The Truth About The PCI!
 

Here is a pre-1945 Manual of the Pentecostal Church Inc. There has been some discussion in the past as to their fundamental differences with the PAJC. Some thought there was little or no difference but you can now read for yourself and make your own decision. Note especially the section labeled Conversion or Forgiveness of Sins.
Raven

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More bread crumbs!!! More bread crumbs!!!

:begging
(where's that bird been???)
:ty2:stars

Is there more ...?

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This is an interesting comment on the Godhead from a Oneness organization.

Fudge, if I remember correctly, stated that something like 80 to 90% of the UPCI AOF came from the PCI constitution .....

Including the clause in the Fundamental Doctrine pertaining to the "unity of the faith" .... also from Ephesians

From PCI constitution:

"We shall endeavor to keep the unity of the spirit in the bond of peace with all Spirit-filled Children of God, until we all come to the unity of faith, once preached by Jesus Christ and the Apostles."

This is a testament of the willingness of the PCI to fellowship and keep peace w/ all Spirit-filled churches ... Trinnies included. This also evidenced in ... "we shall extend Christian and brother fellowship to of God's people everywhere".

It is also further proof that their intent during the merger was to keep the unity of Spirit first ..... never intending to somehow acquiesce their doctrinal views.

More myths busted. Oh my a triune God ....!!!!!!!!!

Raven ... the UPCI article on repentance still reads similarly even today:

Pardon and forgiveness of sins is obtained by genuine repentance, a confessing and forsaking of sins. We are justified by faith in the Lord Jesus Christ (Romans 5:1). John the Baptist preached repentance, Jesus proclaimed it, and the apostles emphasized it to both Jews and Gentiles (Acts 2:38, 11:18, 17:30). The word "repentance" means a change of views and purpose, change of heart, change of mind, change of life, transformation, etc. Jesus said, "Except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish" (Luke 13:3).


Luke 24:47 says, "And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem."

Thank you for this.

Dan the majority of these guys have NO roots to any PCI heritage. In fact I doubt if any do. There has been NO PCI since 1945 it is 2007 that is 62 years. How old do you think the average will be at that meeting?:snapout

Oh ... 40 to 50. Which means for this group their ANCIENT LANDMARKS date only 2 generations ago.

My, have we come a long way or not?????????

I also can't believe they used the forbidden word "trinity" to explain God!!!!!!!!! :eek:

Come now, Elder Epley.

I think you REALLY know what DA is saying here.

The vast majority of those guys use as their mantra the "old paths" which are about 50-60 years old as if that was some sort of grand millennial age of truth.

Hall tried to propogandize that the only difference in the two organizations was methods of evangelism.

Well, whether the fellas livin' on Tulsa Time like it or not, THIS was a big part of the "heritage" they yammer about so much.

I understand what is being said the majority of men living know nothing about this. I am not diminishing the PCI nor it's contributions toward the UPC structure or history I am only saying the majority of those guys meeting at Tulsa the PCI history would mean nothing. The majority of these men would have been raised in water & Spirit churches with strong emphasis on standard issues. ONLY in certain locales was there much PCI influence that endured. So to most they are not willingly forgetting they don't even have a clue.

This means so much to me. I have grown up in the UPC trying to jump through hoops to get our salvation doctrine to line up with the Bible. It is such a peace to finally be able to know the TRUTH!

Now, I feel like I can witness to folks and lead them to fullness of truth without telling them they are going to hell.

:amen

Dan it was thee NOT I that brought the Tulsa meeting into this discussion.

Thank you Brother Epley for commenting, this would cause the contemporary UPC apologist to run for the hills hoping this thread would be sequestered to page 34 ASAP.

While the PCI is dead, I would bet beyond all measure if this exact wording would confuse the daylights out of the garden variety UPC saint.

Of course the term Trinity, Triune, and Trinitarian didn't have the same stigma it has today.

I am curious though how the AOGs of that day would/could disagree with the PCI interpretation of the Godhead.

I thought it was wrong to use trinitarian terms.

I had No Idea the founders of UPC included such terms as "triune" and "trinity" in their godhead description!!!!!!!

Is this one of the reasons why many believe that PCI were sympathetic towards trinitarians ?

Does anyone know the exact year this was published? (or at least an approximate date). And. could it be possible to post the entire booket? Interesting reading!

I will in the next few days try and post the pre-merger PAJC manual, most will be surprised to see the tone and spirit that was displayed in their articles of Faith. If I can get Jeanie to break out the scanner and start doing it maybe today.

Keith

I echo this sentiment ... it would be interesting to read the constitution in it's entirety.

