Emma Bontrager Tributes
 

This one is for Emma.

http://video.yahoo.com/video/play?vi...fr=yfp-t-471-s

Amish Life

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...27272882908697

Amish Paridise

http://video.yahoo.com/video/play?vi...1&fr=yfp-t-471

Ohio Valley Amish

http://video.yahoo.com/video/play?vi...4&fr=yfp-t-471

Here I thought you found a link to the 2002 documentary "Devil's Playground" that exposes Rumspringa.

post it if you have it. The Devils playground shows an accurate portrayal of Rumspringa for some Amish, but I think not the majority. Beer parties and drugs are not standard practice for most who experience "Rumspringa"

This reminds me of the time I almost met Emma. She was too busy shopping to stop and chat with me though. She said something about needing "paper products" and then hurried inside.
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/c...hais/etown.jpg

No I don't, nor could I find one, but I've seen it.

According to my Amish and ex-Amish friends it is the norm, not the exception.

It would likely be the norm for ex-Amish and Amish who would be your friends, but I have not seen this to be typical for all the youth - especially those who have no serious thoughts of leaving the Amish..

I didn't say all. Naturally those that are going to stay are more rooted and aren't likely to indulge. One of my amish friends is a 16 year old boy that got baptized straightway just the other day and didn't mess with any foolishness. His parents are friends of ours as well and they know how we feel about Rumspringa to begin with.

Our ex-Amish friends are apostolic and have no stock in concealing their lifelong Amish experience.

I am saying that this documentary outlines what is more common than not, especially with regards to acute alcohol abuse. They aren't all turning into meth heads, no.

I still disagree. There are very very few alcoholics among the Amish.

Rumspinga is not a bad thing. It simply means "running around" and means the same thing as joining the youth group. Some do abuse the newfound liberties given at that age.

Well that was very nice of you, Stephen. I left my days work to come over to ILG's to see this. It is certainly a worldly video. That woman in the black dress was showing a lot of leg. :eek: You shouldn't be watching such things.

I think that was Jonas Beachy doing that dance with those other Amish men. I will talk to the Bishop about this. He has been sneaking out of his house at nights lately. We thought he was going to the bonnetless men's club but come to find out he is dancing. :naughty

I am happy to see you thinking about your roots. Maybe you will end your eternal rumspringa. ;)

Yes, Emma....Tell him.

Here is a link to much information if you are studying your culture, little Emma.

http://www.goshen.edu/english/ervinb.../ervinbib.html

It is a selected bibliography of Mennonite and Amish Folklore and Folk Arts

That was <sniff> so beautiful. :tissue I have never seen anything so touching..honk.

I couldn't get this one to play. It is a sign from God.

I am sorry. I don't talk to Englischers much. I am afraid of them. And those paper products are very important. I am happy they are not verboten. :bouquet

Oh, I don't think so. :(

This looks very good, but I will have to read it another time.

Thank you, ma'am. :)

I'll take it from real Amish characters before I will a mockery.

Emma isn't exactly what I would call a mockery. But seriously, Steve Hoover ought to know, if you don't agree with Emma. I think that both Steve and Emma agree that it does happen, but to say it is the norm is, I think, an exaggeration. That's kind of like saying Apostolic kids all throw off the long dresses and long hair etc. and go party down. Well, some do, but I couldn't say most. The documentary was based on a few lives of kids who were so far away from the Amish roots they were willing to be in a documentary. That says something right there.

Emma I would acknowledge this - that the wild parties are a "normal" occurrance for any sizable gathering among the Amish and even many OOM parties of rumspringa age. I do not think it's fair to say it is normal for all or most to engage in the wildest activities though. In my experience, and I have been to my share - even a few of the Amish ones - there are usally about three divisions at a "Rumspringa Singing".

1. The striaght ones - ultracons if you will. These sing the German and English songs and see the "Singing" in it's original sense. Fellowship, singing, possibly dating.

2. The moderates - representing perhaps 70% of the Rumspinga group - they may or may not sing - but the clear focus is to have a good time. Smoking (though it is currently changing) and even an occaisional drink is cool and accepted as it is among most of their parents. This group has major hoe-downs in the form of square dancing to a caller and perhaps a harmonica, accordian or Jew's Harp. Like the ultra-cons they are quite committed to the Amish way of life though some consider a less rigid life as a Plain Person who is allowed an automobile.(meaning they may consider becoming New Order Amish or Mennonite)

3. Are the WILD ones they will have plenty of alcohol, possibly drugs, hard rock and roll at their disposal. Most of these will get a car with no clear plans for the future. They get the media attention when their drunkness or drugs lands them in jail or fined with a DWI.


Natually, these groups have crossovers, but in my experience these three do exist quite clearly.
There is also a substancial difference between various districts and states. So the percentages would change some.

