Sorry....another..TV Question
 

I know that this issue has been talked about too much already, however I have a question of my own.

In the UPCI manual under the "Position Papers" section, there is a paragraph on the official position of the UPC in regards to internet use (this came out in 1998).

Rather than attempt to ban the internet, the UPC simply cautions everyone on its usage. The article recommends that the members of the UPC control, regulate, and be accountable when using the internet. But it doesn't BAN it.

Question: What would be wrong with changing the TV stand to this same type of sensible wording? Rather than having a total ban on TV why not copy the same wording on internet use and apply it to TV??

ANY thing that we MISUSE in this world is wrong. There is no way one could ban every thing that has the possibility of being misused.

Now with that said I truly believe God speaks to the heart of pastors and gives them direction concerning there own congregation. If any of the above was not being used appropriately than of course that local pastor would need to address that, with the members who could not control the internet or TV.

Anyway just my common sense opinion.

God Bless.

Sorry that makes too much sense.

Furthermore there some stats in the survey which just don't jive w/ TV advertising/usage and the present position on internet ...

while its a statistical dead heat on the issue of advertising on TV and most feel ministers should not be granted the liberty to advertise ...

The following results are confusing:

11. Do you think it's acceptable to advertise on the Internet but not on the TV?

Yes - 45.4%
No - 54.6%

12. Do you think it's acceptable to minister on the Internet but not on the TV?

Yes - 45.7%
No- 54.3%


Now, either folks see this position as an inconsistency or some want to abolish Internet advertising/ministering also.

The survey question that still has me puzzled is

13. Would you be in favor of the UPCI producing commercials for advertising on TV?

Yes - 52%
No - 48%

Because the TV prohibition is the holy grail of the org...to lift the ban is to give away a very important piece of territory....It is the temple mount, don't give it back to the islamoes....lifting the ban of TV was were the Assembly of Gods lost all of their holiness standards...ammending the ban is the slippery slope into gross sin and spiritual neglect....the TV prohibition is the bastion of braggatory righteous proclamations, "we don't allow hollywoood to influence our homes"...it's the seperation!!!!

Last but not least....

None of the Apostolic prreachers or churches can handle having tv, the spirituality of the movement is so low that tv will turn all of the preachers into proud, money grubbing, movie stars and will turn the churches into nothing more than entertainment centers...

TIC but honest as well...BTW....

At least this is what the conservatives seem to say.....

Thanks for the honest responses so far.

anything from those who think differently??

First of all,

Where is there an all out "ban" on tv within the Manual? There is a ban for the minister on tv and video for pure entertainment watching that is "unwholesome". But there are allowances given to the minister to view video that is clean and wholesome.

But all wording, if my memory is correct, concerning saints is simply that it is disapproved of by the Org, and not banned completely.

Are you saying change the word "internet/computer" to "television". I think that would work!:killinme

I don't think that would ever happen.

"stmatthew" I believe you are correct. However, some interpret/preach a total ban. The manual states " all members are Admonished NOT to have TV". (page 158, 5th paragraph).

"Sam", I agree it probably won't happen, but why?

Is it possible that way back when, the writers of this clause, didn't /couldn't see the future of modern media? Maybe it should have been worded different, thats all.

Bro. Bob, are you from Oklahoma? Just wondering.... isn't that a picture of Stoops?

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!

Boomer Sooner!!!!!!!!!

I think there is a complete ban on the membership preachers of the upci with regard to having a television, but not the constituents of the local congregations.... or something like that1..

The manual does stipulate that NO licensed minister is permitted to have a TV in the home...it also says that it admonishes all memebers to not have one (which is interpreted as "saints" and not just ministers)...

But, since the Articles of Faith say, "We disapprove our members having tvs" and since the affirmation statement says, "the one signing will teach, preach, and practice the holiness standards listed in the A of F"....it would seem that there is an expectation that the saints won't have one or at least the pastor will preach against havingone....

