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Tithesmeister 03-14-2021 02:38 PM

Re: Sons Inheriting Churches from Fathers $$$
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by leftcoast1 (Post 1601850)
None of the above.

Brother leftcoast1: If you donít mind, could you respond to some of these allegations specifically?

Are you a pastor?

Dis you go to the installation service?

Did you aspire to pastor this church?

Did the membership vote him in as pastor?

Or did they have a new pastor installed regardless of their opinion?

I think these are all questions that deserve truthful answers.

Itís not okay to say that if God isnít in it, then it will amount to nothing. The church in the New Testament didnít say that. It was the Jewish leadership that said that. Itís definitely not a model for the church to follow IMHO.

leftcoast1 03-14-2021 02:44 PM

Re: Sons Inheriting Churches from Fathers $$$
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister (Post 1601851)
Brother leftcoast1: If you donít mind, could you respond to some of these allegations specifically?

Are you a pastor?

Dis you go to the installation service?

Did you aspire to pastor this church?

Did the membership vote him in as pastor?

Or did they have a new pastor installed regardless of their opinion?

I think these are all questions that deserve truthful answers.

Itís not okay to say that if God isnít in it, then it will amount to nothing. The church in the New Testament didnít say that. It was the Jewish leadership that said that. Itís definitely not a model for the church to follow IMHO.

No to all of your questions.

As far as what the membership voted on, Iím assuming no.

Tithesmeister 03-14-2021 02:49 PM

Re: Sons Inheriting Churches from Fathers $$$
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by leftcoast1 (Post 1601852)
No to all of your questions.

As far as what the membership voted on, Iím assuming no.

TJJJ?

TJJJ 03-14-2021 05:25 PM

Re: Sons Inheriting Churches from Fathers $$$
 
Sounds good. Apparently lefty just woke up, not knowing anything about La Grande except what..... someone told him, researched James P, that many dont even know exists, and began a thread?

Coincidence? I think not.


The charges he brings about that assembly are false though. There are good men that are on the board, the church is having good solid growth, people are getting the HG, sounds like God is pleased with the transition...

Is lefty going to withdraw his false statements about the assembly and J Parker practicing nepotism?

Random......

"Snort...."

Tithesmeister 03-14-2021 05:38 PM

Re: Sons Inheriting Churches from Fathers $$$
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TJJJ (Post 1601856)
Sounds good. Apparently lefty just woke up, not knowing anything about La Grande except what..... someone told him, researched James P, that many dont even know exists, and began a thread?

Coincidence? I think not.


The charges he brings about that assembly are false though. There are good men that are on the board, the church is having good solid growth, people are getting the HG, sounds like God is pleased with the transition...

Is lefty going to withdraw his false statements about the assembly and J Parker practicing nepotism?

Random......

"Snort...."

Brother,

You said that leftcoast1 went to the meeting. He says that he didnít.

You said that he had designs to be pastor the church. He denies having such aspirations.

You say he brought false accusations of nepotism? Well, I donít hear anybody denying that his son was installed as pastor, or even that he had something to do with it. Which leans heavily towards nepotism.

You pretended to know what was going on. Then you checked it out. It seems that your credibility might be a bit weak.

What do you have to say for yourself?

Bro Flame 03-15-2021 09:11 AM

Re: Sons Inheriting Churches from Fathers $$$
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by navygoat1998 (Post 1601791)
Would that have been the Pentecostals of Gainesville?

I don't know of that church, so no it wasn't them.

Bro Flame 03-15-2021 09:12 AM

Re: Sons Inheriting Churches from Fathers $$$
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Originalist (Post 1601798)
But that was only because none of his sons wanted the church.

Are you talking about the church I spoke of in Florida? That elder and his wife don't have any sons that I'm aware of. I know they have two daughters and they're married to evangelists that came from other churches.

Originalist 03-15-2021 09:28 AM

Re: Sons Inheriting Churches from Fathers $$$
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968 (Post 1601836)
Because he is the established leader of that assembly.


