Pastor Wendell Elms, TX, defends standards on local news channel
 

Following Faith: The Pentecostal Church

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All month we're learning more about different relegions. Tonight, we focus on the Pentecostal Church.You may have seen followers in the community and wondered why the women only wear dresses. They do it to give god praise. And there is nothing that will stop them. "Women stay in dresses regardless." Pastor Wendell Elms insists wearing skirts or dresses isn't forced upon the women in his United Pentecostal Church. It's something they do to honor God, something many would consider a fundamental lifestyle.

"In function, men wear pants, because they work. They have to put themselves in situations that to see a lady in that situation is compromising." Wearing pants isn't the only thing these Pentecostal women abstain from. They don't wear make-up, jewlery or cut their hair. "There are boundaries that we put up to help us to stay Christians, that help us to be Christians."

And these boundaries don't reach far outside the home. Elms says the bible clearly define's a woman's role .

"They were keepers of the home, and that's a full-time job. They were submitted to their husbands and submitted to the word of God." He explains it's not hard to live this way, it's a spiritual choice. "When a person is filled with the spirit, something happens in their understanding of these things. Their eyes are opened to something that the world does not see."

And it's behind these doors where they find refuge and strength. Elms says this way of life was standard in America years ago but his church has no plans to fit in with secular society. "That's just a line we will not cross. We're not going to become like them just to make them feel comfortable." We are what we are. We're comfortable with what we are. We want the whole world to be this way." A world outside these doors. They do it to give God praise.

Story Created: Nov 12, 2007 at 6:27 PM CST
Story Updated: Nov 12, 2007 at 6:27 PM CST

http://www.kauz.com/home/ticker/11220801.html

Don't know if it was the media editing, but it seemed very one sided to me. Very male chauvinistic. Sorry, just MHO.

Slippery Slope
 

I must be on my way down the slippery slope. This just seems offensive to me.:13loads

Dang, I must be slipping UP the slope because it didn't bother me that much. I guess as a charismatic that should get me all upset or something.

:noidea

no way you are a charismatic. More like baptist.:tease

And the bible clearly defines a mans role as well. Once you get past hunter, fisherman, farmer, soldier, king or priest, there isn't much left.
Oh yes, and tax collector.

I am not totally offended, but I think it is a stupid thing to talk to standards to those who do not know they stand for. I am for personal convictions not standards as a dress code. I think it make them look idiotic to the unbeliever. Even though I do not agree with the standards I understand how people believe them. The part that upset me was, "When a person is filled with the spirit, something happens in their understanding of these things. Their eyes are opened to something that the world does not see." I agree our eyes are opened, but the reason God does that is to save us and bring us close to Him not so we can point out a 'fault' in society that has to do with dress code. Modest is hottest is a saying on a shirt my Sis-in-law has. Modesty is the key...DS....you have every right to be upset. I am with ya

It's very interesting to me that someone would go on the Devilvison and promote standards. When our church split, the people doing the splitting came at my pastor from all angles. When people in the community ask what happened and why did our church split, the best thing I can say to people is "my pastor wouldn't say women were going to hell for wearing pants and cutting their hair".
Now tell me how does that come across to the community. A community that already feels it can't get holy enough to come through the local UPC's doors.

Of course its offensive. Do you know what that sounds like to the unbeliever or the non UPC? It sounds like women shouldn't get an education because they don't need a career because they just need to stay home. That's their FULL time job. I'm a stay-at-home and I'm offended.

I agree 100% with you. It looks so childish really. Even nowadays if you ask a churched person (ie. baptist, methodist, etc) about these things they will laugh at you. I lived in a town in Ill and there was an Apostolic church around the corner from the UPC church. I met the pastor one day and we talked about standards. He said that he had tried to get with the UPC pastor over the years and fellowship but the UPC church wouldn't because of standards. The community did not understand it. I didn't understand it then. Now I understand elitism when I see it.

That word says it all!

seems to me they only asked a 1 sided question.

To borrow a term from Reggie Jackson, Elitism is the 'straw that stirs the drink' in the Pentecostal movement. I know some will disagree, but truth hurts sometimes. I can say it cause I was taugh it and followed it.

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why one should be very careful about granting interviews to the press. I bet you this crew took a lot more footage and asked a lot more questions . . . but then only focused on making this church look like a cult or some crazy place that represses women. I'll hand it to the news crew, they did a great job spinning the story. I imagine even if this pastor spoke of community outreach for 30 minutes and standards for 5, the crew wouldn't have changed their focus.

Nice hack job by the local media.

What would the pastor expect.......That's what you get for not having a TV and understanding how the media works. Most churches do community outreach, most church do alot of the same things, why would you report about that? That's nothing new. A church where women are sacrificing style for the sake of "holiness" now that is news.

"Women should be keepers of the home"?

I may be different/liberal; but in my house we both work. It takes us both to maitain our house. Both incomes, both working to gether to keep things in order.

VERY Chauvanistic and extremely UC pentecost!

I went to UPC Churches for 40 years. Back when I was younger many of the girls I knew did not dress with standards willfully.

Many of my sisters and cousins friends same thing.