Ok...I'll take the sarcastic hat off for a second and say that the ones who are 'for" tv probably feel the same way, "that there is no sense in the double standard due to the increase of technology in its various forms".

The ones who are "agaist" tv seem to feel that the tv prohibition is a needed rule of distinction and the org cannot afford to give one other inch as far as letting down on identifying standard issues.

It would seem that the conservatives really believe that letting down on tv will open the door for other changes that would ultimately lead the UPC away from all of its traditional holiness standards.

I personally don't believe that alowing tv will do that.

I dare say that there is a double standard due to the increase of technology namely the "internet". As I have posted on another thread - Put the word "television" in place of the "internet/computer" in the UPCI manual and would probably mean about the same.

Unfortunately, there are other "double standards" that no one wants to touch. For instance, "I don't go to the movies, I just wait till it comes out on video". Here's another good one: won't own a television, however, will watch it anywhere else: hotel/motel, cabin, cottage, restaurant, condo, RV, family & friends home - hummmm. Television is not what separates us from the world...If we want true separation, we should take notes from the Amish, they represent true holiness in many ways.:nod

True holiness? Only if your definition of 'true holiness' to be what you are wearing as defined by holiness standards of the UPCI. But the Amish don't really have 'true holiness' as defined by the Bible.

I'm sorry - I should have never drugged the Amish into this. The point I was making was about the television issues.

I agree with you in "true holiness" - unfortunately, I'm not so sure that others sees it that way.

I like your quote at the end of your post - "If people would just get televisionin their lives they ouldn't be so bored and have to gossip about each other." It reminds me of the time my husband preached one night, a long time ago, that a person gossipping on a colored telephone can be more damaging than a colored television. LOL

I happen to live in a large Amish community and see them everywhere I go. They have their problems like everyone else, but they don't bring attention to themselves, nor does the media invade their lives, so it seems that they live in peace and harmony when that's far from the truth. I did understand your point all the same...LOL!

I like your husband's quote. You should add that to your sig line!

Yes thats me Bob Stoops, whats up!

Thanks for the explanations and comments everyone,

gotta go put the team to bed.................hehe

OU!!!!

Uh...Bob...your team is beatin up on North Texas right now...how you posting from the sideline, you look really busy...

Oh, you don't have a tv so you wouldn't know....:killinme

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

oh yea, it's tough coaching a game and posting on this forum with my new "Blackberry" cellphone...............

multi-tasking!!!!!!!!!!hehe

I agree with your suggestion, :highfive ,,and commonsense!

Hey Bobbo!

If there was a government mandate that all citizens, including children, watch two hours of television per night, and it was all government propaganda, would you resist?

Now, what if it was all propaganda, in the form of "documentaries" that disproved the bible and Christianity?

And last but not least, what if just your children were required to watch, and what if it wasn't blatant propaganda at all, but was subtle, almost subliminal, programming intended to limit critical thought, promote emotional reaction over rational reason, and deconstruct traditional values of family, patriarchy, self-sacrifice, and freedom?

Because that's what we're getting.

Your capacity for mockery is only exceeded by your incapacity to comprehend.

The programming and commercials aren't good, psychologically, for us to watch. You probably consider yourself immune to the power of suggestion, but that just shows that you are becoming calloused to the siren song of blasphemy and hedonism. Your children are

I comprehend that you did not follow all of my posts on this thread concerning this matter...

I have a greater level of ability to comprehend than you do obviously....:killinme

I also comprehend that your spirituality has to be legislated and that you have no way to control the works of your own flesh or to gird up your own mind or to think on the right things without a total prohibition and abstinence...

I comprehend that you cannot afford to watch those commercials because you have no self control....

I finally comprehend that you started a sentence about my children but failed to finish it...

Oh one more thing, I comprehend that you don't know jack squat about my children so I'd suggest you leave them out of this....

OP_CARL: your correct on one point.....there is some things on TV you shouldn't watch........CHANGE THE CHANNEL.........TURN IT OFF.......CONTROL TV......JUST LIKE YOU DO THE INTERNET.....(oh i forgot....you probably think there is no sinfulness and "propaganda" on the internet....that's why your here .....right???

