What is a Happening Church to you? What is a Dead church?
 

What is a happening church? Programs programs programs? Great music? A built in cafe? People coming to believe in Jesus, repenting, being baptized and being filled with the Holy Ghost? The gifts operating?

For what it's worth, I have had "happening church" in a prayer meeting or in a bible study. Dead to me is nobody is worshiping, nobody prays, nobody new ever comes to church, nobody is getting saved and the Spirit just is not moving. I don't consider a Joel Osteen experience happening

Wow! lets totally disect my thread, huh?

Dead to me is when I go to church, and don't leave filled. Where worship is stale, and preaching is empty.

Happening, is a church on fire for God. Where worship is deep and preaching is edifying.

Its not about programs although they help.

The most dynamic, entertaining, riveting oratory is empty if it doesn't tell people God's only plan of salvation.

Trinitarian churches don't ever preach that message.

their preaching is therefore as empty as it can get, no matter how entertaining it might be, or how much good information there is on anger management, coping skills, reationship advice, stress relief, or whatever hot topic the Osteens of the world are pontificating about.

Why are we mentioning the Olsteens?!??!?!?

As much as I believe Acts 2:38, it can't be the only thing preached service after service, and standards on our weekday services

We need that if we are going to survive the REAL WORLD

True enough...but you can have all those things in spades and still go to hell.

If they aren't preaching the only saving message, the rest is jut fluff.

Yes, but sister, in trinity churches it is NEVER preached.

Agreed, however this thread is about the difference between a dead and a happening church, we are not talking about trinnies, that would be my previous thread.

Good! Although I think it's entirely possible for a person to go to a happening church and not leave filled and consider the worship dead and the preaching empty. Some of it is about our own attitudes and expectations too. Thad might think only a church like his, where they are "shockamooing" is a happening church while Keith4Him might think in their church where they are not necessarily as physically demonstrative as Thad's, but have the gifts in operation is a happening church.

Then too I have seen individuals that could NOT get into a service where the Spirit was moving for anything because they did not like the Pastor or someone else in the church or they had already decided this church is dead or they don't like the modern songs they are playing. You know I felt the Holy Ghost at a BET Gospel Celebration recording (Vicki was singing there too) during Donnie McClurken's song. I was worshiping and speaking in tongues. Most of the others I just did not feel it...I even felt like that once at a Carman concert at Magic Mountain...he was doing some songs that just sounded "Pentecostal" (and he does have a Pentecostal background), but I really didn't care what others thought. I have felt happening at bible studies, personal prayer and corporate prayer. I have felt happening in many different places. I know people that would never think the preaching of a Pentecostal church is fulfilling....they prefer the book by book teaching of a Calvery Chapel.

And so what was your answer to the question? Folks this is not Darcie's thread version #2. If you want to discussion where to go, a dead OP church or a happening Trinnie church, discuss it there please :-)

Yes but HOW do we do it? How did the first church, which dealt with Jewish and Roman persecution and death cope? Do we need to incorporate non-bible psychology?

Again, like I stated before, we can't survive on Acts 2:38 and standards. Paul's messages were more than that... that was the point I was trying to make.

In all of my years around the Apostolic Movement, I have never, ever known even one single preacher that thought those two topics were all that people needed.

That is a rotten, decomposing red herring.

Ok maybe not all they preached, just 99.9% of the time

What pastor preaches Acts 2:38 and standards week in and week out? Sheep arent' fed with that message. That message is how they became sheep in the first place.

A happening church is where the Spirit is making things happen because His children are seeking His face. It can happen where two or three are gathered together and everyone sings off key but from the heart. But the epitomy of a happening church is what we read about in the book of Acts.

I never attended any churches like that.

I didn't even mention Acts 2:38 or standards...lol

Can someone tell me what a HAPPENING CHURCH is and what a DEAD CHURCH is in their opinion?

