A question.
 

And I'm going to post at GNC as well..would like perspectives from both places.

Our church meets Sunday afternoon, at 2 pm. This leaves Sunday morning and evening free. Last week, my pastor preached in another church and I went. I liked what I saw there, as far as the church and their outreach etc.

Well, this week I'm sitting on some challenges and thought it might not be a bad idea to start the week out with an extra church service (I'd have done 2 extras if I thought my kids could handle it..3 services in one day w/o going home in btwn might not go so well tho..lol).

So I went to this other church. I'd called my pastor's wife last night to find out what time service was. I got a much cooler than anticipated welcome. MUCH cooler. I was a little surprised, but ok. I was there for God anyhow..not anyone else. I needed the sermon that was preached so all's well. Until I'm leaving. A woman came up to me and asked if I lived in that town. Nope I live in that other one. "I thought you came with Pastor B last week. We (that being the pastor's wife of this church and this woman) aren't so sure you should be here." Um. Why not? It's likely I'll be coming off and on more often. "Well you should really call your pastor and seek his counsel about that." Um ok. I did call his wife last night to find out what time service was. "Well you still should seek his counsel. He can counsel you on these things."

It took me the full half hour drive home to work myself down from really cranky to just letting that go. I sure could have let that get in the way of what God had for me at my church service. My pastor's wife did talk to me when I got there, asked if I'd gone. I told her what happened and told her I will not be asking permission from Pastor to go to another church at a time when we don't have a service. She said some churches wouldn't even LET ME ATTEND unless I had "permission" from my pastor.

HUH? She did explain, but I'm not really satisfied. I do love my pastor and his wife more than ever though, at least there's that. But, oh this whole thing just makes me feel ugly inside. I asked my pastor's wife if he's supposed to call the other pastor and tell them I'll be there. Or, why was I scolded without anyone even asking what my pastor had said? Of course, not knowing I needed my pastor's permission I wouldn't have said the right things anyhow.

Is this really common? WHY? Permission? Oh...you don't even know how that's never going to happen. Part of why I'd like to attend some other churches in the area is to make friends. Sure, I could befriend everyone in my church. In an evening. I already know I have very little in common with the women who are there, this is my church home and I'll wait patiently for it to grow and to then find a best friend sort of relationship, but in the meantime I could use a local friend in the church to hang out with sometimes. But now I need to go ask permission to make friends? I so do not think so. Oh no..not at all.

Can anyone say, cult?

Unfortunately, this is all too common. Right up there with those churches where you are expected to get permission to date and marry.

Oh I love my pastor. lol I just do. Permission to date or marry? Oh I don't think so. I do think by the time I might ever entertain the thought I'll be quite happy to ask for his counsel on the matter though. But not cuz he demands that I do.

That was kind of my first impression. My pastor talked me down a fair bit though. HIS take on it is what really matters. I now know what to tell people when they ask me at least.

You have to decide how much power over you that you give to other people. Sounds like you are very open about what you are doing, so anyone that has a problem with that is out of line.

Both churches would not have a problem as long as you give 10% to each.

To me that is the bottom line.

Since my income is exactly ZERO, I can quite easily oblige them both.

Is this a deep waters issue?

I wasn't sure where to put it. Move it if you must...

Is Blume an admin?

no:snapout

I will move it over to the general section.

I would say sometimes it is simple ethics that would cause a Pastor not to want a neighboring Pastors saint coming to services. I think it is a good thing really, and you should simply talk to your Pastor about your need for more church.

What do ya do when your not going back at all? Tell the pastor or just vanish LOL....

Justa question


I will state on this.. I have never visited another church without telling my pastor in advance.. thats just how this girl was raised... cant get it outta my system for some reason! But anywhere I would go.. my pastor would prolly hear bout it before I got back anywho so it doesnt matter! LOL

Could it be that you're really a sincere Christian and that lady didn't want you to be tagged or classified as a "church hopper" ... think of it in that perspective. :highfive

dude that is the BEST post you have had on this entire forum. I am proud of you.

