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Nahum 10-20-2007 09:38 PM

The Folly of an Open Mind
 
How many times have you heard the virtues of an open mind extolled?

Seems a lot of folks think an open mind is a great thing. It's as if demanding proof before granting agreement is a bad thing. In fact, if you disagree with any ill-conceived, hair-brained ideas that irrational thinkers pose you are considered "close-minded" and, of course, that is the worst sin imaginable to those with no real core values.

Consider this little truth. If you can't consider the possibility that the idea you are presenting is false, you are the one who is close-minded. Close-minded people are the believers who insist some incredible fantasy is true even when there is a complete lack of evidence to support it.

It is my opinion that those who perpetuate the myth of open-mindedness as a virtue do so hoping that you will fall for false doctrine, wordliness, and outright fiction.

So call me a monolithic skeptic, but I refuse to open my mind to some things. My mind isn't a trash can, and I won't allow anyone to toss garbage in it.

"Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things." Philippians 4:8

Some doctrines are not true, so I refuse to accept them. Some are not genuine in their arguments, so I refuse to listen to them. Some topics are disgusting, so I walk away.

Some thoughts, arguments, and ideas should not be entertained.

Why?

Because a mind is a terrible thing to waste. :hypercoffee

CC1 10-20-2007 09:44 PM

Can't wait to see your treatise about closed mindedness!

Nahum 10-20-2007 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CC1 (Post 276807)
Can't wait to see your treatise about closed mindedness!

I love you too!

I have never, ever asked someone to be "open-minded."

Nahum 10-20-2007 09:51 PM

http://www.just4yucks.com/images/5x/51049.jpg

mizpeh 10-20-2007 09:52 PM

I think demanding proof is a good thing but there are some closeminded people who won't listen even when presented with evidence that what they believe is not true. They would rather stick to traditions like 'I'm a Catholic and I'll be a Catholic until I die. So don't tell me otherwise.' This type of person won't open up their mind even a crack. They aren't noble like the Bereans. This is why closemindedness is frowned upon. IMO

Nahum 10-20-2007 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mizpeh (Post 276821)
I think demanding proof is a good thing but there are some closeminded people who won't listen even when presented with evidence that what they believe is not true. They would rather stick to traditions like 'I'm a Catholic and I'll be a Catholic until I die. So don't tell me otherwise.' This type of person won't open up their mind even a crack. They aren't noble like the Bereans. This is why closemindedness is frowned upon. IMO

I'm open to any truth.

I am closed to any lies.

The difference is proof, evidence, and credibility.

JaneEyre 10-20-2007 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster (Post 276796)
How many times have you heard the virtues of an open mind extolled?

Seems a lot of folks think an open mind is a great thing. It's as if demanding proof before granting agreement is a bad thing. In fact, if you disagree with any ill-conceived, hair-brained ideas that irrational thinkers pose you are considered "close-minded" and, of course, that is the worst sin imaginable to those with no real core values.

Consider this little truth. If you can't consider the possibility that the idea you are presenting is false, you are the one who is close-minded. Close-minded people are the believers who insist some incredible fantasy is true even when there is a complete lack of evidence to support it.

It is my opinion that those who perpetuate the myth of open-mindedness as a virtue do so hoping that you will fall for false doctrine, wordliness, and outright fiction.

So call me a monolithic skeptic, but I refuse to open my mind to some things. My mind isn't a trash can, and I won't allow anyone to toss garbage in it.

"Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things." Philippians 4:8

Some doctrines are not true, so I refuse to accept them. Some are not genuine in their arguments, so I refuse to listen to them. Some topics are disgusting, so I walk away.

Some thoughts, arguments, and ideas should not be entertained.

Why?

Because a mind is a terrible thing to waste. :hypercoffee

The United Methodist Church has as its motto: "Open Minds, Open Hearts, Open Doors"...I personally, think their doors are open a little too wide and I won't expound on that, but you probably know what I mean. I'm certainly not saying stop anyone from coming to your church - but don't acknowledge every lifestyle, etc. as being acceptable.

Nahum 10-20-2007 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaneEyre (Post 276827)
The United Methodist Church has as its motto: "Open Minds, Open Hearts, Open Doors"...I personally, think their doors are open a little too wide and I won't expound on that, but you probably know what I mean.

I think, generally speaking, Christians are much too open to doctrines of men.

We do not think logically and critically. Instead we react emotionally.

