Why Do We Suffer? & Does God Really Punish Us?
 

I know there are many approaches to answering this age-old question asked by atheists and believers alike. Just this week one my Special Ed students asked me the same question .... If God is good, why does He allow bad things to happen to us?

I couldn't answer his question right there and then because of laws that prohibit me... but told him his question has been asked by many and spoke to him a little in private.

I know there are some who answer this question w/ one, some, or all of the biblical reasons for our suffering. I wince when some preachers don't approach this topic without any balance ... either it's all "GOD IS LOVE" OR "GOD IS GOING TO TAKE YOU OUT FOR YOUR SIN"

I think some of the bible-based reasons for human suffering include:

1. It is a result of human choice ... [Namely our disobedience]
The Prodigal Son and the Lost Sheep, of Luk.15.

They suffer because they run away from home, they do not keep the Commandments, which are like the Laws of Traffic: If you pass the red light or you come out of the road, you may hurt others or yourself... God is after them, and waiting for them, for their repentance, their change of life, not to punish them, but to bring them home, and receive them with a great feast, organized in person by God! (Luk.15:5-6, 22-24).

The wages of sins [our choices] is death.

2. Correction is part of God's Love/ He Molds Us - Hebrews 12:
They are like vaccine injections God gives to the ones He loves.

'As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent." Rev. 3:19

The loving potter often needs to mold us and even break us to conform to His image.

3. We Participate in Fellowship of His Suffering, Colos.1:24:Phillippians 3
Christians share in the fellowship of His suffering. Of course, He will not give us more we can bear.

4- The Chastisements of God ... God's Righteousness demands punishment for sin and evil.

- In Judges: God uses other nations to punish Israel.
- The Flood of Gen.7:17: God uses a flood for 40 days (6:6-8).
- Sodom and Gomorrah of Gen.19:24: Burning sulphur out the heavens from Yahweh
- The 10 Plagues of Exodus 7-12: Ten different plagues from God.
- In Job, God allows Satan... but it was w/ God's consent! (Job 1:9-12, 21).
- Hell [don't wince Crakjak]... the worst punishment of God... eternal!

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How do you approach this subject?
What are the reasons why we suffer?
How do you answer this question when an unbeliever asks you?
Does your answer change when a believer asks you this question?
Why do you think some don't approach this question in a balanced way?



http://biblia.com/jesusbible/judges4.htm

As with most things in life there are no easy answers.

I do believe that much of our suffering is self induced. Many times we repeat either the mistakes we have made in the past or the mistakes that are in our family's history.

For example a person raised in a poor uneducated family may carry on being poor and suffering without enough resources because they do not, with the help of God, break free from their families low expectations in life and work hard to get an education and good job to better themselves.

Then even with more successful people many times stress and "suffering" is self induced by poor decision making and poor judgement in financial matters. I count myself in this group!

I also believe that God uses suffering to teach us lessons, mold our character, etc. Like DA though I believe this has to be balaned out with the Bible's overall premise that God desires to bless us.

Good words Dan.

Sometimes it's hard to process that some our suffering is motivated by love.

It's wondrous to know that He bore all our suffering to give us new life.

It's difficult to accept that our actions have consequences.

And just think...Life is full of pain, sorrow, struggle, strife, and Jesus came to give us Life more Abundantly.

I agree that a lot of suffering is self-induced. I love to hear those dear old Saints get up and blame the devil for everything.

"Ol' Preacher...the devil's really been on me this week....my car engine blew up...my dog died...and my kid has really been hyper-out of control"

I just want to say...."Well Brother, your car had 300,000 miles on it and you hadn't changed the oil in 2 years, you let your dog chase cars all day, and you feed your kid cokes and candy all day"

"THE DEVIL DIDN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH IT!"

But seriously, some things are just life! We are daily dieing and live in a world where moth and rust do corrupt!

I feel that Daniel A. covered it really well. It's a little of all of the above.

It is difficult to our human minds, but look at your gorgeous kids.

Their actions have consequences, and if you love them, they will suffer from your punishment when their actions do not follow the course you have for them while they are young. You are responsible for raising them into law-abiding, God-fearing adults and unfortunately, that means punishment is necessary along the way.

Herein lies part of the dilemma ... Pastor .... when we are faced w/ other believers who are going thru tough times ... and even in our inner discussions w/ self.

