Growing Up Mennonite
 

Growing Up Mennonite

My story this week on 90&9

http://www.ninetyandnine.com/Archive.../testimony.htm

First photo credit to AFF's Margie, second photo credit to an unknown newspaper reporter who convinced my family to pose at the Turnpike sign in 1965.

very interesting- always found their lifestyle fascinating.

so did you grow in the community that is close to Philadelphia? i can't remember the name of it right now.... I've been there a few times.

you never said how your family reacted to your conversion to Pentecost

Lancaster County, Pa was my birthplace - yes.

It was a bit tramatic for them and I both, but our commonalities have won over our disagreements. My father and I worked together prior to his death. Today I also have a younger brother who attends a Pentecostal Church.

what does your mom think of it all ???

I was in Phila.PA last Year- they have a market downtown right across the street from my hotel that is awesome!

I think our relationship can be termed as one of mutual respect. We are a close knit and connected family for the most part.


Funny - I went to a farmers market in NY this past summer and met some Mennonite vendors who turned out to be my relatives!

Now why doesn't that surprise me ??? :pirate

How many barns did you raise?

Several. I was in on some other kinds of rasings as well.... LOL!

Stephen Hoover you smuggled in a tape player?

Were you of the group that disallowed rubber tires and rubber shoe soles, and had twelve men as elders with one being like Peter who determined who was saved and who was not, and forbade belts for pants and only allowed suspenders?

I know a brother who was of THAT sort of group. Whew. Imagine!

what about the ones where the women only wear the black or navy blue shoes with the same colored hose>>>>>>>ewwwww.....I would have to hear from God.

Yes on the bolded. Why do I doubt the other items? I suppose it's possible, though unlikely, that any Elders made declarations of one being "saved" whether in good standing with the church or not.

Uh... yes. I had quite a stash of "forbidden" items. The church had no real power over me since I had not officially "joined" yet. Of course the items were forbidden all the same as I was still living at home with my parents.

It was great reading your article Brother Hoover.

I found it interesting how some of the struggles among the Mennonite communities on what should be allowed and what should not be allowed really seem to parallel the current struggles being faced in the UPC since GC on some level.

Thanks for the interest.

While I would not be supportive of such prohibitions and forming of others convictions I sometimes wonder how much better off we would be if we could free ourselves of this love affair with the adorning of modern dress.

Stephen, I am from South West Louisiana and there is a menonite community there. They however, use modern technology such as tractors and cars.

is this the branch that broke off the old order that you reference?

Also, all their men have beards. I see that the group you belonged to did not.

can you give some insight on that?

In numbers, all the "plain" dressing Mennonites combined are far less that there quite liberal counterparts who have no dress code so to speak. I was from the "Old Order" group of about 30 thousand members (plus children).

There are a variety of progressively more liberal groups than the strict Old Order, including some known as Amish/Mennonites who do wear beards. The group you reference would likely fit in this catagory. Also, a rather large group known as the Church of God in Christ Mennonites wear beards and practice shunning and banning of wayward members - as do the Amish. Shunning is normally a line of demarkation between the Amish and Mennonites - since the Amish hold to this doctrine quite strongly, but a few groups have mixed some of the teachings. Shunning is one reason Jacob Ammon and his followers left the greater Anabaptist movement.

interesting. I do know that when a man in this group sins, if he wants to come back to church they shave his beard and he is shamed for it.

They do have a pretty interesting dress code. all the ladies wear homeade dresses. the men typically wear jeans and some button up shirt. Dont know if their shirts are homeade or not. The ladies all wear a small black hat though.

Bro Hoover, I watched a movie/documentary one time called the "Devils Playground". It highlighted the lives of amish young people who were allowed and some apparently encouraged to sow their wild oats so to speak before they made the decision to stay within the group. Are there any similarities to your group?

Awesome story Steve. Was it primarily your Mother or your Father's conviction that led him back to the OOM? It sounds like you grew up in a great family.

It is true... but more in a way of determining when someone sinned. They had to go to the one who stands as Peter for forgiveness before they could be saved and enter the gates.

I've read all of Beverly Lewis's novels about the Mennonite/Amish community near Lancaster. Just wondered if they are all true-to-life?

Seems like half the community is named Yoder!!

