What's up with NT only, gentle Jesus thinking?
 

Why do some attempt to discount the OT in deciding what is and isn't appropriate behavior for Christians living by grace?

How is such a teaching justified? The spiritual principles in the OT and in the law are still valid, as God does not change.

How does one persuade such a thinker of the validity of OT principles, or even of simple common sense things that are only hinted at in the bible, if they react by running straight to ground and begin to ask things such as whether you wear blended fiber clothing?

What is the arbiter of things disallowed in the OT now allowed, and things allowed in the OT now disallowed?

How does a sincere and moderate seeker of truth explain the relevance of the OT to the all-or-nothing crowd?

Carl

One must read the OT. in order to understand the NT.Because the NT. church had no NT.We must see how the early church understood the OT. in light of the new covenant.

You will find in the Gospels that Jesus quoted the Old Testament many times.

"All Scripture is given by inspiration of God..."

Not just the NT.

Those who want to throw out silly questions like the blended fiber clothing line reveal their lack of good Biblical understanding.

Do we throw out the 10 Commandments?

The wisdom of Poverbs?

The comfort of Psalm 23?

The handwriting of ordinances, the ceremonial observances, the animal scarifices, all these were nailed to the Cross.

But things in the Old Testament that reflect God's unchanging moral nature are still binding today.

Indeed. The civil law was nailed to the cross...that is the handwriting of ordinances that were against us. But God's moral rectitude has not nor will it change...ever...regardless of dispensation. He does however, reveal his commandments in a greater light than then.

There were only ten words, but David, as a prophet saw so much in those ten words that he said that he meditated upon them day and night. Paul saw so much in them that he called them "the spiritual law" because there are far more than ten "thou shalt and shalt nots."

What God saw as morally right for human conduct and what he saw that was morally wrong for human conduct has never changed for God does NOT change. People change as does dispensations and so does depth of understand, but God is IMMUTABLE.

The New Testament saints did not have Matthew, Mark, Luke and John together with the book of Acts. They had the scriptures to make one WISE. They found the will of God in the scriptures even while Paul was still a Jewish Zealot.

If youi can find the will of God according to a principle in the Old Testament, you can be certain that will has NOT changed. What has changed, God has opened up a new and a living way, a new covenant with man, wile the old covenant that he had with Israel has passed away. It is no longer binding.

Is it silly to ask whether killing Uzzah for touching the ark reflects God's unchanging moral nature? Does His killing of children and infants to demonstrate his power say anything about His everlasting mercies?

My lack of good Biblical understanding is showing, yet again! Enlighten me!

The irony though is that they themselves rarely are meek and humble in how they deal with those that don't believe like they do about Jesus...ignoring the very characteristic they claim their master has...

I think, as others have stated, that there are moral principles to be gleaned from the OT. But the old covenant was a school master to bring us to Christ. It was never meant to be the finished product. We are under a new covenant. One writer calls it a new and living way that we are able to enter in to the holiest of all by. We do not throw out the old as meaningless, but we should be able to look back through spiritual eye's and see the principles and precepts that are present there, and apply them by faith and obedience to our lives.

The New Testament is to me simply the completion of the Old Testament. In it we find the revealing and unveiling of the mysteries of God that were hidden in the OT. But ALL scripture is given for instruction, and doctrine, and correction, and reproof.

God has a much bigger picture, physical life in this world is not as important to Him as it is to mankind, He is working His ultimate purpose.

"All Scripture is given by inspiration of God..." This includes the Old Testament which is a shadow of things that were revealed to us in the NT.

I love the OT and read it lots. One of my favorite books is Isaiah. I love Job, Psalms, Proverbs, Judges, etc., etc. Can't imagine a Bible without the OT.

I think it's fairly easy to explain why a lot of the laws (not talking about the moral law of course) written in the OT are no longer applicable today.

What is the "fairly easy" guideline? Define the line where the scimitar dividing relevant from irrelevant lands. Please.

The first thing that ought to be understood Brother Carl is the divine nature of God.He is the same yesterday,today and forever.If He hated it in the OT
I promise He still hates it today.The soft effeminate Jesus also turned over tables in the temple and bore our iniquities and the bible says He opened not his mouth.He also has some real hard things to say in the NT that it takes the Holy Ghost to obey.It was easy in the OT because no flesh could please God but in the NT we have the greater miricle of the Holy Ghost living inside of us and to whom much is given much is required.We now have to listen to the Rabbi within and its a much greater judgement that begins at the house of God.

Carl,

I believe Acts chapter fifteen deals with this very question very clearly, this discourse is in response to Jewish believers trying to force the Gentile believers to comply with all the OT:

24 “We understand that some men from here have troubled you and upset you with their teaching, but we did not send them! 25 So we decided, having come to complete agreement, to send you official representatives, along with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26 who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 We are sending Judas and Silas to confirm what we have decided concerning your question.
28 “For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay no greater burden on you than these few requirements: 29 You must abstain from eating food offered to idols, from consuming blood or the meat of strangled animals, and from sexual immorality. If you do this, you will do well. Farewell. (NLT)

Would to God that current day ministry to be so clear and so succinct. :hypercoffee

Well this deals with the minutia of mosaic law.

NT-only types not only wish to dispense with mosaic law, but with the principles and nature of God from the OT. Are we still to honor our father and mother? That's OT. Is a lazy man still to reap sparingly, and a fool to reap the whirlwind? That's OT.

See, there is also the natural law that is consistent between dispensations. The principles of physics and chemistry remain the same. Fire is still hot and floods still drown people. People that overeat and don't exercise become fat. People still reap what they sow, in every natural and spiritual context.

A dog still returns to his vomit.

A drunkard redeemed is still tempted by his wine.

God is still willing for the enemies of His nation to be slain, although he gives all men space to repent and find grace.

I believe the NT picks up most of the principles that you refer to, however I have no problem using the OT as the NT directs. That would be as examples of how God deals with mankind.

We are required to "rightly divide" the word of truth, the letter kills the Spirit makes alive.

I believe that the OT is relevant. However, the Spirit of Jesus is often much easier to swallow than some things in the OT. An adulteress being pardoned with love rather than stoned and things like that. I much prefer mercy to judgment.

Yes, that is apparently so, I have to agree. So, then what do we mean when we say things like "God is merciful" or "God is good"? We talk about God's everlasting mercy, but if it would not be possible (since we excuse literally anything he does) to disprove that assertion if it were actually false, then it is utterly meaningless. What could God possibly do to show that he actually isn't merciful or good (just supposing that were the case)? Kill someone for disobeying? Oops. It's been done. Even in the new covenant. Kill innocent children? Done. Command his followers to rape women, or take young virgins as slaves after killing their families, or slash pregnant women? Done.

If I made up a story of God performing some outrageous atrocity, you'd want my head on a platter. (OK, now I'm addressing the plural "you", or hypothetical "you", not necessarily you, CJ!) But you'd better look it up first to see if it just may be in the Bible. It might be hard to tell it apart from the real thing.

I have a seriously hard time swallowing some of that OT stuff. Sometimes I wonder just how much God had to do with some of that stuff. It seems often diametrically opposed to the Spirit of Jesus when He came. I think that is why people love the NT.

Exactly!