Originally Posted by Pastor Poster (Post 256701)

I appreciate you, and wish you would stay.

I have not been around as long as you have, but I can understand the sense of vestment you have felt toward the organization, and how hurt you must be at the direction we have taken.

I wish you nothing but the richest favor of God.

PP

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea (Post 256704)

I can understand, also, how difficult this must be on those who have invested their tears, sweat, finances, time and lives into the organization. I'm sure they will prayerfully make the proper decisions and do what their conscience dictates.

Originally Posted by Praxeas (Post 256740)

I don't understand it....well first of all I don't understand such an emotional attachment to an organization of men that was meant to unify us to be stronger so we can spread the Apostolic message everywhere. This resolution does not change that at all. If anything it enhances it. The org though became more about control then it did about unifying to spread the gospel.

I think we lost sight of what the organization was supposed to be to begin with. We looked at the org as a means of controlling others. We grew an organization rather than allowing the organization to facilitate spreading the word. As a result we fell way behind other orgs like the AOG. We worried more about growing the organization, adding more rules to it. We worried about politics. We failed to understand what the organization was for to begin with.

My oppinion

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster (Post 256701)

I appreciate you, and wish you would stay.

I have not been around as long as you have, but I can understand the sense of vestment you have felt toward the organization, and how hurt you must be at the direction we have taken.

I wish you nothing but the richest favor of God.

PP

Originally Posted by Kansas Preacher (Post 256816)

Pastor Poster,

Thank you for your very kind words. I just recieved a VERY touching phone call from a long-time friend who said many of the same things. I assure you this is NOT a "knee-jerk" reaction.

For the sake of those who do not read "Thad's Tab," I will give a little more insight into my personal decision by posting here what I posted there. The thread stated that I had promised to "leave as soon as it passed." Furthermore, someone stated they "hoped I DID leave." Here is my response.

-----------------------

For those who "hope" I will leave, you will get your wish.

Thad, I NEVER said, "as soon as it passes." I only stated that I WILL leave. That is my intention. I have been telling that the easiest way to leave is to let your dues lapse. It requires no action on the part of the District Board. It is just automatic. My plan has been to let that process work. My dues are paid through the end of the year. That would mean I won't be dropping out until the first of the year.

I have been reconsidering, however. I have been watching the UPCI drift towards liberalism for many years. (I prayed through in a United Pentecostal Church more than 35 years ago, and have been licensed/ordained for more than 25 of those years.) It has grieved me, but I have been unable to stop it. Yesterday, with the passage of Resolution 4, something in me died. This whole process has been, for me, like watching a loved one with a terminal disease. Even though you know it's coming, you still don't cherish the fact that they finally passed away. The problem for me now is, if I wait until my dues lapse, I won't be able to "bury" this loved one for three more months. In other words, there will be no "closure" for me until I am out of the organization.

I have wept genuine tears. I have been heartbroken. I do not rejoice that I am leaving (although others evidently ARE rejoicing over that fact). Nevertheless, it is something I feel I MUST do.

For those who are interested, I posted the following on another forum. I will "cut and paste" for the benefit of those who "hope" I leave.


I will not leave with a bad spirit. I will not leave with a rotten attitude. I will not go out "bashing" the UPC. I want to retain the fond memories I have. The UPC has been GOOD to me in MANY ways. I have served in positions from the sectional level to the national level (as a member of the General Board). I want to remember it for the good it has done. I will not criticize those who remain in. (In fact, I have counseled young men NOT to jump because others are.)

I see it like this: If I leave now, I can do so with a right spirit and attitude. If I wait, I may grow bitter. That's a chance I am not willing to take.

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea (Post 256825)

Will Wholehearted take the same approach?

Originally Posted by Kansas Preacher (Post 256816)

Pastor Poster,

Thank you for your very kind words. I just recieved a VERY touching phone call from a long-time friend who said many of the same things. I assure you this is NOT a "knee-jerk" reaction.

