Firearms Refresher Course
 

"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not."

~ Thomas Jefferson

(This is why Ted Kennedy, Nancy Pelosi and Hillary Clinton want gun control so badly! )

FIREARMS REFRESHER COURSE

1. An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject.

2. A gun in the hand is better than a cop on the phone.

3. Colt: The original point and click interface.

4. Gun control is not about guns; it's about control.

5. If guns are outlawed, can we use swords?

6. If guns cause crime, then pencils cause misspelled words.

7. Free men do not ask permission to bear arms.

8. If you don't know your rights, you don't have any.

9. Those who trade liberty for security have neither.

10. The United States Constitution (c)1791. All Rights Reserved.

11. What part of "shall not be infringed" do you not understand?

12. The Second Amendment is in place in case the politicians ignore the others.

13. 64,999,987 firearms owners killed no one yesterday.

14. Guns only have two real enemies; rust and politicians.

15. Know guns, know peace, know safety. No guns, no peace, no safety.

16. You don't shoot to kill; you shoot to stay alive.

17. 911: Government sponsored Dial-a-Prayer.

18. Assault is a behavior, not a device.

19. Criminals love gun control; it makes their jobs safer.

20. If guns cause crime, then matches cause arson.

21. Only a government that is afraid of its citizens tries to control them.

22. You have only the rights you are willing to fight for.

23. Enforce the gun control laws we ALREADY have; don't make more; we already have too many.

24. When you remove the people's right to bear arms, you create slaves.

25. The American Revolution would never have happened with gun control.

It's a nice thought . . .
 

It's a nice thought, but today's 2nd amendment movement is itself watered down and of no effect to the true goals of the 2nd amendment.

The 2nd amendment is not about self-defense against robbers, rapists, and "disgruntled former employees." (How can I be disgruntled? I never felt gruntled to begin with! ) It's about the citizenry's ability to overthrow the military arm of a government system turned tyrannical. In the 1700s, the state of the art of war was long muskets, bayonets, and cannons. Private citizens could own the same armament that governments possessed. It is not so today.

The hunting, sport shooting, and self defense weapons available to the American public would be no match for the armament of our military and police. Innovations in armor, munitions, and targeting systems in use by the military and police makes our duck guns and anti-mugger revolvers as obsolete as longbows and broadswords.

It is pure fantasy that a town's worth of civic-minded armed men would last more than a few weeks against the federales. The citizens don't have access to machine guns, grenades, and chemical weapons, nor are they (generally) well-organized or well-trained.

It is usually forgotten by most, even before they don their rose-colored glasses to look nostalgically at America's founding struggle, that the American revolution would have been thoroughly a rout if it were not for aid from foreign governments.

Rip those glasses off your face, stare the globalism movement right in the eye, and discern the unlikelihood that a small armed American resistance could form relations with, and receive aid from, another nation.

Read them all... every one true.

Makes one wonder how Jesus and His apostles could do what they did without one.... :rolleyes2:dunno:uhoh

Which one of those things listed had anything to do with what Jesus and His apostles did?

We have an American flag in our front yard, a lighted cross on our roof and guns in the house....both my husband and I have carry permits and most of the people I know do also....

EXACTLY!! So why is this on an Apostolic forum?? Think about what YOU asked.... :sos

cool stuff have that laying on my desk right now, lol, dt :hypercoffee

For the same reason messy house threads are on here?

For the same reason people start threads about the Space Shuttle being in trouble?

Because Apostolics are a people of widely varying interests and this is a fellowship forum where we can openly discuss our widely varying interests?

Now, I do not believe you really think these examples are anywhere similar. :nah A thread supporting arms designed to shoot another human made in God's image is much different then talking about the above subjects. Surely you can see the vast difference in these. :rolleyes2

Now, if what we do to the “least of these” (See Matt 25:40, 45) is one in the same as doing it to Jesus, when is shooting another human ever acceptable for a Christian? If the person being shot "deserved it," would this not imply that he is a sinner? Unless you adhere to “once saved always saved,” or to the “doctrine of inclusion,” wouldn't the trigger then sentence the guilty party to an eternal hell? Who here that is in love with Jesus and His creation would want that to be on their conscience? Aren’t we called to give our life for another life as did Jesus? And for whom did He die; for sinners. Think about it. This is why we never find an account of the Apostles physically fighting for their own skin. Peter used a sword one time. But this was BEFORE his conversion. After, it was prayer that set him free (See Acts 12).