And this bestows ownership and dictatorial powers upon him? How is this Biblical?

Originalist 03-15-2021 09:29 AM

Re: Sons Inheriting Churches from Fathers $$$
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bro Flame (Post 1601867)
Are you talking about the church I spoke of in Florida? That elder and his wife don't have any sons that I'm aware of. I know they have two daughters and they're married to evangelists that came from other churches.


The church I am referring to is about 30 minutes south of the one you are talking about.

Originalist 03-15-2021 09:34 AM

Re: Sons Inheriting Churches from Fathers $$$
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968 (Post 1601837)
One thing you and everyone else has to realize. Many of those saints there have been there for years. I believe when a Bro. Parker was given the church to Pastor back in 1988 or so, there was only 10-20 people. I believe there around 100 or more. They have multiple generations in the church. Iím not saying this just about you, yet, there are still churches, that still have saints, that still have trust in their Pastor or their leaders.

Having trust in one's pastors and elders is not in question. What is in question is the wisdom in church members adopting a dictatorial/autocratic/ authoritarian form of government for their assembly. In my opinion, the Southern Baptist model is not perfect, but far better than anything I have seen in the Apostolic ranks. It is a constitutional form of government based on the separation of powers.

Nicodemus1968 03-15-2021 10:03 AM

Re: Sons Inheriting Churches from Fathers $$$
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Originalist (Post 1601869)
And this bestows ownership and dictatorial powers upon him? How is this Biblical?

Not at all. I understand just as you do that theyíre are some Pastors who feel the need to be authoritarian in their ministry. I have recently been taught and now fully believe that there is 3 ways for a Pastor to lead.

1- You can lead as a King
2- You can lead as a Priest
3- You can lead as a Shepherd

Now with the topic at hand, I do believe that it is the Pastors responsibility to seek God for the exchange. I believe they should seek counsel from their elders. Even Paul as an Apostle charged Timothy with the work.

In this situation I don't believe this Pastor was acting as a Dictator. Other Pastors were involved, the saints of the church were involved, nothing was done in secret.

returnman 03-15-2021 11:33 AM

Re: Sons Inheriting Churches from Fathers $$$
 
I have posted in the past regarding NT church government that includes deacons and elders. Not just a formality of such that we see in most oneness churches. The typical oneness church practices that the pastor is like a CEO but also with limitations from board members. This scenario presented on this thread with or without name disclosure is practiced often and at times even when the receiving son shows little or no signs of desire for ministry until well into adulthood. My personal belief based on observation is that said current pastor assumes the passing of the torch at quite a young age as long as the son is available. This also reminds me of a quote I heard years ago from an aging pastor....."When I die or step down, sons name omitted, will be the pastor of this church, if your not ok with that then you can leave."

I think it was the desire for this pastor that his son have the torch passed to him before, during the down years and afterwards. The real question, if this is really the way it was intended and there was actual church government without fear or repercussion would there be considerations for someone else? Maybe there was, does anyone know?

Tithesmeister 03-15-2021 08:33 PM

Re: Sons Inheriting Churches from Fathers $$$
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by leftcoast1 (Post 1601783)
Does he have a board with voting privileges made up of members who ATTEND his church?

This is an important concern thatleftcoast1 has brought up. I have noticed that there is a trend whereby other pastors are appointed to the board of a church. Sometimes from several states away. It seems to be designed for increased control by the pulpit faction, while diminishing the influence of the local members.

Tithesmeister 03-15-2021 08:58 PM

Re: Sons Inheriting Churches from Fathers $$$
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by leftcoast1 (Post 1601783)
Does he have a board with voting privileges made up of members who ATTEND his church?

