Why aren't there more African Americans in the UPC or the leadership of the UPC???
 

There is a precious young AA* lady in our church who recently married a PAW fella from out of state and it caused me to ask this question. Why on earth would any AA family with children want to join up with the UPC?

This young lady's mom was an Olympic sprinter and has a college degree, and in my mind would have been a wonderful catch for any man.

You also don't see any (to my knowledge) any AA's in the UPC leadership.

Why is that?



*African American

It has always been a very racist organization. In New Orleans John Cupit has his white church and his black church.
My father was always troubled by the racism in the UPC.

well i obviously cant speak for the organization, but after being around for over 37 years, two observations, most of the upc churches dont have a lot of americans of african descent in them, and also most of the people i know who are americans of african descent go to black pentecostal churches by choice, this is my experience , especially in the south, dt:hypercoffee

The UPC church I attend is pretty much half black & half white.

I was strongly at odds with a few posters here when I suggested that a certain minister on the youth committee would never be the GYD Youth President because the full body of ministers in the UPC would never vote him into that position.

I gave a challenge and am still waiting for these men to answer on one minority, specifically a black man or woman who has been voted in, by the full body of ministers, to a major department position. ie HMD, FMD, General Sup, Asst Sup, GYD YP, Ladies President, etc.

Thus far the silence is deafening . . .

Sunday has always been the most segregated day of the week in America.

By and large, I know pastors that would love to reach out to the AA community but if they do they know they will have a war on their hands in their church. I have seen that happen.

in the beginning the UPCI was a very white organization founded in the midst of a racisit society. Many pastors werent racist but understood that it was just better for the PAW and UPCI to exist beside each other.

in recent years, I believe there have been moves by leadership to correct a lot of that, but we are 40 years behind.

The good news is that there are places like my church where the congregation is very mixed. we are approaching 1/3 white, 1/3 black 1/3 hispanic. We also have a good number of Asians as well. We have a Burmese work that meets seperately at our church that is running 100+. That is by their choice and many of them also come to our regular services.

our church which is in the north has many black members also, and a lot of the churches in the north that i am familiar with have the same thing, i believe all people should be looked at as just that people, regardless of ethnicity, the church of god is just that the church, all of us make up the body, dt:hypercoffee

Why isn't there more white leadership in the PAW and the Apostolic Assemblies?

that is a very good question my friend, and i believe it goes back to choice, there are and will remain organizations that are divided in some way , i was wondering when someone would ask that, dt:hypercoffee

Carp...you need to come out WEST. The churches here are very multi-cultural.

You would need to ask the ministerial brethren why they have not voted more African-Americans in...however, I do not think it all has to do with race. There seems to be more diversity among the General Youth Board then other boards at HQ.

In the little town of Covington TN exists a rarity.

A church founded and pastored by a woman...a white woman. The congregation is and always has been 99-100% black. Its still there. Been there for years. As far as I know, Sis. Dolly Willingham is still pastoring it but she was having some health problems.

No one loves their pastor more than these people. Their services are awesome and they get with it like many white folks can only dream of doing. Its something to see and experience.

Sis. Willingham's deceased husband did not want any part of a black church so he attended the church I went to in nearby Millington.

The Millington church has always been mixed. Its not half and half but it has always had a good number of african americans.

Covington has another UPC church that was all white years ago and remains 99% white to this day. This church existed first and story goes that years ago blacks were not welcome there.

Sis. Willingham, originally out of the Millington church under Pastor Hazel Simpson's ministry, felt a burden for the blacks in the area and began the work in Covington.

Many evangelists have passed through and preached for Sis. Willingham. They all tell stories of awesome revival services and the incredible love and loyalty of a black congregation to a white woman pastor who loves them just as much.

I think this....

There are differences in culture between blacks & whites & hispanics etc. When a church is predominately black, predominately white, predominately hispanic etc then that church more truly reflects the culture of that group.

Now there should be no qualms whatsoever when anyone from another race comes to our churches. If you have a negative feeling when you see someone from another race come into your church then you might want to do a little soul searching.