This is one of those things for which there are a lot of rules but very little understanding.

The church you were visiting was probably concerned that they might be causing trouble by "stealing saints" or that your visit would make it look like they were.

The entrepreneurial style of evangelism practiced by many (if not most) Apostolics in North America dictates that each entrepreneur (pastor) respect the "downline" of his neighbors. Think of it as being an Amway or other multi-level marketing network. It operates the same way. To finance the "vision" that each pastor feels has been given to him by God, saints must be accumulated and their tithes harvested. More saints usually means more money.

And those saints must be protected from the influence of other entrepreneurs who have competing "visions." The less the entrepreneur's downline knows about the network, the quieter his life is likely to be.

Of course, most of this goes against the spirit of the Christian faith, so there is constant tension to try and fulfill the needs of the entrepreneur without coming right out and saying what it is that we're doing. Also, entrepreneurs appreciate fellowship with others of similar vision. And they have to play ball with the larger network in order to keep up appearances. But the whole system is so ingrained with the multi-level marketing paradigm that the needs of the individual pastor to protect his income is of paramount importance.

Fortunately there is a growing number of pastors who view their work as a "service" to the community and to the body of Christ. These folks will say things like, "these are God's people" and they will not tend to be harsh in their discipleship and will always have an open church door for anyone who wants to come.

You had some good feedback from the other members regarding this situation. Casten's post probably gave the clearest reason why the ladies at the church you visited reacted the way they did when they found out you were a member from a neighboring church.

You should tell your pastor that you were just looking to meet friends, so there wouldn't be any misunderstanding that you were looking to leave the church. He should give you permission to continue and if he doesn't then I would pray long and hard for direction from God on the next step to take.

This makes sense. In some sort of way...I can accept it at any rate even if it makes me crazy.

Wow. I see what you're saying andwow. I wish it wasn't so true.

I'm very glad my pastor is among these. His open door goes both ways.

Your pastor and his wife loves you and yes you are in his care so out of respect you should ask. I applaud the visiting church for their ethics it is outdated today.

I have spoken to my pastor now. He knows enough about my situation to already know why I went visiting yesterday. He has no problem with it and has encouraged me to go as often as I'd like. He only asks that I let him know where and when I'm going so he can answer to the other pastor who'll be calling him when I do go visiting.

I guess that's "permission" in a way. He gave me "permission" to do whatever I want to do w/o having to ask his permission.

Out of respect, I had already talked to my pastor's wife. I had asked *her* for the service time vs looking it up or calling the other church. And out of rsepect I will let him know where and when I'm visiting in the future. But, I will not ask his permission. Unless we're just hung up on semantics. I trust my pastor's counsel and if visiting a church I haven't already heard him endorse, I would seek that before going. But that's still not asking permission.

The visiting church didn't even ask if my pastor knew I was visiting. They assumed he didn't and scolded me accordingly. There are reasons why this bothers me as much as it does but I'm having trouble putting some of them into words and others I'd rather not post publicly right now. I do think the church needs to keep in mind that not everyone attending has been there their entire life. I wouldn't have been as upset if the pastor's wife, or someone else in position of leadership in that church had spoken to me. I still think the best way to have dealt with it would have been to simply call my pastor and find out if he knew I was there..and have him deal with it if he didn't.

I've not seen too much of that kind of behavior anywhere around here for the most part, thankfully.

It's unfortunate that so many people are walking around with a corncob up their hindend though.

There are pastors who are concerned for your soul, that you don't get confused in your thinking. I can respect that.

There are pastors who are fearful you will dicover that they are teaching something wrong or that they are control freaks.

There are pastors that are concerned the tithe is gonna disappear.

All three types are prevalant in our ranks.

I would be packing my bags if a pastor told me I could not visit another church service being held at a time that did not cause me to miss my own church, unless he convincetly showed me in scripture that the church I was wanting to visit was in very clear scriptural error.