I have never seen that, and I grew up in a far more conservative area than NYC.

How many of these awful churches have you attended enough to know this about them?

You would have to go for a good while to really be able to make such a judgment.

Truly, this sounds like one of those Pentecostal urban myths, the horrible preachers who preach nothing but Acts 2:38 and standards.

So tell us...how many can you say for sure are like this, in your experience?

Or is this assumption and hearsay?

I agree, particularly when the other participants never brought it up as an issue or when they themselves never have in the past as an issue (me). After a while it gets annoying and when just about every topic ends up like that it just drags them all down imo

Me either. It really boggles the mind lol

I've been in UPC for my whole life 32 years. Thank God my pastor wasn't that way... but I know what I'm talking about. I've traveled enough and been to enough conferences.

We really need an Apostolic version of Snopes.com.

We could call it Prax.com,and you could debunk all the dumb myths perpetrated by those who don't like us and repeated by people who want to indulge theor passion for self-loathing over being Apostolic.

but this Pentecostal urban myth is being constantly perpetuated by people claiming to be Oneness Pentecostal on Oneness Pentecostal boards. My former Pastor was pretty conservative and we did not get a constant weekly dose of "all you need is Acts 2:38 and standards" and that was before my current Pastor who I would describe as being more moderate

I've been in UPC for my whole life 32 years. Thank God my pastor wasn't that way... but I know what I'm talking about. I've traveled enough and been to enough conferences.

Just quoting!

So by hearing a man preach a sermon or two at a conference, you can tell what he preaches "99.9% of the time" at his church?

Sister, you are either selling us a bill of goods, or yo have bought into one.

I rather think it is the latter.

I believe you to be sincere, but you are wrong about this, plain and simple.

Just visiting a church a night or two or hearing a man at a conference does NOT qualify you to make the kind of sweeping, broad brush statements and judgemnts you are passing around here.

Its called life experience...I'm not saying I know it all...NOT AT ALL.. I know what I've seen for myself, what my peers have experienced...

And by the way... I never said all OP preachers are one and the same... so lets lighten up here.

Then with due respect, lighten up on the sweeping generalizations about my brethren...

I have been around longer than you have.

I have preached in approximately half the districts in the USA, and a couple of foreign countries.

And I have never, ever met this mythical preacher who preaches Acts 2:38 and standards 99.9% of the time.

And do you know what?

I don't think very many of your peers have either.

That is a load of bunk.

Again, Bro. Amos, this is where I started my deal on the Acts 2:38

Church is what I make of it. If the Holy Ghost is moving and people are seeking God and they are behind the preacher and the message is dynamic, but I have a lousy attitude and can't get into it, or the preacher says one thing I don't like and so I start fault finding, and don't pray through and leave with the same crummy attitude, than I'm the one thats dead. I have never been to a "dead'' church.



ARPH :doggyrun

Oh ....let me help you out w/ this ... Praxeas and Amos ...

First, God's plan of Salvation is Jesus Christ ... HIS DEATH AND RESURRECTION are the Gospel ... We are not saved based on our re-enactment of it.

Second, a dead church is JUST THAT ... DEAD. Many posters, including myself, defined the difference between a happening church and a dead church ... in the previous thread but some will read into it what the please.

A dead church does not lift up the THE LIFE ... but lift up their own works, man-made traditions, religious rituals and their kingdoms.

A dead church does not ALLOW the PNEUMA OF GOD ... to operate ... it is as dead as the dead bones in the valley the prophet was instructed to speak to.

A dead church mechanizes salvation, worship and preaching because they've got it down to a science....

A dead church is not grafted into the VINE ... and therefore do not demonstrate the fruit of the Spirit ... nor are they showing the world what makes them disciples ... LOVING ONE ANOTHER because the LOVE OF THE FATHER is in them.

A Spirit-filled church, Trinitarian or OP, has THE LIFE flowing through it's members... it has growth in many areas ... impact, maturity, vision, and yes ... even in number.