For the sake of those who do not read "Thad's Tab," I will give a little more insight into my personal decision by posting here what I posted there. The thread stated that I had promised to "leave as soon as it passed." Furthermore, someone stated they "hoped I DID leave." Here is my response.

-----------------------

For those who "hope" I will leave, you will get your wish.

Thad, I NEVER said, "as soon as it passes." I only stated that I WILL leave. That is my intention. I have been telling that the easiest way to leave is to let your dues lapse. It requires no action on the part of the District Board. It is just automatic. My plan has been to let that process work. My dues are paid through the end of the year. That would mean I won't be dropping out until the first of the year.

I have been reconsidering, however. I have been watching the UPCI drift towards liberalism for many years. (I prayed through in a United Pentecostal Church more than 35 years ago, and have been licensed/ordained for more than 25 of those years.) It has grieved me, but I have been unable to stop it. Yesterday, with the passage of Resolution 4, something in me died. This whole process has been, for me, like watching a loved one with a terminal disease. Even though you know it's coming, you still don't cherish the fact that they finally passed away. The problem for me now is, if I wait until my dues lapse, I won't be able to "bury" this loved one for three more months. In other words, there will be no "closure" for me until I am out of the organization.

I have wept genuine tears. I have been heartbroken. I do not rejoice that I am leaving (although others evidently ARE rejoicing over that fact). Nevertheless, it is something I feel I MUST do.

For those who are interested, I posted the following on another forum. I will "cut and paste" for the benefit of those who "hope" I leave.


I will not leave with a bad spirit. I will not leave with a rotten attitude. I will not go out "bashing" the UPC. I want to retain the fond memories I have. The UPC has been GOOD to me in MANY ways. I have served in positions from the sectional level to the national level (as a member of the General Board). I want to remember it for the good it has done. I will not criticize those who remain in. (In fact, I have counseled young men NOT to jump because others are.)

I see it like this: If I leave now, I can do so with a right spirit and attitude. If I wait, I may grow bitter. That's a chance I am not willing to take.

Originally Posted by Brett Prince (Post 256811)

Prax, respectfully, I think you miss the point.

Men have placed great sweat, tears, blood, energy, money, etc., into camp grounds, Bible colleges, church buildings, all the time believing that they were giving to something they believed in ardently. Now, they feel that all their work has been hijacked, or that their father's and mother's work, or their old pastor's work, has been hijacked, and now all of these assets to the Kingdom is being handed over to those who don't hold to the values that they hold to. It feels like theft. It makes them feel violated. It is NOT the org. It is what they have put INTO the org, and cannot have if they leave. If they want to keep the use of these things, they have to be willing to be part of something that believes differently than they--that has a lifestyle different from their own. They see the path now towards even more things that they don't believe in. It hurts them deeply.

These are good men. These are men who have preached a message that you have received, and likely would have never found had they not. These are men who had little chance for education but wanted better for the next generation of preachers. Some of these know what it is like to sleep in a tent, set on a rough hewn pew, and sweat with air conditioning, but through their labor of love--in their olden age they were going to enjoy something better, and their children, both physically and spiritually would do the same.

But, I am almost certain that these men will walk away, heads held high, a tear in their eye, and with a heavy heart--but they will not attempt to destroy that which they have loved. I believe they will go in peace. And, may the Lord richly bless them. They are MEN.

Sorry to wax so passionate, but this is a day that shall be long remembered. I choose to stay, but my hat is off to those who helped make us what we are, but who will no longer be among us. I am saddened, but I am encouraged by their strength and conviction.

Originally Posted by Kansas Preacher (Post 256816)

Pastor Poster,

Thank you for your very kind words. I just recieved a VERY touching phone call from a long-time friend who said many of the same things. I assure you this is NOT a "knee-jerk" reaction.

For the sake of those who do not read "Thad's Tab," I will give a little more insight into my personal decision by posting here what I posted there. The thread stated that I had promised to "leave as soon as it passed." Furthermore, someone stated they "hoped I DID leave." Here is my response.

-----------------------

For those who "hope" I will leave, you will get your wish.

