Signs & Wonders
 

I was thinking as I sit here recovering from a broken ankle & pondering things,
if we are supposed to be Apostolic why are there not more divine healings, miracles, signs, & wonders than there is already?

Do we rely to much on modern technology & Modern Medicine?

Do we look to drugs (with my pain killers that I was on@ the beginning of my fall down the stairs I mentioned to a brother that the pills were my-"faith builders!":hypercoffee

Are we not consecrated enough?

Is it not preached enough?

Do we not believe enough?


Anyone want to weigh in on this?

I think that there alot of things that can get in between these things happening. I think tv has as much to do with it and being too judgmental or legalistic. Now I am not calling anyone a legalist or elitist. I just look at the apostles and see what they did and they were also no respector of persons as Jesus was, but today we are. Mods/Libs/Cons/Uc's we are all too busy and if we are not careful we look down on others because we do not agree. Basically I think that we let our problems with our brothers and sisters and our selfish problems get in the way. It seems by what is in the Holy Writ that even though Peter and Paul had problems they never let it divide them. But with us small things cause great canyons between us all. Just my opinion. I feel that if we all calmed down and tried to see thing through the eyes of our counter parts then maybe we could unite better and thus the Sign and Wonders would follow. Everwhere in the Bible were something great happened it was preceeded by unity just as NLYP and others have stated.

prayer, prayer, prayer!!! not enough of it...:snapout

You have a good point. Unity, was a big part of the Apostolic Church.
Mind you they didn't have a million different versions of Christianity either.
Your point about Paul & Peter has merit.

True, so true.
What might those hinderences to prayer be?

Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Simply, I believe we havent preached it enough, studied it enough, and believed it enough.

When we start to do those things more, we'll see more spiritual gifts in operation.

Statements like "we need to pray really hard about this" and "call everyone you know and get them praying!" etc. are interesting. The clear implication is that the more prayer, in quantity (both in time spent, and in the number of people praying) and intensity (pray harder!), the more likely God will answer. (And I mean answer in the obviously hoped for way - a healing or whatever. When God answers "no", well that's another topic!)

But is this really true? I guess we'd need a scientific study to answer definitively, with a control group and so on. But, in your experience: is it true? Does God come through for you more often when you spend more time in intense prayer, and/or get the prayer chain going?

Anybody consider that God chooses those whom He will heal?????

He healed all that came to Him. He's no respecter of persons.

He let a man be crippled for many years just so He could display His glory.

BTW, there was a disciple whom He appeared to love more than the others.

I wonder if it's the sort of praying we're doing, more than how much or how intensely. I know the way I've been praying since coming back to church is quite different than how I used to pray...and far more like how I was praying when I was in a time of intense revival in my life. Right now, the how isn't something I give much though to (until someone posts something like this..lol). I'm flat out desperate. I've gotten myself into a situation that there is absolutely no human way out of, and for sure absolutely no human way out of that *I* could manage to navigate. It's God or go back to where I was, and the "where I was" wouldn't be too kind to me if I went back. Kind of changes how one approaches God. It's let go and let God lift me out of this, w/o fighting or struggling or resisting in ANY way, or be dragged into a place of utter destruction of, at least, my soul. I'm still working on the letting go...

I'll let ya know in the next while if I start seeing any signs or wonders in my life. lol (cuz that'll prove my ponderings doncha know?)

This was my thoughts exactly while perusing this thread.

I guess one has to pray the magic prayer the correct number of times loudly.

God is so not like that...

IMHO

Hi Ron. Others have offered some good thoughts already and from your posts I take you to be a mature believer, so I'm not really too concerned...

... but remember, you took a pretty bad tumble, there's no need to beat yourself up any more than what the stairs did to you. Use the tools and aids for healing that the docs provide. Even when compared to the death rates of the NT times we are doing a lot better at relieving suffering than what the church managed to do then.

Why don't we see more miracles? Well, with the exception of the ministry of Jesus Himself, I think we see the miraculous at about the same rates as the OT and NT peoples did. The book of Acts covers a period of time of over 30 years. Because we can read the whole book in a single night we tend to collapse the timeline.