A HAPPENING CHURCH is God-centered and lost-centered. A happening church is the body of a PALPABLE GOD ... he is the Head. Their energy and life source is HIM.

:yahoo:happydance:amen:shockamoo

A dead church is IDOLATROUS ... they glory in thinking they have cornered the market of truth ... and revel in their ability to define and explain an infinite God ... yet the truth is they do not have the TRUTH because they do not live it ... nor allow His truth to live through them in their relationship w/ God and others.

A happening church burns with passion and a fire for an daily encounter with a LIVING GOD ... they rest themselves in the bosom of the Master ... they feel his heartbeat .... saving that which is lost ....

A dead church is an amputee ... seeking to disfellowship and maim other vital members in the body because they don't look or act like them ...

A dead church is enfeebled and starving ...because the manna offered is stale and cookie-cutter ... it is not a one size fits all mold by which one's walk is defined or a measuring stick of the Word working in and providing alimentation to one's life.

A happening church offers the BREAD OF LIFE ... for daily victorious living ... not a handful of pet doctrines and topics that make the blood-thirsty preacher feel like he's slaughtered the hogs and pious in his self-righteousness.

A happening church are PEOPLE OF HIS NAME. They do not possess His name simply because the proper name of Jesus was invoked by a baptizer over a believer but because the possess the entire character of the person that the name describes ...

In ancient times the term name revealed the full character of the person.

One writer tell us:

The name given is made to refer to position or official relationship, so that the position is meant when the word "name" is used. Even in this sense "a good name is rather to be chosen than great riches." The success of the Lord's work is to Him "for a name" -- an honor. (Isa. 55:13) To the obedient the Lord promises "an everlasting name." (Isa. 56:5) "but the name of the wicked shall rot." (Prov. 10:7) To receive a prophet in the name of a prophet certainly refers to his official character.

"Thou shalt call his name Jesus because He shall save His people from their sins." Jesus means Savior, and we are carried forward from the mere word to the exalted official position, on account of which he can "save to the utmost all who come unto God by him." His position is contrasted with that of men and angels, as he is Lord of both, having "all power in heaven and earth." Hence, it is said, "Let ALL the angels of GOd worship him"; [that must include Michael, the chief angel, hence Michael is not the Son of God] and the reason is, because he has " by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they."

Michael or Gabriel are perhaps grander names than Jesus, though Jesus is grand in its very simplicity, but the official character of the Son of God as Savior and King is the inheritance from his Father, which is far superior to theirs, for it pleased the Father that in him all fullness should dwell. He has given him a name which is above every name, that at the NAME of Jesus every knee should bow both in heaven and earth. And there is "none other name under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved." With this view before our minds that the name refers to his official position, the importance of taking from among the Gentiles a "people for his name" will be appreciated. As the wife takes the name of her husband, so the church takes the name of her Head. The two made one is the fact of importance. Not one in name merely, but in fact, as represented by the name -- one in spirit, position, aim and work.

The difference between the terms Jesu-it and Christian may illustrate a point. The first relates to the letter, as Jesus, is a proper name; the second relates more nearly to the spirit, as Christ means Anointed and refers to his official position.

We are not here pleading for a name, but what appears to be an important idea. There is doubtless as much danger in using the name Christian as the name of a sect, as in using other names. The one body knows no divisions. All who have the spirit of Christ are one whether they fully realize it or not; one in spirit now and when glorified -- married -- one in every possible sense, even as the Father and Son are one. (John 17:22, 23).

To be baptized into the name of Jesus (or Father, Son, and Holy Spirit), as in him all fullness of the Godhead dwells, means far more than a baptismal formula. It is by the apostle expressed as being baptized by one spirit into one body (1 Cor. 12:13). There are letter and spirit in the subject of baptism as in almost every other part of God's plan. We should not ignore or belittle either. The letter represents the spirit, as a symbol or "likeness of his death", and "resurrection" (Rom. 6:5).

