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Scott Hutchinson 09-19-2007 07:18 PM
What Does God Foreknow ?
 
And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God,to those who are the called according to His purpose.For whom He foreknew ,He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son,that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.ROM.8:28,29 NKJV
What does God foreknow about those whom He foreordained to be conformed to the image of Jesus Christ ?
Or what exactly does know before hand about those in His Church ?

Scott Hutchinson 09-19-2007 07:42 PM
Bump for the scholars.

Praxeas 09-19-2007 07:47 PM
All things or whatever He wants perhaps?

Scott Hutchinson 09-19-2007 07:49 PM
PRAX He also knows who will or who will not come to faith in Him ? Do you think so ?

ReformedDave 09-19-2007 09:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson (Post 245646)
PRAX He also knows who will or who will not come to faith in Him ? Do you think so ?
If He knows someone will come to Him, can they not??????

crakjak 09-19-2007 09:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReformedDave (Post 245714)
If He knows someone will come to Him, can they not??????
They can not, not!:sshhh:killinme

mizpeh 09-21-2007 06:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson (Post 245624)
And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God,to those who are the called according to His purpose.For whom He foreknew ,He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son,that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.ROM.8:28,29 NKJV
What does God foreknow about those whom He foreordained to be conformed to the image of Jesus Christ ?
Or what exactly does know before hand about those in His Church ?
God foreknows EVERYTHING.

He knows the end from the beginning. Isaiah 46:10
Known to God are all his works from the foundation of the world. Acts 15:18

mizpeh 09-21-2007 06:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReformedDave (Post 245714)
If He knows someone will come to Him, can they not??????
No, they cannot but come to him. It's like if you had the ability to look ino the future and you foreknew that the Red Sox would win the World Series this year. Will your foreknowledge prevent Boston from taking the trophy? Nope.

The next question would be What if someone orchestrated a win by bribing the other team to not play well? Somehow they influenced the outcome is it then foreknowledge and predestination by foreknowledge OR is it foreknowledge by predestination?

Dan 5:23 ...; and the God who holds your breath in His hand and owns all your ways, you have not glorified. NKJV

mfblume 09-21-2007 10:47 AM
God foreknows all those who will CHOOSE to love Him.

Quote:
Rom 8:28-29 KJV And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. (29) For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
The "FOR" in verse 29 is saying that whatever was said beforehand is true BECAUSE of the words to follow. And the words that follow "FOR" say that God Foreknew people whom He predestinates to be conformed to Christ's image. Since this explains why the previous verse is true, then we know that he predestinates the ones who choose to love Him.

So... the passage is saying...

All things work together for good to them that love God. Why? Because the ones whom He foreknows are predestinated to be conformed to His image. The only way this can make sense is to realize the ones foreknown in verse 29 are only THEM THAT LOVE GOD in verse 28. The reason all things work together for good for these folks is because God predestinates them, and them only, to be conformed to Christ's image. The "GOOD" to which all things work together is the predestination into Christ's image.

But His foreknowledge does not cause them to be predestinated. Since we read He foreknows those who LOVE HIM, then the love for Him is chosen by those people of their own free will.

mfblume 09-21-2007 11:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mizpeh (Post 246731)
God foreknows EVERYTHING.

He knows the end from the beginning. Isaiah 46:10
Known to God are all his works from the foundation of the world. Acts 15:18
Yes, but in the context of Rom 8:29, the specific issue is that God onlly foreknows those who Love Him in verse 28, if one is wishing to know who is foreknown to be conformed to Christ's image in association with foreknowledge.

Michael The Disciple 09-21-2007 01:33 PM
Who comes to Jesus?

37: All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. John 6:37

Those who the Father gives Christ.

Why do they come?

44: No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. John 6:44

They come because they are DRAWN TO COME.

ReformedDave 09-21-2007 09:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfblume (Post 246871)
God foreknows all those who will CHOOSE to love Him.



The "FOR" in verse 29 is saying that whatever was said beforehand is true BECAUSE of the words to follow. And the words that follow "FOR" say that God Foreknew people whom He predestinates to be conformed to Christ's image. Since this explains why the previous verse is true, then we know that he predestinates the ones who choose to love Him.

So... the passage is saying...

All things work together for good to them that love God. Why? Because the ones whom He foreknows are predestinated to be conformed to His image. The only way this can make sense is to realize the ones foreknown in verse 29 are only THEM THAT LOVE GOD in verse 28. The reason all things work together for good for these folks is because God predestinates them, and them only, to be conformed to Christ's image. The "GOOD" to which all things work together is the predestination into Christ's image.

But His foreknowledge does not cause them to be predestinated. Since we read He foreknows those who LOVE HIM, then the love for Him is chosen by those people of their own free will.
If He predestines according to one's choosing of Him there is little left to predestinate.

mizpeh 09-21-2007 11:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfblume (Post 246881)
Yes, but in the context of Rom 8:29, the specific issue is that God onlly foreknows those who Love Him in verse 28, if one is wishing to know who is foreknown to be conformed to Christ's image in association with foreknowledge.
28And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethern.

For those he called according to his purpose he did foreknow.....I replaced whom with those he called according to his purpose from vs 28. Because being called according to his purpose implies a foreknowledge and designed plan.

So instead of the word, whom, standing for only the ones he foreknew he predestinated to be conformed, as if there were some folks God did not foreknow and therefore could not predestinate these men, now, the word, whom, in context stands for those whom he called according to his foreknowledge. This phrasing doesn't limit God's foreknowledge to just the ones who love him.

mizpeh 09-21-2007 11:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReformedDave (Post 247344)
If He predestines according to one's choosing of Him there is little left to predestinate.
He predestinates, determines in advance, according to his foreknowledge of those that will choose Him.

mfblume 09-22-2007 11:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mizpeh (Post 247413)
28And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethern.

For those he called according to his purpose he did foreknow.....I replaced whom with those he called according to his purpose from vs 28. Because being called according to his purpose implies a foreknowledge and designed plan.

So instead of the word, whom, standing for only the ones he foreknew he predestinated to be conformed, as if there were some folks God did not foreknow and therefore could not predestinate these men, now, the word, whom, in context stands for those whom he called according to his foreknowledge. This phrasing doesn't limit God's foreknowledge to just the ones who love him.
I think you missed my point: God only foreknows those who love Him IN RELATION TO WHOM HE PREDESTINATES to be conformed, and those for whom all things work together for good.

mfblume 09-22-2007 11:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReformedDave (Post 247344)
If He predestines according to one's choosing of Him there is little left to predestinate.
So be it. :) Again, remember it is ONLY talking about predestinating in order to be conformed to Christ's image in Romans 8.

Felicity 09-22-2007 11:48 AM
What does God foreknow?

God foreknows everything because He's God!! Duh. :)


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