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votivesoul 04-08-2021 07:39 PM

Re: Trinitarians Who Baptize in Jesus Name
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968 (Post 1602270)
Can we say a trinitarian believer?

No, we cannot, if you are referring to me, since and because I am not a Trinitarian.

votivesoul 04-08-2021 07:49 PM

Re: Trinitarians Who Baptize in Jesus Name
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968 (Post 1602271)
I don't think so.

When I say Oneness forefathers, I am referring to people like G. T. Haywood, Frank Ewart, Andrew Urshan, Frank Bartleman, Howard Goss, and the like.

Quote:

Ever since the inception of the church, there has always been a church. Meaning those that believe that Jesus Christ is God, not a second person in the fictional trinity, but that he is God. We're there some that believe in the Trinity doctrine? Absolutely, yet they came out of that darkness into his marvelous light.
Yes, the church has always existed since Pentecost.

And every Trinitarian believes Jesus Christ is God. Find me one who didn't in the past, or currently doesn't. It is sine qua non. One of the defining cornerstones of Trinitarian theology is that Jesus is God. You can't be a Trinitarian in any regular, traditional sense and not believe He is God at the same time.

votivesoul 04-08-2021 07:56 PM

Re: Trinitarians Who Baptize in Jesus Name
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968 (Post 1602281)
I believe you have to believe in the truth that Jesus is God.

Again, name a Trinitarian that doesn't believe Jesus is God.

Quote:

Do you have to have a theological degree on the oneness to be saved? No, I don’t believe so.
That is good, because the litmus test of salvation is obedience to the Gospel, not a degree in theology proper.

Quote:

I do believe you will be lost if you believe in the trinity...
Even though Trinitarians believe Jesus is God??? See above.

Quote:

...that means three co-equal, co- eternal, co-existing gods, or the catholic trinity of three individual gods in one body.
That IS NOT what the trinity is, and NO TRINITARIAN BELIEVES in three individual gods in one body.

When is this bearing of false witness going to end? Many Oneness people routinely caricaturize and misrepresent Trinitarian views on the Godhead and then proceed to critique and judge and condemn Trinitarians based off of those very caricatures and misrepresentations. It is a shame and not worthy of Christ.

Do unto others that which you would have others do unto you. If you don't want people caricaturizing and misrepresenting what you believe, how about not doing so to others, just so you can have your strawman and beat it, too.

votivesoul 04-08-2021 08:08 PM

Re: Trinitarians Who Baptize in Jesus Name
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968 (Post 1602316)
Again, what does the son refer to?

I never said Jesus was never the son of God. The question asked was, is he currently the son of God.

John 8:35,

Quote:

And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
How long does the Son abide?

Ever: from the Greek word aion, meaning "an age, a cycle (of time), especially of the present age as contrasted with the future age, and of one of a series of ages stretching to infinity", the Greek (LXX) equivalent to the Hebrew word olam, meaning "an unbroken age, perpetuity of time, eternity"

See: https://biblehub.com/greek/165.htm

Compare to John 6:51 and John 6:58, which uses the same Greek word for "for ever" as in:

"...he shall live for ever..." and "...shall live for ever..." respectively.

See:

https://biblehub.com/interlinear/john/6-51.htm
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/john/6-58.htm

So, if anyone wants to argue aion should only mean "age" in John 8:35, then please convince us that aion doesn't mean "age" in John 6:51 and 58.

Same with Matthew 6:13, that the kingdom, power, and glory of God the Father only endures for an "age".

votivesoul 04-08-2021 08:09 PM

Re: Trinitarians Who Baptize in Jesus Name
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968 (Post 1602319)
Who died on the cross, God or the Son?

To the Son, he saith, Thy throne, O God is for ever and ever... (Hebrews 1:8).

Note, too, Isaiah 9:6-7.

A son is given...and the son's kingdom shall have no end. It shall be established forever (in Hebrew olam, or in the LXX, aion referenced in post #94 above).