Thad, I NEVER said, "as soon as it passes." I only stated that I WILL leave. That is my intention. I have been telling that the easiest way to leave is to let your dues lapse. It requires no action on the part of the District Board. It is just automatic. My plan has been to let that process work. My dues are paid through the end of the year. That would mean I won't be dropping out until the first of the year.

I have been reconsidering, however. I have been watching the UPCI drift towards liberalism for many years. (I prayed through in a United Pentecostal Church more than 35 years ago, and have been licensed/ordained for more than 25 of those years.) It has grieved me, but I have been unable to stop it. Yesterday, with the passage of Resolution 4, something in me died. This whole process has been, for me, like watching a loved one with a terminal disease. Even though you know it's coming, you still don't cherish the fact that they finally passed away. The problem for me now is, if I wait until my dues lapse, I won't be able to "bury" this loved one for three more months. In other words, there will be no "closure" for me until I am out of the organization.

I have wept genuine tears. I have been heartbroken. I do not rejoice that I am leaving (although others evidently ARE rejoicing over that fact). Nevertheless, it is something I feel I MUST do.

For those who are interested, I posted the following on another forum. I will "cut and paste" for the benefit of those who "hope" I leave.


I will not leave with a bad spirit. I will not leave with a rotten attitude. I will not go out "bashing" the UPC. I want to retain the fond memories I have. The UPC has been GOOD to me in MANY ways. I have served in positions from the sectional level to the national level (as a member of the General Board). I want to remember it for the good it has done. I will not criticize those who remain in. (In fact, I have counseled young men NOT to jump because others are.)

I see it like this: If I leave now, I can do so with a right spirit and attitude. If I wait, I may grow bitter. That's a chance I am not willing to take.

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster (Post 256838)

He most certainly is UPC and has said he will leave.

So regrettable.

Originally Posted by Kansas Preacher (Post 256816)

Pastor Poster,

Thank you for your very kind words. I just recieved a VERY touching phone call from a long-time friend who said many of the same things. I assure you this is NOT a "knee-jerk" reaction.

For the sake of those who do not read "Thad's Tab," I will give a little more insight into my personal decision by posting here what I posted there. The thread stated that I had promised to "leave as soon as it passed." Furthermore, someone stated they "hoped I DID leave." Here is my response.

-----------------------

For those who "hope" I will leave, you will get your wish.

Thad, I NEVER said, "as soon as it passes." I only stated that I WILL leave. That is my intention. I have been telling that the easiest way to leave is to let your dues lapse. It requires no action on the part of the District Board. It is just automatic. My plan has been to let that process work. My dues are paid through the end of the year. That would mean I won't be dropping out until the first of the year.

I have been reconsidering, however. I have been watching the UPCI drift towards liberalism for many years. (I prayed through in a United Pentecostal Church more than 35 years ago, and have been licensed/ordained for more than 25 of those years.) It has grieved me, but I have been unable to stop it. Yesterday, with the passage of Resolution 4, something in me died. This whole process has been, for me, like watching a loved one with a terminal disease. Even though you know it's coming, you still don't cherish the fact that they finally passed away. The problem for me now is, if I wait until my dues lapse, I won't be able to "bury" this loved one for three more months. In other words, there will be no "closure" for me until I am out of the organization.

I have wept genuine tears. I have been heartbroken. I do not rejoice that I am leaving (although others evidently ARE rejoicing over that fact). Nevertheless, it is something I feel I MUST do.

For those who are interested, I posted the following on another forum. I will "cut and paste" for the benefit of those who "hope" I leave.


I will not leave with a bad spirit. I will not leave with a rotten attitude. I will not go out "bashing" the UPC. I want to retain the fond memories I have. The UPC has been GOOD to me in MANY ways. I have served in positions from the sectional level to the national level (as a member of the General Board). I want to remember it for the good it has done. I will not criticize those who remain in. (In fact, I have counseled young men NOT to jump because others are.)

I see it like this: If I leave now, I can do so with a right spirit and attitude. If I wait, I may grow bitter. That's a chance I am not willing to take.

