongrelized or mixed.

Are you sure GM believed this? Anyways, this is by far a doctrine held by more non Oneness Pentecostals. It's complete and utter garbage and is a pre-text to racism in my opinion

Saxon came from Issac etc etc...but of baloney

Too bad

He truly held some of the strangest beliefs I have ever heard...........

I had a grandfather that was into that. It was funny because he went to a Methodist church but received their literature in the mail regularly.

Yes, Saxon came from Isaac's son.

Herbert W. Armstrong taught that some of the Israelites (including Jeremiah I think) lugged a rock with them across Europe into England and that is the Stone of Scoone or Scone (don't remember how it's spelled) that British monarchs place their feet upon at their coronation.

Well, don't the Mormons teach that some of the lost tribes of Israel came to North America in submarines?

The Stone of Scone (pronounced /skuːn/, 'skoon'), also commonly known as the Stone of Destiny or the Coronation Stone (though "Stone of Destiny" sometimes refers to Lia Fáil) is a block of sandstone historically kept at the now-ruined abbey in Scone, near Perth, Scotland. It was used for centuries in the coronation of the monarchs of Scotland, the monarchs of England, and, more recently, British monarchs. Other names by which it has sometimes been known include Jacob's Pillow Stone and the Tanist Stone, and in Scottish Gaelic, "clach-na-cinneamhain", "clach Sgàin" and also "Lia(th) Fàil" [1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind (Post 217274) interesting, sounds like mormon theology. Are the ten tribes really lost? what tribe do all the jews of

Modern Judaism is generally broken into two groups (with many exceptions of course). The Sephardic or Spanish Jews are the descendants of the Jews from the old Islamic kingdoms of Andalusia or Spain. When the last of the Islamic kingdoms fell in 1492, the Jews were forced to leave their homes in Spain and settle in the Muslim lands of North Africa and the Middle East. Before settling in Spain, these were the Jews of the Diasporas of 70 and 133 AD.

The Ashkenazim or European Jews have been genetically linked to the Jewish migration from Italy to the Rhineland after the fall of the Roman Empire. Charlemagne invited the Roman Jews to move north to help spur the economic development of his newly conquered German territories. These people were largely pushed further and further east during the middle ages until they were largely in the Slavic lands where Hitler's Wehrmacht caught up to them.

All of these people were "Jews" or "Israelites" descending from the 12 tribes of antiquity. There were of course many Jews who "converted" (willingly or otherwise) and mixed their lives and children with those of the people of the nations around them.

A Chinese statistician recently estimated that 80% of all North Americans of European ancestry were descended from 2 historical figures: Charlemagne and (believe it or not) the Prophet Mohammed. Mohammed's descendants of the Umayyad dynasty of Spain intermarried with the royal houses of Castile and Leon, and through them with the rest of Europe. There are many Spanish American families in the Southwest U.S. who for some reason set up a Seder (Passover) table every Easter complete with the extra "Elijah cup." However, until recently they had no idea of its significance. These are the Conversarios - Jewish converts to Spanish Catholicism who had secretly retained some of their traditions.

The circumstances of the descendants of the "missing" 10 tribes probably involves similar complexity with lots of surprises. However, in the Inter-Testament time period, the "Jews" and "Israelites" believed that God was fulfilling Jeremiah 30 and Isaiah 11 literally in their midst. These were the “two sticks” of Ezekiel.

Interestingly, some Messianic groups believe that G-d is “calling” out the literal descendants of the “lost” tribes from the Gentiles. These are the goys who show up at Messianic services and “for some reason that can’t understand” want to convert to a more Jewish form of Christianity. At least one group believes the Holy Spirit is sifting out “unknown Jews” from the nations. Needless to say, I am some what skeptical about this, but then again, who knows? The basic truth that I embrace is that if you go far enough back, you'll find out that we're all genetically related - duh! What's more important however, is being "born again" into a family that transcends genetics. I believe that I share that faith and hope with Jew and Gentile alike.

The doctrine is racist at heart and anti-Semetic. The 'White" race is the chosen all others are inferior.

This sounds oddly familiar and yet completely opposite to some information I had read that many of those who tout themselves as Jews today actually have no blood ties to the descendants of Abraham whatsoever.

It is shown in the writings that they are European in ancestry and simply adopted the Jewish religion many years ago. They were of the Khazarian Empire.

England is Ephriam and the US is Manasseh. That was Armstrongs take I still have the Book "The United States and Great Britain in Prophecy."

Oneness Pentecostals And British Israelism ?
 

Romans 2:28,29 tells us who are the true jews.

Those that are Christ's are Abraham's children, according

to the promise. When the Seed (Jesus Christ) came and was

sown in the ground as a grain of wheat, now there is much

wheat, springing up from that one "Seed".

Blessings,

Falla39

Yes sir... of course I was speaking of those who claim some direct blood lineage to Abraham but more important than any of that is what was told to the Galations.

Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

The promise that was made was never made to people of a specific blood line except that it was made to the ONE seed Jesus Christ who would come to us through that bloodline.

The promises made to Abraham were made to Christ and those who would be joint heirs with Him.

So true... so important.

God loves all people the same ,no race is superior,or inferior to others.
In Christ we all become one ,as the middle wall of partition has been broken down , there is no Jewish Or Gentile church only The Church,The Body Of Christ.

Indeed...

Oneness Pentecostals And British Israelism ?
 

Amen, Bro. Scott,

No one would ever convince me that my late father and mother loved

anyone of we eleven children more than the other. I was very close to

my dad as I was church secretary from the beginning of the work for God

they began in 1958. HE loved us all the same. When our parents crossed

over to the other side, they had prepared a will, equally leaving each of

us the same. There was to be no partially whatsoever. God is not partial

to His Children either. The Bible says that the Lord knoweth those that

are HIS, and let everyone who nameth the name of Christ depart from

iniquity (sin). God is no respector of persons. Jesus said His sheep hear

His Voice and they follow Him. If there are those who are not hearing His

Voice and following Him, I would surely want to be listening real closely.

An old chorus says:

I'll be somewhere listening, I'll be somewhere listening,
I'll be somewhere listening for my name. I'll be somewhere
listening, I'll be somewhere listening. I'll be somewhere
listening for my name.

I.
If my heart is right, when He calls me, if my heart is right,
I will hear. If my heart is right, when He calls me. I'll be
somewhere listening for my name.

Blessings,

Falla39

Bro,
Was his name Mervyn?
Nina

Yep, which is absurd when you think of it....America, as it is today, started with white people that came from the UK...logically then that would make America just Ephraim expanded