But to say that it is a "racist" thing for there to be a predominately black church, predominately white church etc is to "pre"judge the situation. (And isn't that the definition of prejudice?)

Blacks may have a church that is predominately their race because they want to worship in the fashion that is most reflective of who they are as a person. They same may go for hispanics, asians, whites etc.

That, in and of itself, is not a problem and does not necessarily denote racism.

The problem comes in when someone from another race walks into your church and you have a problem with that.

For there to be a "black" church and a "white" church in town is not necessarily a sign of racism. It could be no more than a sign of people of varying cultural makeups gathering together with people of like precious faith and who have similar worship styles.

To want churches to combine just because one doesn't like the "segregation" that they think they see is to force 2 distinct cultures to combine and, possibly in the end, lose the uniqueness of both.

very well put my brother, wisdom beyond your years and understanding beyond most people, dt:hypercoffee

Our church is mixed but we live in a very racist area.Not the whites but the blacks.I work some place where its very evident and ugly.Sorry its not all the whites fault.Have you ever considered that an AA might not want to come to your church because you are white? I know you were not the one to enslave their great grandparents but feelings run deep and it takes alot of Holy Ghost to overcome years of hatred and ill feelings.

My BIL and SIL wanted a baby very much and gave money to the childrens home society but in five years never received a baby.She finally called them and threatened with a lawyer.They simply replied "Mrs.Cooper we don't have any white babies to give you and we want to put people in to be raised with their own ethnic culture." She said,"I will get a lawyer if you do not and want a baby no matter what culture it is." In one week they got the baby which is of Cuban parentage.My BIL is dark with black hair and this child is told she looks just like her dad all the time.People are strange and they like to pass along their prejudices.Its not all on the part of "the white people."
I have alot of black girlfriends who quite frankly don't want to attend a predominately white church.I like either because I grew up in an area that
was 90% black.To each his own I say.God knows all things.

amen sis, you have a great church there, good leaders who love all, dt:hypercoffee

:stop

Digging4Truth:

Your views are alarming to me...it's this kind of thinking that has held the organization back tremendously...there's no wisdom here... "black" churches..."white" churches...you've got to be kidding me???

If this attitude wasn't so hurtful, it would be laughable. Generalizations are always just that, but in general, we have not be very welcoming of minorities. I've gone to "work days" at campgrounds and heard ethnic jokes told (from district leaders!)...I've heard district leaders use the "n" word.

Let's get real here...we got a long way to go on this issue...and we will continue to be held back by "black" church - "white" church thinking...

:banghead

Hey, we heard you were coming down for a visit and were looking for you...

I guess OP scared you off!!!LOL

Thanks DT we do.I love it here.The church is fired up and praying.No matter who walks in the door they are welcome.One of the Sisters was traveling on a bus and met a man from Haiti and witnessed to him.He was a pastor.She shared Jesus Name Baptism.He went back to baptise his congregations.Congregations did you catch that? Our pastor is supposed to preach in his city for a conference coming up.She has gotten cancer and this man traveled back to pray with her and attend services here.God is good.
The ladies name is Sis.Charlotte Weber.

I guess it depends who you hang around huh? Who is we?

that is what i am talking about, go church, god bless you,dt:hypercoffee

Good post. In our assembly we have an elder who is pastor over a group of Laotian brothers and sisters. It is one of culture and language. However, we do get together on 'Fellowship Sunday' for worship and a meal.

Do they bring food? Count me in.

Lot's of it!!!!!.......I hate those meals....or is it my lack of control?!

I love egg rolls too bad they are so high calorie.

The reason these situation exist in part is because the AA's want it that way. I know of a UPC church in Madison MS that runs over 400 and is at least 50% AA. You got it all wrong Sandra!!!

The PAW has had 2 White Presiding Bishops in their History.

One of these was in office for several years.

Exactly...by choice. Hence, the reason we have the PAW organization. AA want their own organization. Has nothing to do with racism. The people who yell racism are far more racist than the people they accuse of being racist. My personal opinion based on decades of observation!

I don't have it all wrong....I know this bothered my father. He was on the General Board and heard much. (thats all I will say)

There ya go! Excellent Question!!