I felt that Devil's Playground gave this group the vast majority of the media attention. I felt it was biased towards rock and roll, smoking, doing drugs and having sex.

I have no doubt you are correct. I was sick watching it knowing it did not accurately represent the majority of Amish youth.

It follows a few lives in detail, however there are more than a few lives representing the extreme "crossover" section of what Stephen calls "moderates." (Sin is sin, you can't "moderate" it and call it all good BTW) My connections have friends and family that they can pick out in the background of the film. They expound on what they know of their lives and I assure you that this documentary hardly begins to cover the scope of the situation. My contacts tell me that this isn't the half of it by a long shot.

To make it simple for you, the Devil's Playground is a thin, thin cross section. And those that get caught and gain publicity are also only a small percentage.

Just because you smell a little smoke doesn't mean that there is a little fire, for there is so much more smoke that has made its way well past your nostrils.

Not to mention your analogy is short. It's more like a bunch of apostolic kids serving their flesh in just as much sin as those that look like the world while they wear their costumes. It becomes hard to tell who's who and what is what when mere appearance is no indication. If you're running with the devil in his pack, it matters little what you are wearing, he'll take you as you are, it's all the same to him as long as everyone all drinks of the same punch bowl.

Therefore, Rumspringa facilitates and thus indorses sin as a rule, it allows for it and thus invites, and it is the norm for Amish youth of that age, not the exception. No, not everyone becomes a meth head, I already covered that, but sin is sin. Rumspringa is a free gift of indulgences on a trial basis. Now then, whether they eventually join the Amish church, or a german counterpart, is somewhat beside the point. I know most eventually do, but that neither makes it right, a Godly practice, nor does it wash away their sins and make it all better.

The Devil's Playground reveals the essence of Rumspringa, even if in a 21st century wrapper. My sources indicate that it is not as bias as you might like to think.

So you know what Rumspringa literally means? Does this speak to you of innocent Christian sin free fun for the youth?

The basic wisdom is that the kids will get "it" out of system and join the church after a time of "courtship." Who are they courting besides one another? Christ?

I suppose it works, but is it without knowingly commiting sin....is it of God? No.

This ain't no ice cream social. I don't care what Wikipedia says!

I didn't say that it was normal for all, but rather the norm and not the exception just as you are saying here. Nor did I intend to suggest that most participate in the wildest of activities. I should hope not. In comparison, even the milder activities should be cause for Christian alarm.

I'm not raising my kids to throw them at the devil at that impressionable age just to see if they sink or swim. They are making knowledgeable decisions to be baptized into Christ now of their own free will. They are learning even at a young age what true Godly courtship is really all about with respect for their ability to grasp certain concepts as they go. They'll be no barnyard courtships in my backyard under the light of the lantern. Why?

We believe in raising them up right in the Way that they should go and being consistent all the way through. When youth have a real relationship with Christ, "running around" means putting in an honest days work.


Thank you for making my point clearer.

I believe it accurately represents the majority of Rumspringa in essense...and yes, it made me sick too.

I was really glad to make friends with a 16 year old young man that commited to the Amish and boycotted the nonsense. I don't agree with all of that Biblically, but from his perception it was a move toward what is right, and in comparision, it was. It was very refreshing to see an Amish youth with such a presense of mind as to reject foolish unBiblical and unChristian traditions outright based on their own lack of merit.

Perhaps he'll eventually have an eye about the rest.

BTW Stephen, did you by chance view the 20/20 expose involving the Amish. That made me sicker.

Well spoken. I have the documentary on DVD. I was very surprised that the Amish would allow such a time for their children. Whether they jump into the world as seen in the documentary or do something of a lessor nature that is yet wrong, it is as if the wrongdoing is endorsed by the group. I cannot fathom allowing young kids to partake in this. Giving them space to decide if they want to join the Amish community is one thing, deliberately giving them an okay to do things they have taught against is totally another. To me, it's mind boggling.