Sometimes we know them, and our ourselves, well enough to know that one of the reasons for they're/we're suffering are their/our poor decisions ...but it's difficult to face the facts... yet it's so easy for us to convince ourselves we didn't play a role and uplift them/ourselves w/ stock answers such as:

The devil's is a liar!
The enemy wants to get you down.
This is just test of your faith.
It rains on the just and unjust.
God's just testing you.
etc.

Can it be, at times, all of the above is at work plus our poor decisions and disobedience?

The tough part is presenting and learning this in a right, uplifting and balanced way ....

1. Very Carefully :hypercoffee

2. We need to grow and sometimes that comes thru suffering; this world is not our home so we'll never be really comfortable; without suffering we wouldn't need God; and the reasons you stated at first.

3. Very Carefully :hypercoffee

4. Sometimes, depending on how much they may or may not believe in God

5. I think we can't really handle it, it shows in the numbers, this thread has had about 430 views with 6 responses

I agree with CC1 (which is no surprise, I usually do)...

I have a lot of thoughts on this but most are too personal to share so I will let CC1 speak for me.

Welcome back, SheltieDad. Perhaps you could generalize your thoughts somewhat...? I usually agree with you more than I should :)

We suffer because ........

1. Sin entered the human race through the disobedience of Adam.

2. We transgress the law and will of God.

3. God allows it to temper and train us and to make us aware of His grace and strength provided to us when going though times of trial and difficulty.

4. We have constant pressure and opposition from and are a target of Satan's goal of destroying and diminishing the children of God.

5. We are part of the human race. Good and bad happens to all. The human body, psyche and nature are all vulnerable and fallible. The rain falls on the just and unjust.

Suffering can also come as a result of .....

6. Doing the will of God. How many have laid down their lives and endured persecution and even torture because of their faith and unwillingness to compromise their stand for truth and godliness?! This kind of suffering can come from both the Godly and the ungodly.

7. Natural physical laws and forces beyond our control such as weather and disease, rise and fall of governments and economies.

8. We are not of the world but we're IN it and thereby subject to the forces that define it.

Dan the man you have some good thoughts on this already, and quite frankly I'm about to pout because miss F stole my answer! :sshhh:nah:winkgrin

Suffering and death are the human condition, bestowed upon us through the fall by Adam.


I start by gauging the audience. What are they going through that has prompted the questions? Do I know whether they are saved? Are they spiritually mature? Do they just need a hug? Basically I need to know how much they are able to receive.
This one has been adequately answered already. I also believe that, from time to time, there are special cases - Daniel Alicea comes to mind here - where God has chosen one person or another, to mess with just for spiteful fun. Like a kid standing over an ant mound with a magnifying glass.

j/k
:killinme
A little less of the "self-inflicted" business and a little more of the "rains on the just and unjust" business.
A believer tends to ask it, rhetorically, in their moment of pain. They need a hug, prayers, maybe they just need someone to sit there with them and listen to them think - even if they aren't thinking out loud. It is more likely to be an invitation for a philosophical discussion with unbelievers or new converts.
They are unbalanced themselves. :angelsad



[/B]http://biblia.com/jesusbible/judges4.htm[/QUOTE]

9. Some love suffering and find it virtuous. Others find some gratification in others feeling sorry for them .... Psychologists .... I think call it co-dependency ... others call it masochism. Sick none the less.

Would not a lot of things we experience stem from the fall in the garden of Eden ?

That was #1 on my list of 8.

I missed the list.

Maybe you missed it on my first response. I'm in full agreement with you and feel that you covered it well and agree that it is rarely one thing alone. At times...it is all of the above.

And sometimes we have to face the fact that we do not and may not ever understand the "whys and what-fors"

The bible speaks of the rain falling on the just and the unjust. When I've heard this referred to, most of the time people bring it up they use this verse to relay that bad things happen to all of us. However, when we look at rain, it can be a good or a bad thing. We need rain to help things grow and stay hydrated. Yet too much of it can be just as bad as not enough. So the good and bad happen to the good and bad. That is just another way of saying life happens to all of us. A lot of what happens to us is a direct result of our own decisions. As I look back on my life and think about all of the times I could have changed my own circumstances by making a different decision, I know that my life could have been improved on that alone.
I think of Jonah and how he disobeyed the voice of the Lord. Did God punish him for that? or did God simply use the things that happened to teach Jonah a lesson. Jonah jumped overboard because of the guilt he felt from not doing what God had told him to. When you think about it, the whale became Jonah's greatest blessing. God, in his great mercy gave Jonah another chance to do what he should have in the first place. It was a hard lesson to go thru but God used the experience to teach obedience.