The thing is if you do not abide then you can't do anything in the church.

That is not doing anything willfully...

Great point Neck. I wonder how many would drop jaw if they knew what was going on behind closed doors

There is a pastor in my area who is dead-set against TV. Funny thing is at least 70% of the church has them in their homes including board members.

This is what people need to learn.....when granting interviews to the press, YOU YOURSELF also record what is going on. When the press edits to their liking...show an unedited version. The video does not lie.

Article states....

Give me a break!! This is one of the most laughable statements made by a UPC preacher in a while. Not FORCED upon the women??? What would happen if they walked in with pants.....see if the reaction is the same and see if it is not FORCED. Maybe FORCED is the wrong word.....STRONGLY ENCOURAGED!!

YIKES! Nothing good comes from answering those q's or having that conversation with media. Too much mis-understood. I am sure there was much more discussed that never made the report, but you have to know that and never answer any of those specific q's. Tennis shoes, socks, and long skirts.....never good.

When will they learn............ Is this church located in mississippi???????????????????? :largehalo

Right. I am very much in favor of mothers staying home with small children, but not to the exclusion of education. The window of child rearing is 10 -20 years, the average career nowdays is 50 years.

That's because, when they looked at the Pentecostals that is all they saw, what if they were a little closer to the culture in appearance, would the reporter have asked about the spirit he was talking about???

That was no hack job, it was simply addressing the obvious, don't blame the media, there was no hacking, only reporting.:bubble

Once again I am reminded why I don't come to this board very often any more!

You folks are so stereotypical and biased toward your liberal gobbledy gook! You have become worldly, not because of your dress or appearance, but because you have embraced the secular world view of the home and all associated with it!

Why be offended? Isn't that what the bible says??


Titus 2:5

5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.
KJV


Although it doesn't say keepers of the home but keepers at home.


oikourgos

NT:3626 oikourgos (oy-koor-gos') or oikouros (oy-koo-ros'); from NT:3624 and ouros (a guard; be "ware"); a stayer at home, i.e. domestically inclined (a "good housekeeper"):


KJV - keeper at home.
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

Not at all, I believe the scripture tells us that the people of the world are wiser than the children of the kingdom. Knock them out with oddity and you never get the opportunity for them to see and hear your heart. Most on here are UC compared to the world, we all participate in the culture to varying degrees by necessity.

Good to see you Bro. Phil.:hanky

We are worldly? Too funny, PJ. We are giving our opinion on the matter of the article. You are sooooo predictable. Talk about sterotypical...Geesh! You have :noidea

thankyou for straightening the "Interviewee" in question out. He misquoted the scripture. I apologize for not reading for myself before I jumped to conclusions. Must still be some dumb-saint left in me.

And also when the ministry starts paying my bills then they can decide who works. I would love to see the amount of preachers who live off their wives income. I know two right here in my city.

Dear Dr. Phil, what is a secular view of the home?

sincerely,

G. Gook

Good heavens, I am wondering why I didn't see that the reporter or news anchor droping everything, running to the front to receive the Name, revelation, tongues, leaving their jewelry at the front, repenting??

I think the UPC should give a class to all their ministers how to explain standards, this was pathetic good old fashioned UPC-speak that only the blue-haired ladies in his church could probably identify with. You wonder why the UPC is losing relevance? Here is a good example.

I wonder how many ladies in church would take issue with what he said.

Has NEWMAN been to this thread yet?

I hope women are offended the way he presented it.

The part I noticed was when he said standards were to help them stay christians. I've been around long enough to know otherwise.

Can one be a keeper at home and work outside the home at the same time. for he record my wife works.

Actually he would have been better off to say "we insist that..." like a good Baptist would do about their beliefs. He attempted to waffle on it and it came off poorly. To argue the semantics of "force" and "we encourage" is meaningless. It's not forced as long as you don't want to be a member or involved.

That is the point I'm trying to make but not what he presented. Excuse my crudeness.

Personally I have very little respect for a man that does not pitch in around the house...especially if his wife works full time. But of course that is seemingly a secular viewpoint.

Our pastor stated something to the effect that even if a wife works, her focus should be the home. It's her domain. A husband should support her in such. And yes, us men should help around the house and with the kids. If the husband is suppose to be like Christ in the home, then who should be the greatest servant in the home?????


As far as the interview, i think we should give some grace to the pastor. he's probably not used to being interviewed on a news camera. And maybe he said some stuff in way he might take back now and wish he said it different. Kinda like after preaching i look backed and could have said some things different or didn't mean it like it sounded.

I don't like what he said regarding standards help them stay christains, but maybe he doesn't mean it the way it sounds.

:bumpsign

I am certain that this was edited so much that we actually have no idea what the actual interview was like! No apostolic should ever allow themselves to interviewed without insuring that the entire interview will be played.

Oh boy, from the post that I had read so far, that footage didnt go over very well here.

Wonder what the viewers thought????

I agree on all points to a certain extent. I think the pastor said what he meant and if anything was edited more than likely sounded even more ridiculous. One chance....first impression comes to mind.

There are ladies/wives that have stressful high pressure jobs. For those types it would have to be a shared focus. JMO