Those who can appreciate the Spirit need not and are not most likely to ignore the letter, but it seems important that we should guard against mere formalism. In spirit, to be baptized into Christ involves a death to sin, a rising into a new life of obedience, and a consequent formation of a character; -- having "your fruit unto holiness and the end everlasting life" (Rom. 6:22) "As many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ" (Gal. 3:27). "Into one body!" "Ye are members of Christ," as in the figure used, bone of his bone and flesh of his flesh (Eph. 5:30). Do not confound the figure with the reality, do not imagine we will lose our individuality. "

Water baptism is but a figure of Christ's death and resurrection of the inward work he has done when we placed our faith in Him and repented of our sins.

"The body of Christ is a body corporate, each individual acting in harmony with each other and under the direction of Christ for the manifestation of God's love in the salvation of men.

The human body is used to represent the church, but in this as in all other figures the reality is but dimly fore-shadowed. As Jesus is the Anointed, so are we, and for the same purpose. He is both king and priest, so we are to be kings and priests -- kings to rule and priests to bless.

To be baptized into his name is to become sharers in his spirit, his character, his official positon and his work. The power given to him will be manifested through his saints. He is our Savior, but the body corporate will save the world."


The apostles, namely Peter and Paul understood and preached this message when the echoed the words of the prophet Joel that those who called upon the name of the Lord will be saved ... because they understood that the name of the Lords is the Person of Jesus Christ ... He does the saving when as believer we turn to God and draw nigh unto HIM.

If a trinitarian or OP is Spirit filled they are people of His name and part of the body.


http://www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/jname.html

A dead church is one of little to no divine love manifested. In the absence of this, God is missing since God is love. In the absence of divine love, there is then the rise of false doctrine among the people, first seen as faith apart from love. Faith becomes primary while divine love is finally forgotten or even recognized for what it is. This sometimes take generations, sometimes even less.

A happening church is one where love is primary since the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost. From the presence of that divine love, the light shines on His own Word, giving light to the Truth, the Word of God. This can be said of a people who HATE a lie and every FALSE way.

Thus a happening church is led on from glory to glory. From glory to glory is accomplished by having the mind renewed and is "transformed (metamorphosis) into His own image.

This is accomplished by a church who loves the truth, loving not a lie by which they are at length given over to strong delusions, but rather are fervent in the Word of Truth and in good works, loving what the Lord Himself loves.

Amazingly enough, you hear very little about trinitarian churches that "mature" to the place that even the basic fundamental doctrine of baptism in Jesus name is accepted. Doesn't sound like their maturing to me.

The Holy Ghost leads one into ALL truth. I do not for one moment believe that the Holy Ghost "skips over" the correct biblical method of water baptism, and allow someone to go on into perfection. Water baptism is a foundational doctrine. If one does not have it right, then they are off on everything else.

A True "Happening" Church will be a church where the True Word is preached to the congregation. A place where the congregation begins to look, talk, and over all act, like Jesus Christ. It will be a place were there is a balance. A place where gifts operate. A place where sinners are saved, and backslidders are restored. A place were saints grow in grace, and in the knowledge of the Lord.

It is not a "Happening Place" just because the steppers perform, or the McGruders sing. It is not "Happening" because the church shouts, and people jerk with convulsions under the "power".

To me, 2 things represent the "Happening" church:

Truth is preached and Maturity is reached.

Maturity will reached when there is an understanding of what it means to be people of His name ... as long as your definition excludes people who are filled the same Spirit that indwells you ... your truth ... will be just elementary understanding of what the name and person of Jesus entails and who is HIS BODY.

Please examine post 36 ... Trinnies and OP's both have called upon the name of the Lord. ... in the person of Jesus Christ our Savior.

12For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. 13For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

1 Corinthians 12:12-13

But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Romans 8:9