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Homosexuality Or Legalism--Which Is Worse?
On another thread, tv1a and RandyWayne are promoting the idea that legalism is worse and more difficult to overcome than homosexuality.
What say ye? |
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I posted that I thought it was quite a stretch to prefer homosexuality over legalism.
This was RW's response, and my rebuttal. Originally Posted by RandyWayne Quote:
You will find nowhere in the Gospels where He spent any time working on a Saducee. Homosexuality is a far bigger problem to deal with than legalism. At least with a legalist, you have a person who values the Word of God and can be taught. Generally speaking, homosexuals totally deny the authority of God or His Word. If this is a common conception--that homosexuality is preferable to legalism--then the movement is in worse shape than I thought. That is a sick and totally twisted perception. |
I do question if legalists can be taught. Without going into detail, I've observed the best legalists make the best homosexuals. I shouldl go through the similarities between homosexuality and legalism, but I don't want to be accused of calling all legalists homosexual.
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My Jesus help us...
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Again, speak truths about something, but then attach that title concerning that truth to people who do not fit the description, and then you can paint them in a bad line...guilty by association.
I'm sorry. I don't agree with Steve Epley on everything, but I do not see Steve Epley as legalistic. The same goes for Bros. Boyd, Groce, White, etc. Those of you who TRULY believe them to be legalistic DON'T KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT THEM OR WHERE THEY STAND, HOW THEY VIEW THINGS. You need to listen rather than label. |
I really think the question is a little far out. The wording should be changed or something. I feel grieved in my spirit for some reason.
And I am off to church... |
The righteous are scarcely saved.
The legalists are preferable, for there is a chance that at least some of them will not be lost. None will make heaven from a stool in a gay bar. |
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I regret that you are grieved by this thread. I was grieved when the assertion was made that "legalists," whatever they are, are worse off than homosexuals. I wanted to have some serious discussion of the concept that was being espoused. Please pardon if I was offensive in wording this thread. That was not my intention. |
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I can also see the hideous, soul-crushing effects of legalism as well. Jesus seemed to address the issue of legalism on a fairly regular basis. It was a huge issue in His day. The Pharisees were using legalism as a tool to keep people away from right relationship with God. In this way legalism was perversion of another stripe. There are similarities and I, for one, would not want to be in a position to defend either sin. Both sins lead to separation from God. The only real difference I see is that homosexuality is a personal choice that primarily affects the consenting parties while legalism can affect entire groups of innocent individuals whose only desire is to attain close proximity to Jesus. |
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I too agree that the question is a little far out in that it is a bit like asking "Would you rather drink a nice big gulp of sewage from house A? Or a tiny little sip from house B?" We're basically asking whether a BIG gulp is worse then a small sip and what constitutes what.
But going to the meat of the question, I'll stipulate that the "BIG gulp" is better represented by legalism. BOTH sins tend to be of a blinding nature and thus very hard for the sinner to see what they are doing is wrong..... |
Who was worse Hitler or Stalin? They were both wrong. As homosexuality and legalism are both wrong. Having the love of God and following his commandments are what save us.
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Why mention names? This thread has nothing to do with personalities. I don't know about others, but I had no intentions of naming people in this discussion. This has nothing to do with personalities, but whcih is worse, legalism or homosexuality. I pointed out comparisons not to accuse anyone. That is why I said there are comparisons, but if I were to mention them, I would be accused of calling all legalists homosexuals. There are parallels between legalism and religious tolerance of homosexuality. Let's take the personalities out of the equation and look at this as grown ups.
Why does the word homosexual scare the snot out of us while we accept the word legalism as a term of endearment? Quote:
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It was a stretch when it was originally said and it is a stretch now. A massive one.
We live in a time when the very worst sin a man can commit is preach standards; legalism has been set up as the ultimate monster, worse even than gross sexual perversion. Tell me, you guys on the other side of this issue...would you rather see your son going to an Ultra-Con church, or being a homosexual? That ought to make it a little easier to dial in on. A lot of things are fun to theorize about. |
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Maybe we should start a thread and make comparisons between homosexuals and liberals?
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I'll pass on the bananna. I can't stand them. If you have grapefruit however.. lol
I don't know if you closely read the post I was referring to that stated legalists can be taught. That was response to that quote. Again it is a personal observation that the best legalists make the best homosexuals. Some may remember the situation my family went through a couple years back. I care not rehash or open up old wounds. Needless to say it wasn't too much of a stretch to go from legalism to homosexuality. Quote:
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Just like OUR septic tank..... Good Lord.
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Here's the problem
1. Preaching standards is not universal. If by standards one means the preaching of a dress codes were that important, than there would be an universal guide. The way it is now one can go to any number of churches and find a different ''standard" in each congregation. 2. Standards ultimately boils down to the personal tastes and interpretation of the pastor. If he doesn't want television, he'll preach find a Biblical principle to preach against it. If he says internet is okay, he'll find another principle to justify it. 3. Legalism kills a move of God quicker than a Nagasaki Nuke. 4. This is a topic about legalism, not conservatives or liberals. If you want to label legalists go ahead, but we know conservatives who are not legalists. Too bad there aren't enough of them. Quote:
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I think that is tough to overcome both. I overcame legalism. It can be done! I know people that overcame homosexuality. It can be done too! Though sometimes it is easier to talk to Homosexuals cause they understand that everyone is different whereas the legalist do not understand how anyone can be different than them. |
I think legalists are very much at risk for sexual sins. Unrepentant legalists are sinners of the worst stripe....and I think sexual sins are often bred out of it. But there are many who practice a form of conservativism that may have some legalism....but they are living what they believe with an honest heart. I think there is a big difference.
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Where were you at the beginning of this thread? Some people have a hard time not taking this as an attack on conservatism. The discussion is about legalism not conservatism.
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For ME it is like asking, would you rather see your son sitting in the court of King Herod or sitting under the teachings of a Pharisee? Neither are good, constructive, or desirable by any stretch, so the question is, What is worse? Well, again it goes back to the point made many times in the New Testament that the pharisees were the only ones that Jesus got truly angry with. Most likely because they were supposed to know better! |
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Good point made again.
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I think that legalists and homosexuals are different in that legalists are trying to serve God but a homosexual is serving themselves.
Would you rather have someone who serves God and may go overboard in their concept of standards, or have a someone who's only real concern is serving them self? |
Legalists are serving something.
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Now have about answering my question.......:nah:nod |
You caught me in a rare terse moment. I was trying to be diplomatic. But since you ask, legalists are serving a spirit of control and manipulation. It's got a name, but I've dealt with the spirit in real life. I don't have a desire to deal with it in cyberspace.
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Good thing the question isn't, "Who is more pleasant to be around, homosexuals or legalists?". :D
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How could we decide who is a legalist?
By what standard? We all KNOW what Homosexuality is but how would we define a legalist? Yes, I know the dictionary might tell us something but I mean among us how would we decide if we wanted too just who is a legalist? |
In answer to the original question----sin is sin is sin. There are different severities as to the consequences of sin, but ultimately we don't want to be bound by sin. Whether its perversion OR religiosity, neither is pleasing to the Lord, so quit worrying about which is worse and GO AND SIN NO MORE!!!!!!
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Everyone has their own interpretation of apostolic. I think we could come up with a couple million different definitions of legalism.
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It's a no brainer....
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The Sadducee sect was primarily limited to the Temple hierarchy while the Pharisees had set up a nationwide alternative to the Temple's schools- the synagogue system. Thus the Pharisees were literally everywhere you went in 1st Century Israel. Granted that's a minor point- but important when asking why Jesus didn't spend more time on the Sadducees. |
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