Unity... a pet subject of mine. And yes, I think the disunity among those who have recieved the revelation of the truth is a prime reason we fail to see the miracles among us as compared to 1) the early church and 20 the early Pentecostal movement. Unity did not preceed great moves of God in the Bible, but it was the very foundation of the moving of the Holy Ghost. Unity was a factor, before, during and after Pentecost. The 2nd great move of the Holy Ghost, at Solomons porch, was based upon the unity of the Body. God operates in a united atmosphere.... where people are in one mind and in... well, one accord.

In the early days of the 2oth Century Pentecostal Movement we see that unity was a very important part. Azusa Street, Topeka, Houston, N. Carolina, and so on would never have happened if there wasn't a united purpose. Even the Welsh Revival was a result of a people united in prayer and seeking the face of God. The Healing Revivals were UNITED REVIVALS. Branham... Coe and scores of others had great success in praying for the sick because there was a united atmosphere and purpose to their meetings.

Hence the problem... Most think to be united, we all dress the same, act the same, believe the same, etc. But that isn't the case. As long as we are human we will have differing views, differing understanding. Unity doesn't require that we all look and act the same. But it requires a united spirit. Like this forum. We all have different views... our nationalities and cultures may differ, even our doctrines may differ, but when someone needs prayer (like I did the other day, and still do), we drop everything and run to unite with the one who needs prayer or encouragement. We unite in prayer (seeking God), in power (recieving God's annointing) and in Purpose (reaching the lost) just as they did at Pentecost. When we unite in prayer as the One Body of Christ and seek God's face as one... we will see the moving of God's Spirit.

There was typo, Stephen. RD meant to say, "I guess one has to pray the magic hair the correct number of times loudly." http://apostolicfriendsforum.com/ima...ons/icon10.gif

The lack of Signs and Wonders is a fruit of where the Apostolic Church of America is today. There is cause and effect in this. Our carnality has caused us to loose sight of the spiritual life, and the effect is that we are found wanting.

Things that are missing in the Church

1. Love
2. Love
3. Love
4. Love
5. Love
6. Love


Get the hint?? ;) The way I see it, we need a very simple rebaptism of the Holy Ghost, because the LOVE of God is shed abroad in our hearts buy the Holy Ghost. Everything in our christian life hinges on Gods Love being present in our hearts. It is not "uncut hair", or "anti beards" that is written in our hearts. It is the Law of the Spirit, which writes Love upon the tables of our heart.

Amen, Brother, Amen

So God lied when he said that "by his stripes Ye are healed"?? I guess some will have to throw that portion of scripture away, because God is sovereign, and his Word is not for all. I wonder how one could truely pray for healing of a crippled in faith if he is unsure. Its the lottery of healing, I guess.

This view is why these discussions cannot be productive for the most part. For some, God is either a liar, or most of Christianity is faithless and without love.



To me, this is just sad.

I don't know why some are healed while others are not. Its an age old question that usually ends with someone pointing a finger at the sick. I read a tract on Devine Healing not long ago, looking for some word of faith that would help me face whats going on with my wife. All I got was reasons people are sick and all pointed to the sick as the one at fault. They didn't believe, has sin in their life or didn't have knowledge. Plain and simple... it is their own fault.

But that isn't the case. Haven't we seen scores of men and women of God sick and even die of their sicknesses? We see rain falling on the just and on the unjust alike. Who knows why some are healed while others are not? No one. Well, no one but God. Jack Coe tried to answer the question, but died of polio. William Branham tried to answer the same question, but died of car accident injuries. Even Paul left a sick Meletus behind. I don't know if there is an answer. However our attitude must be resolute: "Yea, thou He slay me, yet will I trust Him"!

Why not deal with the legitimate question even if you do not like the rough way I presented it.

Does Gods sovereignty mean that he will disavow his Word that is forever settled in heaven, and not heal someone that comes to him in faith? His Word does give promise of healing when it states that:

Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Rom 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

Ecc 3: 1-3 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven: A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted; A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;

My friend, I am with you in saying that I have no answer why some die "unhealed". Does there have to be "fault" distributed during such an occasion? I think not. But I just have not found any scripture that negates the promise of healing.

Actually, the scripture that you refer to does offer a guaranteed healing every time for everyone!

Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. 1 Peter 2:24

But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. Isaiah 53:5

There's no "lottery." Just believe that Jesus Christ died for your sins, and that God raised him from the dead then you shall be healed (saved). Romans 10:9

James 5: 14-15 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him

Luke 11:8-10 I say unto you, Though he will not rise and give him, because he is his friend, yet because of his importunity he will rise and give him as many as he needeth. And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you. For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

Keep asking, Keep seeking, Keep knocking until God answers.

I see absolutely no conflict in the passage and a saint that is full of faith and the Holy Spirit but sick in body - even dying.

It is a message of strength and victorious hope to rest in the sovereignty of God Almighty. I fully understand making our desires known to God, but ultimately our prayer must be "not mine - but thy will be done".

No, Healing is, in fact, a very real promise to every child of God. It was, as you pointed out, purchased for us at Calvary. I realize that the Bible does indicate a lack of faith as a reason for not being healed. But, I also submit there are many, many reasons as well. And there are reasons none of us know and may never know until we get to heaven. I have seen His healing power many times, though, admittedly, not so much as in days gone by. I agree, healing of body mind and soul was purchased at Calvary and nothing in God's Word negates His promise.

If you equate Isaiah 53 only to spiritual, you are missing much of what is there. Look at the new testament fulfillment in action on this verse.

I agree with your bolded part 100%. But the fact is that if you have the Word of God plainly promising your healing, then you HAVE HIS WILL.

It is so funny that Jesus came healing everyone that he touched, yet we in 2007 still question if it is his will to heal.

Someone take Isaiah 53 and study out the greek on it and they will find that Youngs translation is very close to the original in its meaning.


If he bore our sickness and pain, just as he bore our sins for us, why should we continue to bare them??

Hebrew, Matt.

HAHAHA!!! You are correct!

The lack of context is overwhelming.........

Dave,

I can see where a failure to exercise proper theology could result in the arguments that are occurring in this thread. ALL understanding of God must begin with his sovereignty and any subsequent studies of the characteristics of God must stand firmly upon this foundation. A lack of embracing this foundational truth of God results in many problematic doctrines like God is logical or prosperity doctrines and many others.

Another issue that I think causes many to misunderstand the issue of healing is their failure to comprehend the contrasts of the continuums of time and eternity. It is extremely hard for us to really grasp "everywhere and every time present at once..." For God to be concurrently at the beginning and the ending violates our understanding because we are trapped in the continuum of time. He is simultaneously at the point of my sickness and at the place of my recovery, be that at a time of instantaneous healing or when my corruption has put on incorruption.

I am thankful I serve an eternally sovereign God who is fully in control of my life and my faith is fully in Him and what ever happens in my life is right and will work together for my good if I am abiding by the principle of loving God and living as one called according to His purpose.

It is real simple to me.:)

Good post. Very provocative. We do serve a BIG God. One could say that our healing takes place at the same time as our salvation......at death.

I was constrained by time and laziness.

Jesus is the same always, if he healed all that came to him when walking on the earth, he does the same now, only through his Spirit-filled saints. Faith does play a role in everything we receive from Jesus including healing. He hasn't changed. The same principles apply.

As for the man who was crippled and healed, God knows the times and the seasons. The when and the whys. I believe God is no respecter of persons. He doesn't willy nilly pick and chose who to heal and who to save. That's the impression I get from your post when you attribute all healing to God's sovereignity. If anyone comes to Him in faith believing, according to his word, they will be healed. Unless there are other reasons, like Paul's thorn in the flesh. I don't claim to know it all, but I believe God will honor his word if we obey the conditions of his promises.

B-b-but... he turned the water into wine at a wedding when there arose a shortage... We had a shortage at my own wedding, I believed, but no wine.

What gives???

Bro Phil,

I disagree with you. ALL understanding of God must begin with His Word. This is all we have to go on. And if his Word proclaims that he bore our sicknesses on Calvary (as Isa 53 states), would he contradict His Word because of his sovereignty.

This "God is Sovereign and can do as he pleases" mentality has always baffled me. Does the fact that God is sovereign mean that he is willing to oppose His own Word??

The problem as I see it is that some do not see the promise of healing available to all, but only to a selected group. It negates a real prayer of faith from being prayed when one believes this, because the one praying cannot be certain that it is Gods will for healing to occur.