This whole issue comes down to one’s level of faith. Read it here:

Romans 12:17-21 Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men. (18) If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men. (19) Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. (20) Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. (21) Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

I think Paul knew what is best…. :hmmm

L&F I take it you don't believe in protecting your family?

Did the fathers during Saul of Tarsus’ persecution believe it protecting their families? How did those fathers protect their families from that danger? :hmmm

Just show me one place where Jesus or His apostles said it is okay for a Christian to physically retaliate.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh... Now............ That isn't a fair statement in the least.

Actually THAT is ALWAYS the question asked about this subject. This is why this issue always comes down to one's personal faith in Jesus Christ. To believe that Jesus can take care of our sustenance needs, our health needs, our salvation needs, but not our protection needs proposes Jesus has less than ALL power in heaven and IN EARTH.

Yes sir (ma'am... whichever. :) )

I understand your point and agree with you... really.


When I read the list... I did not think of them on the level of self defense etc... I saw them on the level of a right to have arms. We have guns and love to shoot them at rifle ranges and in hunting.

I would never want to use a gun against another human being.

Anyone breaking into my house to steal, kill and destroy will be loved by me, truly loved by me. But when he breaks in, my love for him will be so great as to let him look down the barrell of anyone of my 14 or 15 guns, as I pray for his soul.

Rest assured, he will be stopped. And that will be with love and with no violence. Protection by whatever means possible is not violence. Violence is what a perpetuator inflicts upon a victim.

Pacificism is probably the least charitable thing that can be demonstrated. It demonstrates no trust in the Lord to protect, as he is well able to protect with or without my gun. There are some times that a grain of common sense is needed.

Byh the same token, God is also able to supply all my needs according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus. But I am not going to sit home in my chair and wait on God to come walking in with a sack of grocries to supply those needs. If I don't have sense enough to go plant a garden or do whatever is neccessary to feed my family, I deserve to starve to death.

On the same level, if a woman is stupid enough to marry a man that is not willing to protect her, I hardly know what to tell her to do except do more praying than she has ever done. Per chance that God will have mercy on her and her family and send an angel to physically fight for her when she and her family is under attack by a theif or a murderer. God has done it before just as sure as he has also sent an angel with a basket of food to a needy family.

But, a little common sense is in order.

This post is NOT about hunting Bambi; it is blatantly about self-defense against another human soul. Look at some of these:

How can any of these be supported with the Bible? And remember how this thread started:

Thomas Jefferson did not believe that the entire Bible was God’s Word. He began cutting and pasting his own version long before the Jesus Seminar did. And THIS is the kind of reasoning we use to keep guns for our own safety? Again, this is ALL about one’s faith in Jesus Christ!!

Common sense? Is that scriptural? (TIC)

Would Jesus advise us to buy something to protect ourselves with? Yes.....didn't he tell His disciples to go buy swords? I know he told Peter to put up his sword, didn't tell him to get rid of it now did he? I also know that the Lord said He that lives by the sword shall perish by sword......I don't live by the sword, I live through Jesus, but I do know how to protect the family God has blessed me with. Didn't Jesus also say something about the man of the house watching for the thief, to stop him?

Brother Strange,

You truly enjoy leaning to your own understanding, ehh? :killinme

I noticed you chose the sustenance question, but what do YOU do that adds to you being saved or healed that Jesus did not already do or is doing for you? BIG DIFFERENCE huh?

Let me ask you the same thing as I did a few posts ago:

What did the fathers during Saul of Tarsus’ persecution do to protect their families? Where these men bad husbands? :hmmm

Just show me one place where Jesus or His apostles said it is okay for a Christian to physically retaliate.

I appreciate your opinion, but I think Jesus' is always preferred. :winkgrin

Want to see an Apostolic man protecting his family?

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...t_Prayer_b.jpg

Yep, that man is packing weapons alright. Just like those the Bible describes: "For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God..." (2 Corinthians 10:4)

All the romans had was a CROSS!

FYI this has been discussed and polled already here at AFF, in a thread titled 'Would you pull the trigger.'

What we took away from that thread, in essence, is the concept that a person has already chosen hell for themselves if they commence an assault where they are threatening another person with deadly force.

My application of Christianity to the topic of self defense is that, after a lethal defensive incident, gun-toting Christians are to pray for the family of their dearly-departed assailant in their time of 'loss.'

Too much circular reasoning here to make any sense of what Jesus may have or may not have said.

