"The Giant Sucking Sound"
 

As Ross (Can't win, but I will run anyway) Perot said back in 1992 "NAFTA will create a giant sucking sound" as USA jobs go south to Mexico.

So will the passing of Resolution 4 cause "a giant sucking sound" as ministers that feel betrayed by the org. leave the UPC for other orgs. or the vast world of Good Independent Brethren. (GIBs).

Now I find that interesting that brethren would feel betrayed by the org when they have not been forced to do anything.

Nothing whatsoever changes for those who do not want to use the medium.

For many I believe it is an issue of not wanting to be identified with this medium in any way... especially organizationally.

Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh....

I see that... a little...

Imagine a pastor that has been totally against the use of TV and a non church going friend tells him that they saw an ad to "visit the United Pentecostal Church near you".

And he knows that his money has help pay for the ad.

If you identify yourself as "UPCI" and they stand for something which you are vehemently against... how does that make you look?

Just asking questions... not challenging you...

How will his money pay for the ad?

Is the org going to make it's own ads?

What if their pastor stays in the UPC and they leave?
Would they be disobeying the one with the rule in their lives?

Relax.

I didn't take it as a challenge. :D

Why wouldn't the org. want to make their own ads?

Amen, Brother, AMEN.

MY OPINION.

Anytime the pastor takes a turn from the "old paths" :D HE opens the door.

Folks are not obligated to support false doctrine or worldliness.

True...

Yes sir...

But, then again, right or wrong... when there is a split both sides feel this way about the other side.

So... it is a hard thing.

You misunderstood my question Old Paths,

I was referencing the Pastor's Pastor.

On an even more primal level than "God is Love"... some of us have the assumption that "God is consistent".

If an organization claims to follow God, one would expect them to constantly be striving for that Godly consistency.

Some of us question those that do not strive for consistency. Either ALL technology is acceptable... or NONE of it is. The content currently available on a medium is irrelevent.

The UPC has done something that even I can respect. They took one step closer to consistency and I applaud them for it... and I also applaud the brave men who voted for it.

I can see in some UPC churches saints that have held their convictions about tv as pastors changed from time to time LEAVING when the pastor goes from silence about tv, to actively promoting tv.

You have to apply principle somehow. You mean to tell me just because I would buy a car from somebody means that I agree with everything they stand for? What is the difference?

If Shelti is for it I'm automatically against it.


J/K

:D

I do think that buying a car from a stranger and church leadership is a tad different.

:D

SD,
I appreciate the positive tone and your confidence that "God is consistent". He did seem to be pretty clear when he included the inspiration that gave us the English words "For I the LORD, I change not"

What does strike me as a "head scratcher" is how you think an ORGANIZATION is anything other than a plurality of individuals.

Your post included:
If an organization claims to follow God, one would expect them to constantly be striving for that Godly consistency.
Consistency is only upheld by individuals. No organization that involves a plurality of minds and thoughts can act with consistency in all things.

The most consistent thing an organization does is act in a manner to perpetuate its existence. Beyond that, all bets for consistency are off.

Very good.

They are a plurality of individuals with written rules that are not consistent with one another. The very "mission statement" of the UPC conflicted with their stance on television. I do believe an organization has the ability to STRIVE to be consistent. I used the word STRIVE in the post you quoted on purpose... I agree that no individual or organization can be completely consistent, but they should be striving for it.

Sheltie,

While I understand what you are saying... it is theologically incorrect to assume that God is consistent... the correct assumption or assertion is that God is Sovereign. That is where most of us get into trouble as we question God and put logical limitations on a Sovereign creator.

When read the title of this thread I thought it meant this kind of noise-:bigbaby

If He isn't, then He isn't what I am looking for... and that is a deal-breaker for me... are you saying that I am holding God to too high of a standard? :D

You just made my sig-line... (I know that is such an honor. lol)

So Phil,
The Lord your God, changes?

You know that is not what I am accusing you of. I am saying that your definition of consistency may not fit with His absolute Sovereignty. False doctrines are usually born out of a failure to acknowledge that God and the written Testimony of God is ALWAYS right... even when it disagrees with our personal sensibilities or definitions of consistency.:D

Glad I could contribute to your sig... at least it might make some folks stop and think!:)

It goes like this: “True we don’t believe in the viewing of TV for moral purposes, however, we are doing our best to let the community know who we are what we believe.
Furthermore, if Hollywood can use this to captivate the minds of the public, surely we can use it to spread the gospel.”
This is how you explain the use of it and not viewing it.

Nope but he is not subject to your definition of consistency either. :D

Have at it, if that's what you want to do,:D but I will remain the consistant, stick in the mud, anti Hellywood, non tv watcher.

con·sis·tent (kən-sĭs'tənt)
adj.
In agreement; compatible: The testimony was consistent with the known facts.
Being in agreement with itself; coherent and uniform: a consistent pattern of behavior.
Reliable; steady: demonstrated a consistent ability to impress the critics.
Mathematics. Having at least one common solution, as of two or more equations or inequalities.
Holding true as a group; not contradictory: a consistent set of statements.

Phil,

What you are saying is that whenever things don't add up, it is because we are limited by our human understanding of what we think is right... so by this logic, the next time a Moonie tries to hand me a flower, I should follow him into that belief system even though it goes against my own logic.

help me out.
What is MY definition of consistency?

I agree with all of those definitions.... if there were 19234232 inconsistent things within the organization and now there are 19234231, then they are moving towards consistency. :)

but then you using the Internet = inconsistant...

you are only going to be inconsistant when you start banning things... By and large, the fewer rules you have, the more consistant you are...

Nope... What i am saying is that God is consistent in that he is in agreement with himself and not subject to your definitions or expectations. he is in agreement with His word but not necessarily yours. He is supreme and ALWAYS right. A Moonie is NOT God neither am I or you. God is a Spirit and is present and available to those who will receive him but he is never subject to man.

If I held to the view that God must be consistent according to man's logic or definition I would have quit a long time ago because God has dealt with situations inconsistently based on my view of things. I am not shaken with the appearance of inconsistency because I have faith that He is in agreement with Himself and I simply need to walk in that faith to see the end of the thing!

My point is that it doesn't matter what your definition of consistency is. HE is sovereign and is NOT subject to it whether yours is right or wrong.

I think we have lost sight of the sovereignty of God and in the process we have made HIM subject to us in our minds.

I get what you are saying a whole lot better since your last post directed toward SD.

I am not looking to make God not change per my definition of not changing.

IMO, I think your contribution to the whole 'consistency' idea that SD has raised does posess godly wisdom.

Thanks for sharing them.

:reaper

Not a chance in the place that burneth with fire and brimstone will we lose more then we will gain.

There is a HUGE influx of men in the ALJC that were just waiting on this to pass.