Fudge on the PCI constitution
 

From Christianity Without the Cross, Thomas Fudge, page 148

“ … one factor acknowledged by all that the PCI was by far better organized of the two merging bodies. Therefore, it made sense not only to adopt certain doctrinal positions but also much of their polity and discipline as well. On the article, ‘pertaining to repentance and conversion’, 3 of the 4 statements therein can be traced to the PCI. The statement on ‘water baptism’ is also PCI in origin. On the “baptism of the Holy Spirit”, all 9 statements in these articles are derived from the PCI. Three of four statements likewise come from the PCI, with the fourth statement previously alluded added in 1954. All of this means that of the 18 statements in these [original] articles, 16 are PCI in origin, one from the PAJC, and one was added after the merger.”

Footnote: David Bernard has done his denomination a great service by tracing out the origin and development of the “Articles of Faith”. While I do not always agree with the conclusions he draws, his work on this aspect of Oneness Pentecostal history is to be commended. See his Understanding the Articles of Faith, 26-39. In the terms of the entire Articles of Faith it can be shown that 75% of the statements come from the PCI. Of the 73 separate identical clauses the breakdown of origins is – PCI: 55, PAJC:5, New/Other: 13. It is worth pointing out that many of the clausal statements are effectively citations of the Biblical texts and are not to be understood as 20th century theological statements.

I suspect, since this was written in the early days of the Pentecostal Movement, that the "gulf" between the two groups wasn't as wide then as it is now. WE have to bear in mind that the rift between the AOG and the Oneness brethren was fairly recent. These are brethren who had preached, prayed and labored together since the very inception of the 20th Century Pentecostal Movement. The rift broke fellowship, separated brethren, divided churches. There wasn't the great "differentation" (if thats a word) between the two groups as there is now. Perhaps the words "Trinity" and "triune" were employed as an attempt to "woo" some to join the PCI. While Oneness people of today find the the terms in question abhorrent and would not employ their use to describe their views, in the early days of modern Pentecostalism this was, no doubt, acceptable. In fact, the explanation of the Oneness view today is not that much different.. we just refrain from using words like Trinity and Triune, replacing it with the more Biblically correct phrase, "three manifestations of One God". In affect, the words we use, or refrain from using, distance us from our trinitarian counterparts.

It'd be great to see more of that "tone and spirit" shown today. The very fact that, in the beginning of the preamble, the people at Topeka are referred to as "Christians" speaks of the remarkable "tone and spirit" displayed then and the lack thereof today as displayed by some. Enjoyed the reading... makes me want to stand and yell, "Back to Pentecost!"

No.... Back to Pentecost!

[QUOTE=Daniel Alicea;289628]

A. Urshan used the term tri-unity in his book on the Godhead. I think they were attempting to convert their Trinity comrades thus modifying the meaning of the term instead of the terms themselves.

He also used the term the three in one God, which to me is not problematic.

Will post the PAJC asap, Jeanie's Laptop crashed when she was scanning it.

I have a nice treasure inherited from my Great Grand Pappy, orginal AD Urshan Books published by Gospel Publishing House (AOG) his life story and his Sermon/Prayer book, dated 1914. Even the Oneness Historical Society at the WEC doesn't have these.

I think I know what you are going to share and if I am correct you are right, they are very good.

Eld. Andrew Urshan used the term "triune God."

The cover page shows the headquarters in Dallas, TX.
In 1945 when the merger took place, the PAJC did not have a headquarters building but the PCI had one in St. Louis so that became the headquarters of the new organization.

"Back to Pentecost" to me would mean
-back to a time of fellowship around the work of Jesus on the cross,
-back to a time of fellowship around the HGB,
-back to a time of fellowship where water baptism was performed by the baptizer according to his/her understanding without someone looking over their shoulder to see if the "proper" words were spoke
-back to a time when organization or lack thereof was not an issue
-back to a time when "the Apostolic Faith" was based on HGB, not water baptism

Have not had a chance to read the thread yet, just skimmed the scanned document.

They used the dreaded word "triune" to describe God and didn't seem ashamed to do so!!! Didn't run away from that terminology like most modern day Oneness Pentecostals do.

Now THAT is Pentecost. Real Pentecost!

The reason they "don't have a clue" is because of the way in which the PCI material has been scoured from the UPCI's records. The PCI writings that all potential UPCI preachers were required to read when I came in (early 1980's) have been removed.

I'm just mid-40's in age but I remember the PCI material. I also remember how I was taught to despise certain of my brethren for being "compromisers." That's why the "Tulsa crowd" won't "remember" the PCI material. It's because they were taught to despise it all along.

There's been a great deal of historical revisionism that has been going on for years in the UPCI and the Apostolic movement in general. When the folks in "Tulsa" harp about "heritage" they are only only harping about a heritage that is around 60 years old.

Our OP founders who predated the merger had a heritage that they clung to that was much older than a few decades. The "Tulsa" group is really about innovation, and not heritage. That has been documented time and time again.

Tim, during the time of the merger people definitely knew there was a difference.

My mother was telling me the other day about how traumatic the merger was on their local church. She said that after Bro Wise and my grandfather left for the merger meetings, the young people were crying and worrying. They had heard that the PCI didn't share their beliefs concerning salvation.

The difference was definitely not methods.