Why not give me one scripture that says that it is ok for a man to sit at home and not plant a garden while expecting God to provide for the family.

The scriptures teach us to not recompence evil for evil. But it must be know that when my family is attacked and I chose to defend my family by whatever means at my disposal, it is an act of love and charity. I will certainly pray for the family of the dearly departed loved one if the man chooses such a course in his life. I pray that he will reconsider his evil deed before he is called upon tol pay the price for it.

Interesting, can you show us where Jesus and the Apostles taught what you are presenting in the above statement?

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

Lord love you Brother Strange, can you show where Jesus said that love and charity meant to pop a cap off into a criminal's forehead? :)

really tough for him to have said that bro, there were no guns then, brave new world out there, dt:hypercoffee

Where did He say to chop them to pieces with the sword? :D

No sir...

Not in the forehead.

Where does it say to sit home and let the Lord provide?

You all keep asking these circular questions that go nowhere.

The Bloody Theatre, or Martyrs' Mirror, of the Defenceless Christians : who suffered and were put to death for the testimony of Jesus, their Savior, from the time of Christ until the year A.D. 1660

http://www.homecomers.org/mirror/

L&F good post, the accusation that Nero made against the Christians were that they were violent and had started the fire that destroyed the city of Rome. Nero made the Christians out to be political enemies of the Roman Empire. Nero accusation was that these Christians were hostile and would use force to gain a kingdom.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

Arm or leg?? then explain to him the error of his ways... convert him.. and pray for his healing???

LOL...

Of course, he would be stopped...and that for certain. He would not harm my wife, children, grandchildren.

I would then doctor his wounds. Hopefully he will not die. I will also give him the only means of salvation. I would offer to baptize him in the name of Jesus too.

All of that and more while I am waiting on the police and the ambulance to come take him away. Hopefully, he would be fully converted from his wayward path before he left my home.

Lord bless you Elder, what would you then do with the weapon once you pulled it on the criminal?

If more than one attacker gained entrance to your home the odds would become greater in their behalf in overpowering the man (or woman) with the weapon? I love you and want to understand what would you do once the weapon is introduced into the altercation?

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

Where does it say in the New Testament to retaliate against an attacker is the better question? Thank you Elder. :)

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

I do not think that the writings of the N.T. are absurd and beyond reason. I believe entirely in the New Testament and the doctrine of Charity. Defense of one's home and loved ones are entirely within the scope of Christian Charity.

Where does it say for a householder NOT to protect his family?

Where does it say for a householder NOT to plant a garden, but to show faith in the Lord his provider by NOT planting and harvesting?

It must be known that I believe that Jesus would have me to love my enemy, pray for them that despitefully uses me, do good to them that would do me evil.

Stopping a criminal in his tracts that is intent on doing my family harm can have a life altering affect upon him, both physically and spiritually too. I will pray for him, I will render good for evil and I will also show my love for him too. Meanwhile, the dude is NOT going to harm my family.

brother strange my esteemed brother, i am reminded of a friend who shall remain nameless who invited me to his house for new years 2000, he did not own a gun but requested i have mine with me, this is the kind of mentality that i run into all the time, and if i or anyone waits until it is to late to be prepared to defend my family then it is just that, to late, love you brother, dt:hypercoffee:sos

Then are you saying that you would be able to teach your position by using the New Testament? I'm not asking you where it doesn't say something I'm asking you to tell me where it does say you can use deadly force to protect yourself and family.

Lord bless you Elder and protect your family.

In Jesus Name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

If you cannot see the difference between an isolated incident of armed assault, robbery, home intrusion, or rape, and systematic persecution of an ethnic or religious minority . . .

. . . then I cannot help you understand what I wrote earlier.

Forget about the guns and knives . . . if somebody attacks my daughter I will kill them with my bare hands if nothing of advantage is within reach. I'll worry about all the legal and religious implications later. It looks like you've got a woman and a couple of brats yourself. You would do well to make up your mind ahead of time to fight to the death and take a few hits without stopping if ever you are jumped by thugs. Your wife and children would probably like to know that Daddy won't need to deliberate and divinate if they ever need deliverance.

All the pious platitudes in the world won't change the fact that in your hour of need you'd rather be in my company than with your fellow conscientious objectors.

Have a great day, and be careful what all you do in Jesus' name.

Matthew 18:6
But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

1 Timothy 5:8
But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

very wellput my brother, dt:highfive