Ouestion for those staying in the UPC
 

If the UPC reverts back to the 'merger agreement' where two different plans of salvation are preached and believed would you stay? To clarify the PCI men preached Acts 2:38 so fervently most could not tell the difference but bring that position up to date where men would preach openly one could be saved without baptism in Jesus Name and the HGB would you stay?

No.

Haha! Good questions.

The truth is ..... wake up and smell the roses folks ;) :) ..... PCI is still alive and well within the UPC.

I am sad that the UPC took the PAJC path rather than the PCI path, by doing so it has hindered it's growth and purpose in the earth. Men tend to always error to the side of control and dictatorship rather than freedom and individual faith in God.

So then guess this means that if I come you go. :driving

Felicity I think that is very true and is at the root of this issue NOT television advertizing. I think the cons are reading the tea leaves and a step backwards to them is about to occur. I could be entirely wrong but many were upset about the 'bridge building' meeting and comments made there.

Are you saying that you and TB have rejoined? I might have to reconsider?:sshhh:sshhh

Bridge building meeting? Could you elaborate on that? If not here, then PM please.

I can only say that I must teach what is in the Sunday School quarterly.

Haha!

The possibility exists -- of course it does. There were many meetings going on during GC --- all over the place. Not all of them concerned Res. 4.

Hehe. ;)

This meeting took place a few years back in DC the Charisma magazine reported it and it caused an upheaval. Officials of the UPC were there with Trinity 'Pentecostal' groups. Statements were made by JC & NU that upset many.

So true. I have been thinking the same thing.

:yourock

I think I vaguely remember hearing something about it. Don't know what happened or what was said though.

Brother Epley, those Cons that dont like the idea of the UPCI having 2 doctrinal views, came to this some time in the last 30 years or so.

The fact is, the UPCI has always been (from day 1) an organization of men who preach Acts 2:38 but not a group of men who preach the Water Spirit doctrine (which I belive).

It was the ulta cons who wanted to force the PCI doctrine out of the UPCI that worked the change the UPCI.

I am for the UPCI being an organization of men (both PCI and W/S) who seek to share the Gospel and believe that Acts 2:38 is the proper response to the Gospel.

Any conservitive that can work within the framework that was created in 1948 is welcome too.

Bridge building meeting? I never heard about that one, but then I'm wayyyyy behind in the news.

I'm writing this from southern Central America. Hola! :)

Ferd the difference today than 1948 with the original PCI men is they preached Acts 2:38 so fervently most did not know the difference their decendants do not. They BELIEVE what the PCI men believed but the preaching is NOT the same. Would you be comfortable with that??? A UPC in your town preaching a man can be saved without obeying Acts 2:38?

Brother Epley we argee on what PCI means. I've stated my opposition to neuvo-PCI on more than one occasion.

I am for PCI being part of the UPCI. I am NOT for

1. A doctrinal view that the Holy Ghost is purely optional
2. A doctrinal view that allows baptisim in any manner.
3. Allowing men into the UPCI that do not believe in Holiness.

to clarify point 3, Holiness doesnt mean conservitive dress standards. BUT it does mean, that I believe the UPCI is and should remain an orgaizaiton that beleives, teaches, and is committed to Holiness.

The real PCI of old fit that completely. This new fangled mess we are seeing everywhere doesnt. (disclaimer, CC1 your church isnt methodist.)

Ferd this group is not the 1948 group and you are going to have them NOT their fahters. Again hoiw would YOU feel about a UPC church in your city preaching you did not have to obey Acts 2:38 to be saved? That is the question that begs an answer?

Bro. Epley.....

With all respect, the kind of PCIers you're talking about here would probably not be much interested in joining/re-joining the UPCI.

Don't you think?

I don't know if it changed enough they might??? If TB wasn't forced to sign something he did not believe he might reconsider maybe??? And I think there may be others? I could be wrong I was ONCE but it has been so long ago I don't remember what it was about.:hypercoffee

Bro. Epley........

TB signed it before for a few years. We've been in discussion with leadership about this. It seems it might not be much of a problem.

You could always ask your dear wife to remind you... :laffatu

You know we NEVER forget things like that. :lol

Brother E, I think I answered. I dont want the neuvo-PCI crowd. Dont think they belong and I dont think they fit.

I also think, they dont want to belong either.

I am perfectly fine with someone like TB being in the UPCI and in the same town as me.

The clairity comes on the understanding of what we mean by PCI. (I really wish we had a better name for the doctrinal position)

Just so happens that TB prayed a Spanish lady sitting behind us up in the balcony through to speaking in tongues at Gen. Conf. on Sunday night.

Now why would he bother doing that if he doesn't think people NEED this?

Most of the other PAJC (just a guess they were - maybe they weren't really - hehe ;)) preachers were sitting around watching.

Hmmmm..................


:)

I highly respect TB for his honesty and integrity but no I am sorry I could not belong to a group that allowed preacher to preach one could be saved without obeying Acts 2:38. Evidently the UPC is returning to the 'merger agreement' days which many will not be able to tolerate.

Brother Epley, I fully understand your position and your integrity in the matter. You have never been part of an organizaition that did have different views.

The UPCI, however was always this way. it has only been in recent years that this has been an issue. The fact is, the UPCI was designed a certain way. I like the way it was designed and think it ought to remain true to that design.

Are you wanting to go back to the blueprint????????? :eek:

Well, maybe that explains why you were never part of the UPC?

Elder, I only see "one" plan of salvation in the Bible-obedience to Acts 2:38.
Anything less than that is "rolling the dice" with God.

How I see it anyway.

That is the underlying reason. I could NEVER hold license with a group that teaches men could be saved without obeying Acts 2:38 in this dispensation. And many in the UPC was raised the same and were ignorant concerning the toleration of the other view that is just a fact. This is NOT 1948 and most of those men are dead and the emphasis is not the same. If it reverts the defection will be even more. However I guess an organization of some type will already be in place to recieve them?

Ivorytickler, that has always been my driveing obsession.

You have to be saved to identify with Christ and receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, which is given to the SONS of God as an inheritance. I have yet to find a sinner who wanted to be baptized or received the gift of the Holy Ghost. There´s a reason for that! :)

I am staying , I love my church here in Denham Springs (First Pentecostal Church):D

where is that EEEK smiley? LOL!

Preachers have a habit of doing that. Then talking about the person who took the initiative to help the person.

Can you explain to me how someone obeys receiving a gift from someone? The issue is not whether someone believes one should repent and be baptized, but why they should do so. As for the baptism of the Holy Ghost, it´s a gift of spiritual empowerment given to those who walk in obedience to the Word of God not a requirement to enter into a relationship with God. We get that by grace through faith. If the PAJCers would get their theology straightened out it would resolve many of the problems in the UPCI. :)

If nominated I will not run -- if elected I will not serve.

Silly me, I thought it said, "he GIVES the Holy Ghost to them that OBEY Him."
Act 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

And what´s so silly about that? When something is a gift something is given! DUH!

DUH..... you forgot the OBEY portion..... DUH again ........ :saycheese