Truly Blessed 10-20-2007 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mizpeh (Post 276821)
I think demanding proof is a good thing but there are some closeminded people who won't listen even when presented with evidence that what they believe is not true. They would rather stick to traditions like 'I'm a Catholic and I'll be a Catholic until I die. So don't tell me otherwise.' This type of person won't open up their mind even a crack. They aren't noble like the Bereans. This is why closemindedness is frowned upon. IMO

I agree with you, but do you not think that even within OP ranks it's possible for people to stick to THEIR traditions even when they are presented with evidence that what they have come to accept as truth is not supported in Scripture. I know that I have personally encountered close-mindedness among OP's who didn't care what the evidence to the contrary was. Something had been repeated for so long it had to be the truth!

CC1 10-20-2007 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truly Blessed (Post 276837)
I agree with you, but do you not think that even within OP ranks it's possible for people to stick to THEIR traditions even when they are presented with evidence that what they have come to accept as truth is not supported in Scripture. I know that I have personally encountered close-mindedness among OP's who didn't care what the evidence to the contrary was. Something had been repeated for so long it had to be the truth!

Exactly! So while there is a case to be made that some people become so "open minded" their brains fall out there is also a case to be made that some people are so "close minded" that they cannot deal with reality or grow and mature.

JaneEyre 10-20-2007 10:13 PM

You know what the Chinese say about being close minded:

A closed mind is like a closed book - just a block of wood!!

NightOwl 10-20-2007 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster (Post 276823)
I'm open to any truth.

I am closed to any lies.

The difference is proof, evidence, and credibility.

But should our minds not be open enough to consider other viewpoints presented, because we could think what we thought was true wasn't. Now to there are things that we shouldn't be open to, like sin
So in some ways an open mind is a good thing and others it isn't

Felicity 10-20-2007 10:25 PM

You have to be open minded enough to know when to close it. ;)

pelathais 10-20-2007 10:33 PM

To be "open minded" is generally a good thing. However, we also learn from experiences. A negative experience will tend to teach us not to do that again. This is not being "closed minded;" it is simply being experienced and learning from it.

The accusation of being "closed minded" often is used as a rhetorical tool to belittle someone else's opinion or experience. Since the retort to this tool is often a lengthy explanation- the tool works; unfairly, but it works. So people try to come up with one liners as snappy come-backs; like "your brains will fall out." The end result is usually a great deal of heat but no light.

If understanding is our goal, then we should avoid clichés and go for the heart and not the mind, whether open or closed.

Nahum 10-20-2007 10:33 PM

Doubting God is sin.

Being skeptical of traditions of men is not.

Far too often we confuse the two.

mfblume 10-20-2007 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster (Post 276863)
Doubting God is sin.

Being skeptical of traditions of men is not.

Far too often we confuse the two.

Open mindedness is important in being led by the Spirit. But we need to be closed against errors. However, we must be open enough to realize what is error and what is not, to begin with. :)

I agree with one here who said we must be Bereans, who are wiling to search the scritpures. Open mindedness with searching the scriptures is important.

Nahum 10-20-2007 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pelathais (Post 276861)
To be "open minded" is generally a good thing. However, we also learn from experiences. A negative experience will tend to teach us not to do that again. This is not being "closed minded;" it is simply being experienced and learning from it.

The accusation of being "closed minded" often is used as a rhetorical tool to belittle someone else's opinion or experience. Since the retort to this tool is often a lengthy explanation- the tool works; unfairly, but it works. So people try to come up with oneliners as snappy come-backs; like "your brains will fall out." The end result is usually a great deal of heat but no light.

If understanding is our goal, then we should avoid clichés and go for the heart and not the mind, whether open or closed.

Great post pelathais.

It's just silly to accept all views as truth.

CC1 10-20-2007 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster (Post 276863)
Doubting God is sin.

Being skeptical of traditions of men is not.

Far too often we confuse the two.

I would have to disagree. I think doubting God is being human and we have all done it at times. That is why we walk by faith. That faith gets us through the times of doubt.

Praxeas 10-20-2007 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster (Post 276796)
How many times have you heard the virtues of an open mind extolled?

Seems a lot of folks think an open mind is a great thing. It's as if demanding proof before granting agreement is a bad thing.

Wow....having an OPEN MIND has NOTHING to do with NOT demanding proof. In fact someone with an OPEN mind is very OPEN to the proof.

What you are talking about is not an OPEN MIND. Not sure what the word is for it. But someone with an OPEN mind is willing to look at ALL the facts and proofs one can bring up. Having an OPEN mind does not mean accepting ALL things as true without proof. Having an OPEN mind is a good thing.

For example: A Muslim without an open mind will not look objectively at whatever evidence you can present for Christ. A Muslim with an open mind will take a look at the evidence objectively..