Thank you for your insights, MrsBoom .... And a hearty amen.

I don't like suffering. Call me a wimp or whatever I don't care. I prefer things easy rather than hard. That's just the truth.

I really haven't had to suffer much really - especially in comparison with what many have had to endure and go through. I've been very blessed; I know that. I just thank God that He's been so kind and gracious to me.

I call it the "suffering complex"...they aren't happy unless they are unhappy.

Came across this while studying this morning. It gives a very good answer to this topic of discussion.

1Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we[a]have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we[b] rejoice in the hope of the glory of God. 3Not only so, but we[c] also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; 4perseverance, character; and character, hope. 5And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out his love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us. Romans 5:1-5 NIV

Dan, Grandad Adam and Grandma Eve reduced perfection to imperfection with one act of disobedience...

...we've been living with the woeful results since the garden.

Sorry, but an old song comes to mind...

This world is not my home,
I'm just a passin' through,
My treasures are laid up,
Some where beyond the blue.

The angels beckon me,
From heaven's open door,
And I can't feel at home,
In this world anymore.

What we're discussing in this post is the fact that "passin' through" is so very difficult...

...except for the mercy of God.....

All I know if you are married ,and tick your wife off ,boy she can make you suffer.

Having considered these questions much lately, I would like to offer a few brief thoughts. I'm new to the forum, so bear with me. I believe that sometimes those in the Body of Christ suffer because of love - misplaced love.

We are told to love not the world, neither the things that are in the world in First John 2:15-17:

15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

Poets and artists tell us that unrequited and misplaced love is the cause of suffering. Their secular views are the bulk of literature and art.

Although I do not agree with all you will read on this website or community, you might find some value to this:

http://dangoldfinch.wordpress.com/a-...-of-suffering/

Brother, I have some shocking news for you. Jesus suffered and He never once broke any commandments. We suffer because sin is in the world.

WOW ... THAT IS NEWS .... SEE REASON #1 ... WHEN I ALSO STATED THE WAGES OF SIN IS DEATH. MERRY CHRISTMAS. :poloroid

I know a short pier you can go take a long walk on, Dan. ;)

You are the one who asked why it is that we suffer, not me. The reason for that is plain as the nose on your face, Bro. We suffer because there is sin in the world. There is a scripture that talks about the whole creation groaning:


Rom8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, 21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. 23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. 24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
Romans 8:20-24 (KJV)



Suffering is going to be with us until God comes back.

Daniel,
This is a very interesting thread, that I will spend more time on later. But one point I will make is: God's severity and His mercy serves the very same purpose. Just as a wise parent's severity and love serve to mold, guide and correct their children.

I will make another point as well: many folks died today the world over, therefore hell (the grave) has enlarged itself.

To my sorrow, my brother (also Falla's and Big-Larry's) were a part of the enlargement today. To my great joy I am very confident that he will be in that number that declare "....Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father!" at the consummation of the redemption of "the whole creation", he is one of the elect, who believed without seeing, therefore he is "more blessed" just as Jesus explained to doubting Thomas.

Crakjack, big-larry, and Falla are siblings? Get outta here! LOL

This (bolded) is truth, likewise if you will just take what the scriptures tell us, Jesus' one act of righteousness RECONCILED to God everyone of those whom Adam's sin infected.

The church declares the great power of Adam's sin, yet reduces the power of Jesus' sacrifice to only those whom happen to hear the right message and obey it in all details. Shocking how the church holds Adam's sin as sooooo much more powerful than Jesus' righteous act. Weird!

Not everyone will pickup on that! Unbelievable isn't it?:killinme

Did another brother pass today, Crakjak?

Yes. My brother just younger than myself. Thanks for asking.

I'm sorry for your loss, brother. My condolences to Falla and Big Larry also. May God provide you comfort.

Thank you, it was quite shocking to us all, though he had had some health problems it was sudden. He was the first of eleven siblings to finish his course.

My condolences as well.

Thank-you.

Crakjak, Big Larry, and Falla,I am sorry about your loss. My heart goes out to you all. I am praying for the family.