He won't comprehend this arguement......:sos

Kids nowadays have no choice but to be on the internet.

I had a teacher when I was a kid that would have the kids watch a NOVA program or something similar from PBS.

I was never able to take the test. I didn't have a TV. But I was the only kid who didn't.

If I lived as a kid in the here and now without internet, I would struggle to pass my classes.

Point taken, except there is no mandate.

I watch very little television, but still want the option of turning on the news or the football game should my sweet little one decide to nap at an appropriate time. :)

mmm hmmm. Just as I suspected.

You are projecting some things onto me here unmeritoriously. I am convinced that people are going to do what people want to do. I don't support Pentecostal fascism. I believe that if people can find a conjunction of a moment of personal and spiritual clarity, and be presented with the facts and evidence of the agendas behind most television programming, they will decide that it is not only ungodly, but detracts from the bona fide goals of the overcoming Christian.

I stand by my first statement using the word.

I realized what a waste of words the whole thing was, and was about to delete it, but at the last second submitted the reply anyhow.

Your children, and mine, being less mature and self-aware, are more susceptible to the visual devices employed by marketers. And it isn't just toys they're selling.


I keep saying that the stuff has a lot of innuendo that is bad for man and boy alike, and some of you keep interpreting it to mean that I'm a TV nazi ready to smash sets and take names.

I keep saying that the internet shows you what you ask it to show you, and broadcast television incessantly pumps what they want to show you, and yet this is either ignored or not comprehended as well, evidenced by all the hollering about hypocrisy.


What is the goal of this thread? Are you hoping to persuade, be persuaded, find justification, or just be antagonistic?

Solution: Home School, Christian School.

So you would resist if the government mandated that you and your children spend time daily viewing anti-Christian propaganda? How would you resist?

Why would it become important to resist it if it were more institutionalized?

What about it would cause you to be more brave and principled than you are now?


Leave it on one of the three networks during dinner some weeknight and try to count the number of times God is blasphemed or sex is referenced.

Ask yourself how desensitization to this garbage is going to be helpful to your goals of winning more people to God.

Three words (S>O>S) Stuck on Stooopid

OP_Carl: The purpose of this thread was a discussion about the wording in the UPC ministers manual.

Thanks for your input, your opinion has been duly noted.

You do have a valid point that the TV is broadcast to you and the internet is voluntary.

However, self control.......can and MUST be applied to each one.

God Bless

Sure. I'll send my bills to you so they can get paid while I homeschool my children.


Thanks for offering!!! :D

The great thing about cable is that one has the option of watching something other than filth!!!

Kinda like we do on the internet!!!

I disagree with this in the confines of I watch what I want to watch and turn off what I want to turn off...I have program guides which give me the ratings of the show and information beforehand concerning content...

When I sign on the internet at my house my home page flashes all kinds of advertisements at me...some with women in skimpy attire, bikinis, and such...advertising vacations spots and such...how am I in total control there? I end up seeing...if even for a brief moment...that which I am not in control of seeing...

This argument doesn't hold water in this regard...plain and simple, both the internet and TV must be controlled in a Christian manner.

I do not know what the goal of this thread is and have no idea why you asked me...I did not author it.

Especially when it comes to sites that have advertising on it. You have no control over words and pictures that come up.

The good thing about TV is, the commercials are geared to the audience. If cartoons is on, beer commercials aren't.

The internet isn't that specific.

Exactly...

This is the deal as well for the "interent is controlable Tv is not" crowd...

How many marriages have been broken up over tv verses the internet?

How many child molesters have arranged meetings with children for sex over a tv verses the internet?

How much free pornography can be accessed by children on the tv verses the internet?

How many children have fallen into trouble in chat rooms on the Tv verses the internet?

How many extremly suggestive pictures have been "posted" on the "myspace" tv as opposed to the internet?

Humm?????