There are by far way more AA members and leaders in the UPCI than there are White people in any ethnic organization...PAW's, Apostolica Assembly...etc.

Did you read my last post ??


The PAW has had not One, but 2 WHITE Presiding Bishops in their history.
how many BLACK General supt's Have we had in the UPC ??

What General Board would that be?

Those who think this is just a upc problem have their head in the sand. It's a problem in many, many organizations - especially in the South. It's not just churches, we see it reflected politically as well.

I'm white and I'm a minority in the upc church I pastor out West.

Many times, black people like to worship "with their own people." I only say this, because I've heard it from their mouths. I was recently at a larger church out here, which an AA family had left. They said that "there were not enough black people there." The husband told me that. I found it interesting that 1/3 of the praise singers the last time I visited were AA.

Ummmm....let me guess....ZERO????

Sadly, though, there just haven't been enough black preachers either.

The wrong will only slowly be righted.

In my current fellowship there is no color barrier...thank the Lord.

Regardless, There are still more AA members and leaders/preachers in the UPCI than has ever existed in any of the other ethnic organizations. Period! In my city there is a UPCI church with a white pastor and an AA assistant pastor.

And why is that ? It is historically Proven that whites rarely will sit under black Leadership. how many whites do you see attending a church pastored by a Black Vs. blacks attending and sitting under white leadership?

you still failed to answer my first question

I'm not UPC but I am black and have been to some of the UPC functions in the district in my area. I went to the Sr. camp for 3 nights, what I noticed was that there was about 400 young people and about 20 black young ppl in the bunch. I feel that alot of the young upc white ppl in this district don't know how to talk to black ppl. I guess they think just because someone is black that you have to speak to them differently or something. When the UPC family camp rolled around me and two other black friends from my church went. Sitting on the platform, all we saw were white faces. All the music played during the worship services was southern gospel. I strongly believe that the UPC district in my area has alot of racist ppl in it. The church I attend is a conservative ind. church I'd say that our church is 20% blk and even though my church has had blks attending it since the 80's we still have some racial issues come up. I think may have to do with what part of the country I live in, ppl here afraid of change.

The General Board of the UPC.

Sandra is right!
One of the main reasons I left the UPC was because of RACISM. These men in the GA District would say - What in the world are we gonna do with you? From the DS on down - they would say this to me at EVERY function - "What in the world are we gonna do with you"? I would say - "JUST LEAVE ME ALONE and I WILL BUILD A CHURCH"! They just could NOT do it - they had to keep messing with me until I just left!

Some diliked the fact that we built an International Church with more Africans than Americans. They had no idea how to "deal" with it so they brought a white pastor to town to build a "WHITE" Church - which is a pitiful excuse for a church even today and the UPC there (actually 2 of them) has not had their own building in YEARS!
Our International church there owns much property and has over 500 in it and just remodeled and built on!
The Church I now pastor is an International Church with over 70% Internationals from Jamaica, Haiti, Bahamas, Barbados, Trinidad, Guyana, Antigua, St. Lucia, Ghana, Nigeria, Puerto Rico, Trinidad, Mexico, Brazil, Japan, Korea, England and other nations. We have about 30% White Americans. We are International ON PURPOSE with flags of the nations around the top border of the church. Our Leadership, Elders, Deacons and Department heads reflect DIVERSITY and will reflect more in days to come. My Administrative Assistant is a Black American with Jamaican parents. We do this on purpose!
If you want an International Church or a church that reflects the community - you must put someone on your platform that is of a different color, race or nationality than you! It is not the easiest thing in the world to do - but you get what you put up on the platform!
Some of you wonder why you attract DINGBATS!!!!!!!!!!!!! ROFL!!!!!!!!!! Been there - Done that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL

Actually when I went to Thad's church I was kind of surprised, none of the other UPC churches in Norcal have such a diversity of folks black and white.

I haven't been to a UPC church in SoCal in almost two decades...

Boy, I did my best to get out there. We were having some problems with folks here in our business. I didn't get home til 10pm on Sunday night.