The Reason Some Apostolics Are Concerned: The Results of Erased Lines
 

The reason some are concerned is they are Control Freaks.

exactly!!

I couldn't have said it better Bishop.

Awe - we lost the vote - Pooh Pooh - lets go do what we preached against all these years - lets rebel and leave and run everybody down that don't do it like we do! Lets LIE about WHY they want to go on TV - we are sooooooooo smart - we know the REAL REASON is so they can HAVE A TV!!!!!!!!!!
The very reason most leave to start with - They see your DOUBLE STANDARD. Hypocrites!
I was in a hotel in NC and the DS came out of his room and told everybody - FREDDY CLARK IS ON TV!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How on earth did he know? HE HAD IT ON!!!!!!!!! Now he is a ring leader in all this Anti-Evangelism - Lets hide it in a box and keep ourselves pure and holy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It is ALL about CONTROL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well - I am sounding mean and grouchy! LOL BAD BISHOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Steadfast - I was not talking about you personally - It was not meant for you. I just know a LOT of these guys and I know a lot of it is about Control. They certainly tried to control me here in GA - I know about that first hand.
God bless you what ever you do - it don't matter to me. I do get a little passionate at times!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am tired and sleepy and should be in bed!
GOOD NIGHT ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am not a lib as Bishop but I am not an uc.

I have changed my view over the years to where I am not as conservative as I was. I am a middle of the road guy. I guess in traveling the nation preaching and fellowshipping with various people that I have come to realize that people who are all the time "harping" on standards are not actually getting people to fall in love with Jesus as much as they are a set of guidelines.

I am in love with Jesus. I have not changed how I live near as much as how I view the approach to it. I think that if we will preach Jesus and get people to develop a relationship with Jesus then alot of the other things take care of themselves. My wife don't wear make up, cut her hair or wear pants. My wife don't even wear splits. We do wear wedding rings and all my dress shirt are french cuff which means I wear cuff links a lot. Most of my shirts are not white. I think I own 2 white shirts. There was a time that none of that applied to me. I was living rules to fit in with a crowd. Now the things I live are totally because I love Jesus not because it is the rule of a certain crowd.

I know that to actually call all UC "control freaks" is a broad brush. I am not positive that as to who you may be. You may not be on of the "control freaks".

Maybe I should revise my statement and say that for some I have met, the term "control freak" does fit, but for others I can honestly say that it don't.

AB,

Could it be that there are some with genuine convictions....? Could it be that there are some that really believe that it is wrong and feel that they would be doing themselves and others an injustice if they stayed? Could it be that they have to answer to God for the decisions that they make and more importantly to them are the way God thinks about them and not not what man thinks.

Granted there are some that are control freaks, but not all of them, not even 1/16 of them are, but you are painting with a major broad brush here and it's not fair to most of the Apostolic brethern who are trying their best to live and move in the direction that they feel GOD is pointing them in.

I respect you, bro, but this is going just a tad bit too far in my opinion, such as it is.

I know I'm probably in way over my head, but felt that I couldn't let this go.

Credibility
 

I did not say YOU have a double standard and did not accuse YOU of being a hypocrite - I don't even know you - you say I do - but I am not sure of that!

I did not come on this forum to establish my credibility! I lost all that when I left the UPC like everyone else does. We are all so great when we are raising the $$$$ but when we leave - then we have no credibility!
LOL Chill out - I am not fighting you!

Good Night, I got your PM. I am leaving Jamacia in a few hours. They are having me back in APRIL 08.

The bottom line is that there are people on both sides of this issue that just can't stand it that someone else has a different viewpoint than their own. Two sides of the same coin.

I sang at Bishop Horace Smiths(presiding bishop of the PAW org) church this past Sunday.He feels we worship the doctrine more than Jesus.
I tend to agree with him.

That may be true for some, but not all. Most are men with true convictions that they felt are being violated.

No, you may not understand, but that doesn't make it wrong, it makes it taking a stand and standing for what they truly believe in.

If you will READ my POST- I said I did not say Steadfast. I did not say ALL, I did not say MOST, I said - SOME!

If someone has a conviction against something then they need to have it to themselves and not expect everyone else to have the same conviction, Sister.