Sarge, I can agree with what you say here as it seems a litlte more balanced than what RD Cox is saying. My view of rumspringa (which means running around) is that as a tradition it is not biblical and it is quite loose. However, RD Cox names a few "contacts" that he has with the Amish as his basis for his opinion. On the flipside, Steve Hoover is obviously the real expert here, having been raised in it himself. I personally am drawing on my extensive study of the Amish. Yes, I have also seen rumspringa pictures on the web as well as on Devil's Playground complete with beer parties and tales of abortion. Yes, it happens. But there is a difference between it happening and it being shown as the norm and sensationalized. A person making a documentary could easily go into the UPC and choose a few churches that are extreme and tell tales of sexual escapades amongst the ministry and people being rebuked publically and all that. They could then cite the legalism about uncut hair and dresses etc. and make the UPC look like a huge cult. I think there is a difference between a Jim Jones cult and the UPC. The UPC has cultic tendencies and has quite a bit of legalism in it. I think these things also facilitate the scandals and make them worse with cover-ups etc. However, to make it appear that ALL the UPC is that way is a different thing. These things do happen among the Amish youth. I personally think it is a shame. However, I also believe that there are Amish youth that do not go hog wild. What Steven Hoover said about the 3 types is basically about how I see it. From what I understand, the Amish in Lancaster County PA have the most trouble with rumspringa because there are SO many Amish there and so many types of churches etc. Many parents are concerned with this so one of the solutions is to move to an area where rumspringa is not so open. Another issue in the rumspringa/courting stage is bed courtship. Not all districts practice this. (The boy and girl lay in bed, supposedly clothed and alone at night.) This is a controversial issue and from what I remember, is MORE likely to be practiced by the Swartzentruber Amish (but is also practiced by some of the Old Orders) which is even more conservative than the Old Order group. The reason for this is that they are least likely to break with the tradition. Steve can feel to correct me.

RD, I find your exposure to the plain people as interesting yet uninformed in some ways.

In your posts you indicate Rumspringa is terrible thing - an endorsement of sin and something sanctioned by the parents of youth.

Herein lies your misunderstanding. Rumspringa is a wonderful and celebrated time in a young persons life. The word is literally translated "around running" or "running around" and the actual meaning is "running around with the youth group".

It is not a bad thing in any sense of the word and all Amish and plain people experience this. It is a coming of age - a time when parents know there hold on the young adults is minimal and the church has absolutely no power over them because they are yet to become members. A time when a relationship with God and the church is desired by the elders for their children, but they know it is a matter of the heart, and a decision that cannot be imposed.

Again, there are those who indulge in sinful activities during this time but I know of no sanctioning of drunkeness, drugs, or immorality. The church actively preaches against these things, but their reach of enforcement is obviously only to the membership and not beyond.

I realize media is at least partially responsible for the misconception.

Steve Hoover

Oh yes, very sickening indeed - just like hundreds of news stories of scandal of those who attend a Baptist or Pentecostal church.

I understand your wonder at this seeing you too misunderstand the concept. The "coming of age" is not so much something that is granted by the parents or the church. It is simply something that occurs naturally in all cultures and religions. There are some that do abuse their newfound liberties - and sometimes parents do turn a blind eye because their dwindling authority has no real teeth to make enforcement otherwise.

The Amish sanction no sinful living and no breaking of the rules of the church - in fact quite the opposite is true - they enforce their rules on threat of excommunication and expulsion from closed church communion. The church has no real authority over those who are expelled or have yet to become Amish. There is an in-house debate concerning the tolerance of the parents when youth go wayward. Many will not expell a child from the home if they get a car or endulge in even sinful activities. If they do, it often seems to drive the youth even further from the church and lesson the likelyhood of them becoming compliant members in the future.

The Devils Playground is a documentary in the style of Micheal Moore.

For actual balance one should see the award winning PBS documentary, "The Amish: A People of Preservation".

Was this the story about the young lady who was molested by several 'yutes' repeatedly while growing up?
We watched that ourselves and about half way through, saw a road sign while the she was being filmed driving and said "what the.....". It was a road a few miles from our house. This particular community is in our own county.

That would be the one.

I guess what I read Sarge to be saying is that it is mind boggling....the practice of rumspringa itself. Yes, there is in-house debate...which is why some people end up moving to a different district to try and keep their young from straying too far. The truth is that, although I do agree that the Amish church is not by any means sanctioning the activities of sin during rumspringa, it is a tradition that "English" people would find mind boggling in that a coming of age in the English culture is generally one that is supposed to be balanced by responsibility....not just a cutting loose when one turns 16 and the parents and church saying "We are not responsible". It really is granted by the Amish parents and church by default in the tradition because the kids know that at 16 the church and parents will allow this. So, it is mind boggling to some extent that the Amish church practices this as a tradition. A mere coming of age is not the same thing.

Thank you, ILG. That would be correct. While the church may have no hold on them, the parents surely do and as so many of us heard while growing up, "as long as you live in my house....," the parents can make a definite stand against any sinful behavior. If they do not, to me it would be the same as condoning it. And to do such is mind boggling, indeed.

The extent of the tolerance would vary from district to district and family to family I am sure...

But from my own experience as an Old Order Mennonite and a limited exposure to the Amish, I would say this tolerance is still less than that of society at large and even that of many parents I know in Pentecostal churches. I know parents who "allow" teenagers to drop out of school and lay around watching TV without a job or responsibility.

Sarge and ILG, Do you think a teen should be kicked out of his parents home if he starts smoking cigarettes or has had sex with his girlfriend? Even though I would certainly not condone such activity, I am not sure it would automatically mean removal from the premises. Nor do I think it would speak of tolerance of such in my church whether or not my teen was still attending.