Ok I have to tell you a story Bro Hoover that should give you a good chuckle.. when we first bought our building in bethany ok. It had been owned by the hdqtrs of the mennonite church there and from what I am told it was the very strict order of mennonites as well. Everything seemed in order.. nothing was overdone... well.. except for the pink flamingos someone had painted alllllllllll over the church when they were leaving?!?!? We still havent figured that one out! But here is the funniest part... someone asked them if they had phone lines etc installed and they informed us NOT absolutely NOT that was not like them and they wouldnt do that! They even came out and moved their buggies I kid you not when they were leaving... but as we were renovating the parsonage which would end up being my families home... guess what we found in the master bdrm closet???? PHONE JACKS Andddddddd internet connections and a computer monitor!!!!!!!!! we all had a little laugh over that.. then one of the people came back and very meekly asked for their monitor back :thad

LOL! Now THAT was funny AG!

Yea, we all still laugh over that! Buggies and all and then a computer and phones and all that good jazz.. in a closet! And I DO have pictures to prove it somewhere too LOL... it was very comical to say the least! But those pink flamingos ?!?!?!?! Just dont get that part!

Steve, what a great page you put together!!! NICE!!!

I'd really love to hear more details about your story if you ever have time. Tell us what your siblings are doing now. Are they still OOM? (except the one we know is Pentecostal) Did your father farm? If so, what kind of farming did he do? How is it that you were all allowed to go to public school?

I could go on and on because I have LOTS of questions. I'm not "questioning" you, I'm interested!

And one more question:
My ancestors (in the very early 1800's) came to Fulton County in Ohio because they were Amish-Mennonite. Do you know what that might mean? Were they Amish? Or were they Mennonite?

Someone mentioned that the Yoder name is so dominate in Pennsylvania. Here in NW Ohio if you are Amish-Mennonite descent than you will have a connection to the Stuckey's. MOST of the people in the western part of our county are related to the Stuckey's (that's my line, by the way. My great grandmother was a Stuckey)

THere was a Mennonite family in my Mid -Wives office yesterday. We have lots of Mennonites in a small community in Southern Arkansas. There language was very strange, something I had not heard before. I met thier little boy but I guess he did not understand my language because when I ask him what his name was he held up 3 fingers! LOL!!
Anyway, they must have been liberal because one of the ladies had on bright pink.

Thanks for sharing your life's story with us, Stephen. I remembered when I watched you and your family on Wife Swap and how proud I was to see fellow Apostolic Christians willing to take such a bold move in order to share their testimony. I have been thrilled to read how the Lord used your appearance on that show to minister to so many people.

God bless you and your family.

I saw that too and it was quite troubling. It would be a mistake to think that video represented the majority of Amish youth. I would say perhaps 10 - 15% of the Amish youth take their "Rumspringa" liberties to that extreme. The Old Order Mennonite youth practice this also to an even lessor degree.

The Devils Playground footage needs to be balanced with this story:

The Amish, A People of Preservation is a PBS award-winning documentary that includes Amish and Old Order Mennonite footage.

It is very accurate. And i would highly recommend this exclusive footage of Amish/Mennonite culture.

I think it was primarily my mother who wanted to rejoin the Old Order Church.

I have very few regrets concerning the way I was raised.

I suspect it is a misunderstanding of the doctrine of closed communion (which Amish and Mennonites practice) and the reconciliation process after willful transgression. It is not seen as the minister granting pardon for sins, but the interview and confession is to determine whether they now agree to abide by the Ordnung, and agree to forsake the way of transgression before being declared in good standing with the church. Some Apostolics practice this to a degree. Indeed i see some benefits to closed communion.

My friend is a Lutheran Pastor (Missouri Synod) and they practice closed communion as well. He would not serve communion to someone he knows drinks and drives. In that sense he is judging them fit/unfit for communion, but I don't think he would say they are assuredly damned.

What a great testimony. Does your background give you a greater ability to testify?
It was interesting that you were permitted to attend public school. Did you go on to college?

(When is your book coming out?)

Very funny!


There actually is a group in Canada, an Old Order split, that does the horse and buggy for transportation but has recently allowed laptop computers for "business purposes". :hypercoffee

Common, I am not sure about the greater ability part... but it is an immediate conversation starter in most any setting. It certainly has opened unique discussions on many occaisions.

As to the public school - it was discouraged, but not "forbidden". My family were pioneers in the local settlement and there was no existing private school and they choose the public option.

No college degree - only GED and techinal schools.

Hey we might be kin!! LOL!

I'll share more later.

Negatives and Positives of the Old Order Mennonite Church


Negatives
• Though many unconverted souls came to Christ and a believers baptism through the teachings of Menno Simons, today’s Old Order Mennonites have all but ceased sharing the gospel and making disciples to those outside their own communities.

