Disturbing Trends or Christian Maturity?
 

Disturbing Trends?

"Mass healings" of general, unverifiable pains, ailments and diabetes while the crippled and those in wheelchairs are not singled out for healing of their obvious need.


Addressing the devil in prayer, cursing sickness and rebuking the devil in tongues.


"Commanding" everyone to start speaking in tongues when a signal is given.


We speak things that are not as though they were... but when is this done at the expense of truth?

"Commanding" everyone to start speaking in tongues when a signal is given.




very disturbing to me....

I think the others are up for debate but not this one. I believe the Bible says something about "speaking in unknown tongues as the Spirit gives utterance!"

If I need to pray in the Spirit God will not tell someone else to tell me when but His Holy Spirit will give me the utterance.

Ditto.

This is what you were speaking of earlier?

Some of this has been going on now for some time though. I've been in meetings when we were still in the UPC back in the 80s where some of this stuff started -- particularly the commanding everyone to start speaking in tongues. Man, I hated that and I resisted it. No way would I do that just because someone said to. :nah

You know where that comes from though, right?

The devil cannot understand tongues. What is the purpose of this????

I have seen the prayers for mass healings in large conferences. Doesn't bother me, but also they need to pray for those obviously infirmed.

There are times when we are in a prayer meeting that Eddie asks everyone that is comfortable, and can, to pray in tongues. I don't find that offensive, since we are all interceding together. We don't do that in our services though, as it would cause confusion.

JMHO on these issues....

Same for me. I've been in several of these services and always felt the same way....disturbed!

Disturbing trends, my friend....

Sounds like the UPC is "comin' our way"!:bolt
Just kidding!

Yes and Yes.

And I know it's not entirely new.

Tell us poor unlearned retches the answer..........

DEEZ
turbine

Whaaaa????

Say it very slowly.

Wretches ;) :D

What about the poor wretches retching "DEEZ turbine" and still not getting a clue?

Got a another clue for the clueless here? :dunno

Oh... disturbing. You guys play rough!

The answer is in the title...

You got it!

Funny!

How was the men's retreat - was this a feature of the events there?

I greatly enjoyed the conference - we had record turn-out. David Bernard and Anthony Mangun are always a treat to listen to.

Some of this did occur there, though it did not prevent me from an enjoyable and blessed time in the Lord.

About the telling people to start speaking in tongues, AM does that I think?

I am not willing to discuss names or even quotes on this thread regarding any criticism. Just wanted to throw the general thoughts out there and see what people think.


I am sure the DVDs and CDs are available.

I can appreciate and respect that I guess. :)

My general thoughts are that I don't really go along with some of this either. I speak in tongues a lot when I pray, most of the time in fact. And if someone told me to start praying, I'd do it. If the preacher tells me to stand or start clapping my hands or turn to the person next to me and tell them God loves them I'll do that too (even though I really don't like it :D), but to have someone command me to start speaking in tongues at their whim or fancy, I kind of stiffen a bit. Not exactly sure why, because like I said, I speak in tongues usually when I pray anyhow.

I don't like to be told how to worship either. Even simple things like everyone raise their hands.

I prefer that we were exhorted to reach out to God. I can figure out the specifics on my own, thank you very much. :)

I had a young lady who attended Stockton Bible College tell me this happened at CLC also (the telling everyone to speak in tongues). I believe this is a "Word of Faith" thing, as most of them do this.

If the Holy Ghost is moving, you ain't gonna have to tell folks who are full to speak in tongues. They will already be doing so.

The ignorance of some stuff done in the Name of God and Pentecost is amazing. I would not tolerate this foolishness in a New York second. The sensational always draws a crowd while reason sometimes stands alone.

1 Cor 14:23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad? 24 But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all: 25 And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.

26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying. 27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. 28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God. 29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge. 30 If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace. 31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted. 32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

I suppose that this concept has gone largely unnoticed.

This is what is really being said:

"Ok everybody, hear from the man of God, all at once now.....disobey Paul's archaic teaching from 1 Corinthians 14. He was inspired by the old Holy Ghost...we are of the New!”

“Ready…set…Go!”

How could anyone be so foolish who have recieved the genuine experience to think you could speak in tongues at will or on command.

I agree. I believe the concept of those who do this is that if you are filled with the Holy Ghost that speaking in tongues is a natural "overflow" of the Holy Ghost within you and that all you have to do is "tap into it" or "let it go" any time, at will, and you will speak in tongues.

I don't see any biblical basis for this thought. We have no New Testament example of this kind of behaviour.

Personally speaking in tongues is a very sacrad and special thing that I am in awe of. It happens in special times when there is a special connection of my mind, spirit, and soul with the Holy Spirit of God and the presence of God is so strong speaking in tongues seems a way of releasing the pent up "fullness" of the Holy Spirit.

I just cannot view it as something you switch on and off at will regardless of your frame of mind, etc.

I don't agree with this...sorry. I can speak in tongues as naturally as I can speak in English. If you walk in the Spirit, it can flow out of you like a second language. I pray in tongues and I pray with the understanding; I think that's what Paul meant.

Just like learning to move in the giftings is a little difficult when you first do it (tongues & interpretation, prophecy, etc.), it becomes more natural the more you do it. It's the same with with praying in tongues. Some on here like to say there's no validity to a "prayer language" and say it's a charismatic term, but I would differ with that. I even heard one old time con on here use the term "prayer language". It's a very natural flow.

Sherri,

The point is (I think) that it is not something that you command. It is the flowing of the Holy Ghost giving utterance through you. I would have a raised Eyebrow toward anyone that says they can speak in tongues any time they want to. It would be obvious that it was no longer the Spirit giving the utterance, but the person has just "learned" to talk in tongues from THEIR spirit.

Correct.

If one can stop the Holy Ghost tongue talking then one can start the Holy Ghost tongue talking. To get it started one just needs to yield to Him. To stop it, one needs to unyield, deyield, or whatever one wants to call it. What's so hard about that to figure out?

Wrong again!:hypercoffee
He's a part of me and will flow through me at any time. "He" being the Spirit of God.

I did expect posters to be on both sides of this, hence the thread title --

Disturbing Trends or Christian Maturity?

That was probably a mature thing to do on your part. Anticipate the differences.

I remember reading an article where people either spoke in tongues or prayed "normally" while a CAT scan was running. They actually identified a part of the brain that was very active when people spoke or prayed "normally" and then when speaking in tongues that area went off.

It seems that the phenomena of speaking in tongues isn't related to the language "control center" in the brain. And, given the uniqueness of each individual's brain patterns and processes, it probably is the case that some people will perceive the phenomena differently than others; even within their own mind.

For myself I'm kind of put off when someone seems to be saying, "Turn God on, now turn God off..." My feelings probably wrap more around motivation than the phenomenon itself. I mean no direspect to those who might be saying, "Speak in tongues..." and such. They may be simply trying to pull the minds of a group of fuzzy headed strangers into the same room. No harm there, I suppose. It just can feel like an odd way to get everybody on the same page, at least to many people.

This is largely my own position; with the exception of congregational speaking in tongues for personal benefit (this is done quietly or silently), and out loud by two or three - for the benefit of the body through interpretation, it should not be happening in a public assembly of believers. It seems quite clear.

I am in minority on this - I know - yet I have heard no other sensical interpretation of scripture, and that is the primary consideration.

It's important to match our experience to the scriptures - not vice versa. It seems on this topic people will often describe their experience and what happened in some particular instance... with all due respect, that is of little interest, we already know that believers can and do misuse the gifts - there is biblical precident for that.

I agree CC1.