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster (Post 256867)

Brother Riggen,

Where did all of the Kansas men who left us a few years ago go? Did they all go independent, or did they join another org? Will you fellowship with them?

Originally Posted by Rico (Post 256871)

Brother, you don't know me and I don't know you, but I will tell you this much: nothing is stopping you from staying. You have the right to change your mind, even though you said you would leave. The UPCI is more than this issue with tv. It's just that this tv issue has been dominating things for a few years. It's been decided that those who choose to can adverstise their church on television. You don't have to agree with that decision, but you don't have to let it run you out of the organization either.

Originally Posted by Kansas Preacher (Post 256907)

It is not JUST the "TV thing." As I stated elsewhere, this was just the "last straw" for me. It was a BIG issue to me BEFORE I became licensed. It remains a BIG issue. However, it is not the ONLY issue. I know that no one is forcing me out in a literal sense. As I've said before, so say I now again, this is NOT a "knee-jerk reaction." I've had an entire year to decide how I would deal with it. This is the decision I have reached, and I believe it to be best for me and the church I pastor.

Originally Posted by Rico (Post 256911)

Well, do what you gotta do, Brother. My gut feeling is that another organization is going to be the result of people leaving the UPC. We shall see how this all plays out.

Originally Posted by Kansas Preacher (Post 256940)

I'm not interested in another organization. In fact, I have no plans to EVER join one. I will remain independent. I truly believe that is what God wants for me.

Originally Posted by CC1 (Post 256979)

Perhaps when the dust settles this will be best for everyone involved as you can't have an organization being pulled in two different directions.

Those who freak out at image magnification on video screens at conferences and the thought of utilizing technology in outreach have been unhappy for a very long time (as Kansas Preacher says he has been and I am sure many more).

The Kansas contingent of UPC has been so conservative he will be the second DS in modern times to go from heading up the UPC in his district / state to ditching it.

If the UPC is smart they will recruit some moderates to go into Kansas and start Home Missions churches in the major urban areas and larger towns to build a UPC presence there that will be moderate enough to not be ditching the Mothership every few years because they think it is too lib.

I find it ironic and rather funny that Kansas Preacher has stated that the previous bunch that left don't have much to do with him because he didn't leave when they did. The ultra cons don't even get along with each other!

Originally Posted by Kansas Preacher (Post 256940)

I'm not interested in another organization. In fact, I have no plans to EVER join one. I will remain independent. I truly believe that is what God wants for me.

Originally Posted by Kansas Preacher (Post 256816)

Pastor Poster,

Thank you for your very kind words. I just recieved a VERY touching phone call from a long-time friend who said many of the same things. I assure you this is NOT a "knee-jerk" reaction.

For the sake of those who do not read "Thad's Tab," I will give a little more insight into my personal decision by posting here what I posted there. The thread stated that I had promised to "leave as soon as it passed." Furthermore, someone stated they "hoped I DID leave." Here is my response.

-----------------------

For those who "hope" I will leave, you will get your wish.

Thad, I NEVER said, "as soon as it passes." I only stated that I WILL leave. That is my intention. I have been telling that the easiest way to leave is to let your dues lapse. It requires no action on the part of the District Board. It is just automatic. My plan has been to let that process work. My dues are paid through the end of the year. That would mean I won't be dropping out until the first of the year.

I have been reconsidering, however. I have been watching the UPCI drift towards liberalism for many years. (I prayed through in a United Pentecostal Church more than 35 years ago, and have been licensed/ordained for more than 25 of those years.) It has grieved me, but I have been unable to stop it. Yesterday, with the passage of Resolution 4, something in me died. This whole process has been, for me, like watching a loved one with a terminal disease. Even though you know it's coming, you still don't cherish the fact that they finally passed away. The problem for me now is, if I wait until my dues lapse, I won't be able to "bury" this loved one for three more months. In other words, there will be no "closure" for me until I am out of the organization.