• Early Anabaptists wrote of the operation of the gifts of the Spirit in their midst. Today the predominant view appears to be cessationist.

• The ultra conservative lifestyle and distinctive dress go beyond basic modesty and the Christianity they wish to portray, and speaks much of the subculture they have developed among themselves.



Positives
• The Old Order Mennonites recognize Christ’s body and work outside of the Mennonite faith and are nonjudgmental toward Christians who do not share their own convictions.

Disclaimer: Some who leave the OOM after being a member, are held to another standard since they have “known a better way”.

• Their humanitarian efforts are notable and extend beyond the community of believers.

• A high premium is placed on being Christ-like, and a rather low premium on verbal declarations of the same.

• The family unit is viewed as a sacred institution and the simplicities of honesty, integrity, and wholesome living abound in Old Order Mennonite families.

Here is a little article I wrote. It was published in the Pentecostal Herald in Sept. 2005

“Radical Reformers”

The Minister was responding to questions regarding
Matthew 28:19,

“From this it must not be understood that there are
three beings, or three persons, much less that there
are three Gods in Heaven.”

Certainly this is a man who is not embracing the
historical creeds as this statement alone would label
him as an “unorthodox” preacher, if not a heretic.
His audience includes new converts to the faith as
well as youth from within the movement. At risk of
alienating himself even further from the mainstream
Christianity of the day the Bishop continued,

“ But these names are differently expressed in
consideration of the work of redemption and the
salvation of the human race; as, the Father, the
origin; the Son, the means of redemption; and the Holy
Ghost, sanctification and confirmation in salvation"

“For, although it is said by some men, that there are
three independent Persons or Beings in the Godhead,
and therefore say further: “God the Father, God the
Son, and God the Holy Ghost,” yet we do not find such
expressions in Holy Scripture.”

Is this a modern day Pentecostal, giving a defense for
the Oneness of the Godhead?
Or perhaps an early Pentecostal discussing the “New
Issue”?

No. It was more than two centuries prior to the New
Issue debate. The man is Gerhard Roosen (1612-1711), a
prominent Mennonite bishop in Northern Germany. His
writings were recorded in Chistliches
Gemueths-Gespraech , the later, English version is in
a book titled Saving Faith which included other
Anabaptist/Mennonite Articles of Faith as well. To
this day the book is used in instruction for youth and
others seeking membership with the Old Order Mennonite
Church.

They were called the Radical Reformers, rejecting not
only the Papal authority of the Catholic Church but,
the infant Baptism of the Lutherans as well. Known
for their insistence on a “believers baptism” their
enemies labeled them as re-baptizers, or “Anabaptist”.
For this they suffered persecution at the hands of
Catholics and Reformers alike.

Such famous men as Luther and Zwingli called them
heretics. Unlike the Anabaptists’ nonresistance,
Luther and Zwingli defended their teaching with the
sword and the new Radical Reformers faced great
persecution. Thousands were burned and drowned by the
religious men of the day. Adhering to a quite
literal interpretation of the Sermon on the Mount the
Anabaptists were known to love and pray for those who
hated them. Many of their captors were converted by
their incredible acts of kindness in the face cruelty
and torture.

While the early Anabaptists did not all reject the
doctrine of the Trinity entirely, they did reject the
creeds and insisted on using only the scripture as a
basis for doctrine. This led many to question the
veracity of such a dogma and statements like Roosens’
were not uncommon in early Anabaptist teaching.

A strict lifestyle of holiness was taught and expected
among Anabaptist groups and one who was born again was
expected to give himself to a life of non-conformity,
separation and humility.

It has been said that the Pentecostal holiness
churches of today have their roots in the Anabaptist
movement. Not only in some doctrine and lifestyle,
but the zeal found in the Apostolic Pentecostal
movement may certainly be a mirror reflection of those
Radical Reformers in 16th and 17th centuries.

A former Old Order Mennonite, Stephen his wife Kristin
and three daughters attend -----------------, Mo.

Stephen, that is a very well written and VERY interesting article. Thank you for posting it.

So it appears that perhaps my ancestors actually understood Oneness and just didn't know it, eh?

On a completely different note, I was sitting here wondering: Do your girls even begin to comprehend the rich heritage that they were born with? Something that not alot of other children that they know can claim, that's for sure.

Wait let me get my pilgrim dress out of the barn.:pirate