Open mindedness means objectivity
Close mindedness means subjectivity.

Nahum 10-20-2007 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CC1 (Post 276872)
I would have to disagree. I think doubting God is being human and we have all done it at times. That is why we walk by faith. That faith gets us through the times of doubt.

I think you just want to argue. :hypercoffee

Truth: Unbelief is sin.

Truth: Doubt = unbelief

Truth: Doubt = sin

JaneEyre 10-20-2007 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CC1 (Post 276872)
I would have to disagree. I think doubting God is being human and we have all done it at times. That is why we walk by faith. That faith gets us through the times of doubt.

I think doubting and questioning are not the same. ...I don't doubt any of God's greatness or "abilities" but I do question Him. I think God likes that. Look at Job, David, Habbakuk, Moses, Abraham, etc.

SDG 10-20-2007 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster (Post 276863)
Doubting God is sin.

Being skeptical of traditions of men is not.

Far too often we confuse the two.


See John the Baptist.

2Now when John had heard in the prison the works of Christ, he sent two of his disciples,
3And said unto him, Art thou he that should come, or do we look for another?



Doubt is not the absence of faith ... it is a crossroads to unbelief or deeper faith.

The key is bringing our doubt to Jesus.

Nahum 10-20-2007 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas (Post 276874)
Wow....having an OPEN MIND has NOTHING to do with NOT demanding proof. In fact someone with an OPEN mind is very OPEN to the proof.

What you are talking about is not an OPEN MIND. Not sure what the word is for it. But someone with an OPEN mind is willing to look at ALL the facts and proofs one can bring up. Having an OPEN mind does not mean accepting ALL things as true without proof. Having an OPEN mind is a good thing.

For example: A Muslim without an open mind will not look objectively at whatever evidence you can present for Christ. A Muslim with an open mind will take a look at the evidence objectively..

Open mindedness means objectivity
Close mindedness means subjectivity.

Well that's just fine and dandy but how open-minded are you?

Would you read Steven King? Watch Harry Potter? Accept Trinitarianism as a viable alternative to Oneness theology? Further, how do you know what the facts are?

Open-mindedness has no limits. A truly open-minded person must accept the idea that either all is truth or there is no truth.

Nahum 10-20-2007 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea (Post 276880)

See John the Baptist.

2Now when John had heard in the prison the works of Christ, he sent two of his disciples,
3And said unto him, Art thou he that should come, or do we look for another?



Doubt is not the absence of faith ... it is a crossroads to unbelief or deeper faith.

Are you sure about that? I mean that sounds real pretty and all, but is that biblical?

Also, questioning is not the same as doubting.

mizpeh 10-20-2007 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster (Post 276875)
I think you just want to argue. :hypercoffee

Truth: Unbelief is sin.

Truth: Doubt = unbelief

Truth: Doubt = sin

When does doubt become sin? Is it when a fiery dart of doubt comes whizzing into your mind and you think about it and then reject it because you know it isn't from God or is it when you allow that thought to dwell in your mind and then act on it or speak it?

Nahum 10-20-2007 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaneEyre (Post 276877)
I think doubting and questioning are not the same. ...I don't doubt any of God's greatness or "abilities" but I do question Him. I think God likes that. Look at Job, David, Habbakuk, Moses, Abraham, etc.

Great post!

I totally agree.

Praxeas 10-20-2007 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster (Post 276869)
Great post pelathais.

It's just silly to accept all views as truth.

Accepting all views as truthes is not "Open Mindedness"

In fact the only thing I can think of coming close is New Ageism, which says what ever is true for you is true for you, but what is true for me might not be true for you.

mizpeh 10-20-2007 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea (Post 276880)
Doubt is not the absence of faith ... it is a crossroads to unbelief or deeper faith.

Dan, is this an original thought? :saycheese

SDG 10-20-2007 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster (Post 276885)
Are you sure about that? I mean that sounds real pretty and all, but is that biblical?

Also, questioning is not the same as doubting.

Questioning is doubting ... sir .... at it's core.

Which would you rather hear ....???

Option A

Sir ... we've looked at all the medical exams and you are going to die within 6 weeks. There is no hope.

or

Option B

Sir ... we've looked at all the medical exams and it doesn't look good ... but there is a slight chance you can survive this ...

I'll take option B ... doubt ... means there's still hope ...
.

Nahum 10-20-2007 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mizpeh (Post 276886)
When does doubt become sin? Is it when a fiery dart of doubt comes whizzing into your mind and you think about it and then reject it because you know it isn't from God or is it when you allow that thought to dwell in your mind and then act on it or speak it?