Steadfast I will say this, though I am not as conservative as I was in the past on standards, I am sold out to the oneness message. I have received a revelation of it for myself and to see the PAW this close to accepting other groups is very disturbing.

And what is a house built on truth without spirit?

I believe that, Rico. I don't necessarily agree with everything that's going on, but I do see the one who have a conviction going with what they believe.

VERY true. We still need the Holy Ghost moving in our midst. I know I can't survive with out it.

That is exactly how I believe and wish I'd been raised that way. Perhaps I'd be a different person today.

Sister, it has been my experience that apostolic preachers are deathly afraid of ever admitting they are wrong about anything, so all this fighting to maintain the status quo doesn't surprise me one bit. The apostolic church has managed to preach itself into a corner. I, for one, am glad that people are finally willing to admit that some things went overboard and changes are being made.

I am not in Cali. I also have not been to any of their conventions. I have some friends that have. They say the same things your saying Thad.

I have a friend that pastors an AAC church in MS and the PAW pastor in his town asked him to come and teach doctrine because his church was not sure about what they believed and he was not postive he could really teach it. I think it is sad when one pastor has to call in another pastor to teach doctrine because he don't think he can.

I really don' think we've preached ourselves into a corner more than technology has outflanked us. I don't think that preaching against TV was overboard, it was what it was, another way to keep the world out of your home and to some that was very important.

Now that the internet and cell phones are here, it has become increasingly different and more difficult for people to believe that TV was bad, and at one time it really was, and still can be, but........so can the internet and the cell phone.

It's really a matter of personal convictions and committment. How far are we willing to go to keep our OWN level of committment to God and HIS plans that HE has for us.

Sister, you prove my point with this post. You said technology has outflanked y'all. You're right. What you are seeing are the results of too much focus on the thou shalt nots and not enough focus on the thou shalts. The simple truth is that it was simple to make up rules to control people from things like tv or certain radio stations. However, with the advances in technology over the last 15 years, there's no way for the rulemaking to keep up. As I said, too much focus on the thou shalt nots and not enough on the thou shalts. My hope is that the apostolic church learns a valuable lesson on what's important, via all these changes taking place. Holiness can not be legislated.

This is a very good post. Thank you for saying exactly what I think.

Well, I gotta hit the sack. I am moving in the morning. See y'all later.

I totally agree with what you have said here. It is really a matter of personal convictions and committment.

The standards that I live are because of person convictions not because of rules from anyone. What I do, I do because I am in love with Jesus.

Hey Rico........... keep this in mind during the Christmas season....

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Steadfast,

Your first post frightens me.... To think that the PAW is so close to accepting the trinitarian doctrine....

I'm in a conundrum (sp ?) as to where I stand on the Resolution 4 issue. I truly believe that media (TV, internet, radio, etc) can be a valuable tool in reaching the lost.... and I also firmly believe that there are men of God who are able to use any and all media to win souls and it will not affect them or their church in a detrimental manner..... HOWEVER, having said that .... I also firmly believe that we have people (yes, even pastors & ministers) who will not be able to handle it - and it will affect their ministry and the churches they pastor in a very detrimental way.

So then, some would say... "well, then their walk wasn't what it should be" or "they had a 'heart' issue BEFORE and it would have come out in some other form".... that may be so, but ......

I once heard a very wise man say: "Don't tear down a fence until you know and understand why it was built" .....

I've been part of the UPCI all my life - I don't believe that we will be the only ones in Heaven - but I do believe that we are living in the end time and the enemy will use deception to cause people to lose out with God - and the sad part is, they won't even realize what happened... What does the scripture say about "even the elect will be deceived" and "Lord, we did all this in your name" and He replies "Depart from me, I never knew you...." (Forgive me if I have taken either of these references out of context.)

I just want to live close enough to Jesus to hear that still, small voice when He says "come up higher...."

Just my random rattling this morning ......

Carry on....................:tiphat

I was speaking to a lady from the PAW here and she was telling me that she felt alot of the older bishops hold up the PAW by trying to keep non-apostolics from preaching in their conferences and things. I just thought to myself oh my goodness why would you even think it's okay to allow someone preach for you if you know their doctorinal views are unbiblical?

There is no justification when other folks won't go down the same roads....

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