I have wept genuine tears. I have been heartbroken. I do not rejoice that I am leaving (although others evidently ARE rejoicing over that fact). Nevertheless, it is something I feel I MUST do.

For those who are interested, I posted the following on another forum. I will "cut and paste" for the benefit of those who "hope" I leave.


I will not leave with a bad spirit. I will not leave with a rotten attitude. I will not go out "bashing" the UPC. I want to retain the fond memories I have. The UPC has been GOOD to me in MANY ways. I have served in positions from the sectional level to the national level (as a member of the General Board). I want to remember it for the good it has done. I will not criticize those who remain in. (In fact, I have counseled young men NOT to jump because others are.)

I see it like this: If I leave now, I can do so with a right spirit and attitude. If I wait, I may grow bitter. That's a chance I am not willing to take.

Originally Posted by lovemyjesus (Post 257086)

I like that attitude and let me tell you that it's definitely the right attitude for all of us to have. Some will stay (no intention of leaving) and grow bitter though all of this and others will wait (not really wanting to stay) and grow bitter because of it.

I'm sorry that all of this ever happened. I'm truly sickened by ALL that TV has to offer. I can't imagine how a holy people of GOD could claim to think that we're actually doing good by this TV resolution, when all we're doing is blending with the world.

I've got too much to say about TV so I better "git while the gittin's good."

Originally Posted by lovemyjesus (Post 257086)

I like that attitude and let me tell you that it's definitely the right attitude for all of us to have. Some will stay (no intention of leaving) and grow bitter though all of this and others will wait (not really wanting to stay) and grow bitter because of it.

I'm sorry that all of this ever happened. I'm truly sickened by ALL that TV has to offer. I can't imagine how a holy people of GOD could claim to think that we're actually doing good by this TV resolution, when all we're doing is blending with the world.

I've got too much to say about TV so I better "git while the gittin's good."

Originally Posted by Steve Epley (Post 257242)

Kansas Preacher you did NOT leave them they left you.

Originally Posted by Kansas Preacher (Post 257299)

You are SO right, Elder. You are SO right.

Originally Posted by Thad (Post 257328)

unlike the libs and mods here ,I am one who does not believe that TV ministry is the end all the great revival. i still believe it comes from old fashioned fasting, hunbling, shutting in, etc. something we are ALL lacking including myself. BUT, I'm also for freedom in the local assembly. If a pastor wants to try that out, let 'em!!! how is that going to effect my life??? why do i need to have a cardiac arrest over it?? only 5% will even be able to afford to advertise~!! that means 95% wont be . some folk act like everyone is suddenly going to out and start looking like jezebel !

Originally Posted by Thad (Post 257328)

unlike the libs and mods here ,I am one who does not believe that TV ministry is the end all the great revival. i still believe it comes from old fashioned fasting, hunbling, shutting in, etc. something we are ALL lacking including myself. BUT, I'm also for freedom in the local assembly. If a pastor wants to try that out, let 'em!!! how is that going to effect my life??? why do i need to have a cardiac arrest over it?? only 5% will even be able to afford to advertise~!! that means 95% wont be . some folk act like everyone is suddenly going to out and start looking like jezebel !

Originally Posted by triumphant1 (Post 257347)

Oh shut up...I don't know of a lib or a mod on this forum that believes TV is the end all to great revival...it is a tool...but no one thinks it replaces prayer and fasting and one on one evangelism...

Thad, this is a deceptive mantra and a false perception...Do you really think that AM is going to go back home and tell his church, "Folks, we can stop the 40 year old prayer chain now. And we can stop having ouotr annual 30 day fast. And we can convert the prayer rooms into coffee shops. We can stop all bible studies Bro. Larry. Because we now can run TV commercials we don;t have to do anything else...

Ignorant....

Originally Posted by CC1 (Post 257350)

Misrepresnting is Thad's style. Just SOP for him. I don't why he can't just state his reasons for opposing res 4 without grossly misrepresenting the people on the other side of the issue.

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea (Post 256825)

Will Wholehearted take the same approach?