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-   -   Car Crashes Through a Parade in Wisconsin? (https://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=54591)

Evang.Benincasa 12-08-2021 10:33 AM

Re: Car Crashes Through a Parade in Wisconsin?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by coksiw (Post 1606685)
They killed the true spirit of giving in the NT church. They killed it with coercion based on falsehood.

Listen, the pendulum swings in both direction. You are formulating a defense against another doctrine based on emotions. "Doctrine X will cause people to lose out with God, etc, etc, etc." Plain and simple, but we find out, given enough time, that which either way you swing, you might end up swinging so far out you are as incorrect as the doctrine you seem to be against.

Evang.Benincasa 12-08-2021 10:36 AM

Re: Car Crashes Through a Parade in Wisconsin?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister (Post 1606681)
Of course this is false. If everyone gave all, what happened to the gift? Did it just pile up and eventually rot away?

The truth is that for every gift there was a receiver of that gift. So some were givers and some were receivers. None had any need because why? Because the gift was distributed to all who had need.

And to assume that it was all this way or all that way and continued to be so would be an error. If it was always a situation where everyone was always giving to others, why did the Grecian widows complain that they weren’t getting their share?

https://media3.giphy.com/media/8b9Xa...kAimGm/200.gif

Nicodemus1968 12-08-2021 10:57 AM

Re: Car Crashes Through a Parade in Wisconsin?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by coksiw (Post 1606684)
The sold possession in Jerusalem as an act of hospitality to those that just converted and were there for Pentecost and wanted to stay longer to hear the doctrine of the Apostles. They responded to the need with great hospitality and sold possession, and nowhere said they gave the apostles all the salary for their labor or trade, which was probably the majority of the people. Possession is different than income. It talks about people with properties selling them to support the apostles ministry of thousands, and new brethren from abroad, ( and of course, widows and such as well). Read those verses in Acts in context: Pentecost, lots of people from many places in Jerusalem just converted, no Credit Cards, just enough to leave the next day, and now wanting to stay longer.


Another thing, after this event was done, you don't see that outpouring of hospitality and people selling all the things in ACTS or in the EPISTLES. Why? because there wasn't such a need. Instead, the did collections to support the widows and people in need within the congregation, and one time to support the church of Jerusalem, and even in this case, Paul asks to do a regular collection as people can give.

The "they gave it all" meaning "100% of all the income" (because they are contrasting with 10% tithing) is garbage teaching. Was only one event, for an extraordinary need, and it wasn't of income but of possessions.

Let's stop butchering the Scriptures to prove modern tithing please. It gets old.

The first century church after the Apostles passed didn't give 100% of their income either. No evidences of it.

Brother I wasn’t referring to tithing. I meant their lives, their treasure, their time, their families, they’re jobs.

Matthew 4:22 KJV
[22] And they immediately left the ship and their father, and followed him.


Matthew 19:21 KJV
[21] Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.


Matthew 19:27 KJV
[27] Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?


2 Corinthians 11:23-28 KJV
[23] Are they ministers of Christ? (I speak as a fool) I am more; in labours more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequent, in deaths oft.
[24] Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one.
[25] Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned, thrice I suffered shipwreck, a night and a day I have been in the deep;
[26] In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren;
[27] In weariness and painfulness, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness.
[28] Beside those things that are without, that which cometh upon me daily, the care of all the churches.


By reading these verses if the church needed something or someone in the church needed something they would gladly give it. If someone was traveling to preach (man or women) this gospel I couldn’t see Paul or Peter putting up a fuss to help support.

We have people in the church today that judge others because they’re not doing something exactly like they did it in the time of Jesus. And I’m sure you has some in the times of Jesus that complained because they were not doing certain traditions like there fathers.

Evang.Benincasa 12-08-2021 11:06 AM

Re: Car Crashes Through a Parade in Wisconsin?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968 (Post 1606697)
Brother I wasn’t referring to tithing. I meant their lives, their treasure, their time, their families, they’re jobs.

Matthew 4:22 KJV
[22] And they immediately left the ship and their father, and followed him.


Matthew 19:21 KJV
[21] Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.


Matthew 19:27 KJV
[27] Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?


2 Corinthians 11:23-28 KJV
[23] Are they ministers of Christ? (I speak as a fool) I am more; in labours more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequent, in deaths oft.
[24] Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one.
[25] Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned, thrice I suffered shipwreck, a night and a day I have been in the deep;
[26] In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren;
[27] In weariness and painfulness, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness.
[28] Beside those things that are without, that which cometh upon me daily, the care of all the churches.


By reading these verses if the church needed something or someone in the church needed something they would gladly give it. If someone was traveling to preach (man or women) this gospel I couldn’t see Paul or Peter putting up a fuss to help support.

We have people in the church today that judge others because they’re not doing something exactly like they did it in the time of Jesus. And I’m sure you has some in the times of Jesus that complained because they were not doing certain traditions like there fathers.

I think the main issue is that modern "Christians" only see church as a building, church attendance as the main duty, and the time behind the pulpit as the only place anyone is a minister. Tithe is considered to be a cover charge, and those who accept it as soul hustlers. Good God in Zion!

coksiw 12-08-2021 12:07 PM

Re: Car Crashes Through a Parade in Wisconsin?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa (Post 1606690)
Listen, the pendulum swings in both direction. You are formulating a defense against another doctrine based on emotions. "Doctrine X will cause people to lose out with God, etc, etc, etc." Plain and simple, but we find out, given enough time, that which either way you swing, you might end up swinging so far out you are as incorrect as the doctrine you seem to be against.

False doctrines always have bad consequences. It is not all just arguing about the text to see who is correct or incorrect, you know?

Tithesmeister 12-08-2021 12:13 PM

Re: Car Crashes Through a Parade in Wisconsin?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by coksiw (Post 1606699)
False doctrines always have bad consequences. It is not all just arguing about the text to see who is correct or incorrect, you know?

Amen

Nicodemus1968 12-08-2021 02:02 PM

Re: Car Crashes Through a Parade in Wisconsin?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa (Post 1606698)
I think the main issue is that modern "Christians" only see church as a building, church attendance as the main duty, and the time behind the pulpit as the only place anyone is a minister. Tithe is considered to be a cover charge, and those who accept it as soul hustlers. Good God in Zion!

I do agree. :thumbsup


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