See: https://biblehub.com/interlinear/isaiah/9-7.htm and https://biblehub.com/sepd/isaiah/9.htm noting αἰῶνα in verse 7.

votivesoul 04-08-2021 08:19 PM

Re: Trinitarians Who Baptize in Jesus Name
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TGBTG (Post 1602321)
Yes, God is still manifested in flesh. Jesus literally called himself the son of God in the book of revelation. That would show that God is still manifested in flesh (albeit, now with a glorified body)

Colossian 2:9,

For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Dwelleth: κατοικεῖ (katoikei), meaning to settle down into, or permanently reside.

Note, κατοικεῖ (katoikei) is conjugated as present indicative active, meaning, constant, continuous or uninterrupted activity.

See: https://biblehub.com/interlinear/colossians/2-9.htm and https://biblehub.com/greek/2730.htm

This means that the Godhead not only dwelt in Christ Jesus bodily, it currently still does as a constant, continuous or uninterrupted reality.

votivesoul 04-08-2021 08:27 PM

Re: Trinitarians Who Baptize in Jesus Name
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968 (Post 1602324)
In the Old Covenant it's says I sought for a man to stand in the hedge and make up the gap. The mediator that brought us to God is the MAN Christ Jesus. The humanity, son, and or sacrifice brought us to God. Without the blood of Jesus being spotless, perfect there was no mediator.

Hebrews 9:15,

Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant...

He is: from Greek ἐστίν (estin), meaning to be, also conjugated as present indicative active, meaning constant, continuous, or uninterrupted activity.

Jesus was and still is, and always will be, the mediator of the New Covenant.

Now, a mediator is not a mediator of one, but rather, of two (Galatians 3:20), which is to say, in this case, God, and man (1 Timothy 2:5).

Jesus the same yesterday, today, and for ever (Hebrews 13:8, Greek for "for ever" is aion already referenced in post #94).

See: https://biblehub.com/interlinear/hebrews/9-15.htm and https://biblehub.com/greek/1510.htm and https://biblehub.com/interlinear/hebrews/13-8.htm

Nicodemus1968 04-08-2021 08:56 PM

Re: Trinitarians Who Baptize in Jesus Name
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TGBTG (Post 1602332)
Again, when did this happen? I have given you my answer to your question about who died on the cross, is Jesus still the son of God today.
So can you say when the humanity (to use your words) stopped being the son of God?

What was the purpose of God manifesting in the flesh? To fulfill the plan he had from the foundation of the world. To provide a perfect sacrifice to cover all our sins with the atoning blood. Paul said it better, his sacrifice did what the blood of bulls and goats could not do.

I believe after his ascention the humanity was no longer needed.
He rose that body from the grave, appeared to his disciples and others to prove his power of death, hell, and the grave.

God is a Spirit, the son of God (humanity) was not God. The spirit inside Humanity was God, not the flesh. The flesh or the humanity was just a vessel to be the sacrifice. I don't believe in divine flesh, I don't believe Jesus is a physical, natural Jew up in heaven somewhere.

Nicodemus1968 04-08-2021 09:02 PM

Re: Trinitarians Who Baptize in Jesus Name
 
Allow me to plainly ask, in heaven right now what is God in the form of and what is Jesus in the form of?

Is there humanity in the spiritual dimension of Heaven?

Nicodemus1968 04-08-2021 09:07 PM

Re: Trinitarians Who Baptize in Jesus Name
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by votivesoul (Post 1602335)
When I say Oneness forefathers, I am referring to people like G. T. Haywood, Frank Ewart, Andrew Urshan, Frank Bartleman, Howard Goss, and the like.



Yes, the church has always existed since Pentecost.

And every Trinitarian believes Jesus Christ is God. Find me one who didn't in the past, or currently doesn't. It is sine qua non. One of the defining cornerstones of Trinitarian theology is that Jesus is God. You can't be a Trinitarian in any regular, traditional sense and not believe He is God at the same time.

The very essence of the trinitarian belief is that there is God the father, Jesus the son, and Holy Spirit. Three separate co- equal, co- eternal, co- existing Gods. They may claim that Jesus is God yet when you believe in three or two then itís no longer a belief in God.


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