Interesting answer. Why is church hopping a bad thing? And can I expect a Biblical answer?

ROFL!

Cheesehead (BTW, I'm wearing a Packers sweatshirt at school today, even though they are playing my Broncos tonight.......don't tell them that though), you have a great way of putting things into the correct perspective!! I love it!

Well that's pretty much what I think of it.

I hope to have an answer to this by the time I get home in a few hours. I have always wondered about this 'problem'.

No strictly a political one.

I must have missed the part that he had foreknowledge of you visiting the other church to seek out fellowship. He sounded like a good pastor and not one of those that micromanaged their members. I wrote that you should have his permission to attend services at another church, because some pastors want to know such things and it would be expected that you received permission in such cases.

I attended what most would label an ultra-con church in the San Fransisco Bay Area in the mid 1980's where everything about the lives of the members had to go through the pastor. I hadn't been a member there too long when I went to VOP in the city on off service night. I had mentioned to a friend what a great service I had attended at VOP and he immediately asked me if Brother P knew that I had went to that church.

The brother told Brother P before I had a chance and I was told that I couldn't attend that church at anytime, so I stopped attending until I was able to leave that church. It was many years for me to readjust my thinking about leadership/pastors after I left, but I don't harbor any hard feelings whatsoever.

Some people need the strict boundaries from a pastor and they shouldn't be bashed for that need. I came to appreciate the liberty of serving God and the revelation of his grace.

I'm not really sure that anybody anywhere should need a pastor's "permission" to do anything.....

I'm not so sure that's what pastor/saint relationships are meant to be about.

There is only one church, and that's God's church. It shouldn't matter which assembly one attends, when one attends, or how often they attend.

Bumping for an answer.

On the church hopping comment, I don't see why this dear concerned sister would've been warning the poor hapless visitor so that she wouldn't be labeled a church hopper because you're not a church hopper unless you actually leave one church and go to another. If people said she was a church hopper because she visited another church it wouldn't be her that was in error, it'd be the ones lying and gossipping about something that wasn't true. lol

I agree with ya, but I still am puzzled as to what is so wrong about 'church hopping'. I lived in the Bible belt area for ten years and knew a few people who didn't attend one church regularly, but attended several. They believed that there is just one church with many assemblies, but they didn't believe in belonging to one assembly, that it was the 'one church' that mattered.

This isn't the norm, as most of us are creatures of habit and like continuity and repetition, but for those few who don't, why does it matter to us that they do? Why do we call them 'church hoppers' as if it's derogatory?

With a lot of people that 'church hop,' there are reasons they do. They're often disgruntled, have issues with authority, etc. etc. etc. And by their nature you can't depend on them. You can never build a congregation on that type of people. They have no roots and you can never expect to count on them for anything. The fact that they have no roots sometimes leads to the tendency that spiritually they flounder all over the place having no roots in the Word because they won't sit still long enough to actually hear and receive any solid teaching. Sometimes that itself is why they hop.

I'm sure that's the case with many who do that, but in my experience, those people are few and far between, so building a church with those kinds of people isn't necessary nor reasonable, as it's not an issue.

There was a couple in a church I once attended who didn't want to be 'members' on the church roll because they didn't see it as Biblical. They attended church there faithfully but wouldn't attend business meetings nor vote (had to be a member to vote), even though they met all the requirements for being a member. But this is going off on yet another rabbit trail....LOL!

I'm still waiting on an answer from Caston as to what is wrong with being a church hopper and Biblical support for such a view.

our pastor is that way, They want to be told if you are going somewhere else, even if it is not involving missing church. I cant see a point in that and have not always done that. Especially when visiting a non pentecostal church around here

My first thought was "this makes me want to go visit some nice charismatic churches" but I've dealt with that rebellion. :pirate

Having come from that it's likely I will go visit someday, but not just to get my pastor's goat. :stirpot