The former implies temptation which excuses us from the sin of doubt. the latter would be unbelief.

JaneEyre 10-20-2007 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster (Post 276882)
Well that's just fine and dandy but how open-minded are you?

Would you read Steven King? Watch Harry Potter? Accept Trinitarianism as a viable alternative to Oneness theology? Further, how do you know what the facts are?

Open-mindedness has no limits. A truly open-minded person must accept the idea that either all is truth or there is no truth.

Open mindedness to the things of God is not the same as open mindedness to the things of "the world"....I think after the lines are drawn between "the Church" and the "the World" that there are still other lines that may be drawn between what we see within "The Church"...This is when I believe God allows us some individuality to use our mind within the constraints of what is in His Word.

Nahum 10-20-2007 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea (Post 276896)
Questioning is doubting ... sir .... at it's core.

Which would you rather hear ....???

Option A

Sir ... we've looked at all the medical exams and you are going to die within 6 weeks. There is no hope.

or

Option B

Sir ... we've looked at all the medical exams and it doesn't look good ... but there is a slight chance you can survive this ...

I'll take option B ... doubt ... means there's still hope ...
.

Oh I don't know about that.

I can question God's motives and direction without questioning His divinity or ability.

SDG 10-20-2007 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster (Post 276901)
Oh I don't know about that.

I can question God's motives and direction without questioning His divinity or ability.


See Thomas ....

Had to see to believe.

Seems to me John the Baptist was questioning his divinity, also.

Praxeas 10-20-2007 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster (Post 276882)
Well that's just fine and dandy but how open-minded are you?

Would you read Steven King? Watch Harry Potter? Accept Trinitarianism as a viable alternative to Oneness theology? Further, how do you know what the facts are?

Open-mindedness has no limits. A truly open-minded person must accept the idea that either all is truth or there is no truth.

PP Truth is Truth. If you are not open minded then you lack a love for truth. Why wouldn't God want us open to the truth? Being open to the truth is OPEN MINDEDNESS.

Why should I watch or read those things? They are fiction. That has nothing to do with open mindedness. You are totally misusing the term.

If you read what I said you would NEVER have made this post. Open mindedness is not accepting everything. It's being OPEN to examining what evidence or proofs they HAVE. In other words someone without an open mind NEVER would have looked at you evidence that the Oneness is true and Trinity is not.

An open minded person would objectively look at what a Trinitarian has to say and see if it is true or not. You are saying being open minded is accepting the Trinity without proof and you are wrong. That is not what being Open minded means.

Then you say of all things "how do you know what the facts are?"???? You look AT the facts. You don't accept something as true. You take an objective logical intelligent look AT the facts and the evidences...this is kinda funny for you to ask since you implied initially that someone that is open minded would accept something without proof. Facts form the basis of proving things.

Praxeas 10-20-2007 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea (Post 276902)
See Thomas ....

Had to see to believe.

He was open minded. He was willing to believe something after examining the facts. A close minded person would not even look at the facts or would just deny them. Thanks Dan for the example

SDG 10-20-2007 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas (Post 276904)
He was open minded. He was willing to believe something after examining the facts. A close minded person would not even look at the facts or would just deny them. Thanks Dan for the example

Bingo.

Praxeas 10-20-2007 10:57 PM

BTW Questioning is not necessarily doubting. It really depends on the kinds of questions and how or why. The Bereans were ready to test everything Paul said and rather than chide them for doubt he commended them

Nahum 10-20-2007 10:57 PM

"We are destroying speculations and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God, and we are taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ," II Corinthians 10:5

Praxeas 10-20-2007 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea (Post 276880)
See John the Baptist.

2Now when John had heard in the prison the works of Christ, he sent two of his disciples,
3And said unto him, Art thou he that should come, or do we look for another?



Doubt is not the absence of faith ... it is a crossroads to unbelief or deeper faith.

The key is bringing our doubt to Jesus.

I agree. We ALL have a measure of faith, yet we also always wrestle with different levels or forms of doubt

SDG 10-20-2007 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas (Post 276908)
BTW Questioning is not necessarily doubting. It really depends on the kinds of questions and how or why. The Bereans were ready to test everything Paul said and rather than chide them for doubt he commended them

I would agree that there are questions for clarification ... for better understanding ... But John the Baptist's question is wrought w/ doubt.

Are you ... or should we ???

In the beginning of his ministry ... he declared Behold the Lamb. Now he's not too sure.


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