Quote:

Originally Posted by TJJJ (Post 1601765)
And how dare Jess give it to someone else and not you!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968 (Post 1601779)
I copied and txted your post to an elder that is good friends with Bro. Jesse Parker. In fact, this elder is the one that started the church in Lagrande and handed over the reins to Bro. Parker.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bro Flame (Post 1601788)

There is a rather large church I know of in Florida where the elder and his wife turned their congregation over to another preacher and his wife some two years ago. This preacher nor his wife are related to them, but they are good people that will carry on what the elder taught and stood for.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Originalist (Post 1601834)
How did it become HIS possession in the first place to be bestowed upon someone else at his will?

This is a brief compilation of comments that indicate the extent that the church is a possession of the pastor. Which is a pretty good example of the question I posed:

Is the pastor Godís gift to the church? (Which is the case according to scripture.)

Or maybe is the church Godís gift to the pastor? (As many, including pastors, seem to believe.)

leftcoast1 03-15-2021 11:53 PM

Re: Sons Inheriting Churches from Fathers $$$
 
Many times you will him them say, "this is my church and no one is going to come and steal it." I understand the sentiment if you sacrificed to build something but who's kingdom are you really building?

leftcoast1 03-16-2021 01:12 AM

Re: Sons Inheriting Churches from Fathers $$$
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TJJJ (Post 1601856)
Sounds good. Apparently lefty just woke up, not knowing anything about La Grande except what..... someone told him, researched James P, that many dont even know exists, and began a thread?

Coincidence? I think not.


The charges he brings about that assembly are false though. There are good men that are on the board, the church is having good solid growth, people are getting the HG, sounds like God is pleased with the transition...

Is lefty going to withdraw his false statements about the assembly and J Parker practicing nepotism?

Random......

"Snort...."

Who does the board consist of? Members from the local church or hand selected pastors which are more less a rubber stamp for critical decisions...such as installing your son as pastor.

Originalist 03-16-2021 06:01 AM

Re: Sons Inheriting Churches from Fathers $$$
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister (Post 1601883)
This is an important concern thatleftcoast1 has brought up. I have noticed that there is a trend whereby other pastors are appointed to the board of a church. Sometimes from several states away. It seems to be designed for increased control by the pulpit faction, while diminishing the influence of the local members.

Yes, we must obey our leaders without question.

loran adkins 03-16-2021 09:07 AM

Re: Sons Inheriting Churches from Fathers $$$
 
Wow this whole thread sounds out of left field by left coast. I don't know personally Jessy Parker, but I do know very personally his brother Joe Parker. Both of them started a church with UPCI and both have left the UPCI for different reasons. The fact remains that one thing that is very wrong is that until just the last ten years both of the Parkers churches were not rich and most of the church finances were because the pastor worked and the tithe went into running the church and not into the pastors pocket.

I would go as far as to say that that is the case still today. And even if Jessie has been full time in ministry I would go as far as to say he is in no way rich. Yes he may live in a nice house but who paid for it him, with his tree cutting business or the church?

Regardless the pastor does have the right to put up anyone he wants as pastor to take over the church he spent to much time and money putting together.

Originalist 03-16-2021 09:14 AM

Re: Sons Inheriting Churches from Fathers $$$
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by loran adkins (Post 1601894)
Wow this whole thread sounds out of left field by left coast. I don't know personally Jessy Parker, but I do know very personally his brother Joe Parker. Both of them started a church with UPCI and both have left the UPCI for different reasons. The fact remains that one thing that is very wrong is that until just the last ten years both of the Parkers churches were not rich and most of the church finances were because the pastor worked and the tithe went into running the church and not into the pastors pocket.

I would go as far as to say that that is the case still today. And even if Jessie has been full time in ministry I would go as far as to say he is in no way rich. Yes he may live in a nice house but who paid for it him, with his tree cutting business or the church?

Regardless the pastor does have the right to put up anyone he wants as pastor to take over the church he spent to much time and money putting together.

Certainly, anyone he SUGGESTS should be considered, but there is no inherent "right" in him choosing his successor. After all, HE did not build the church. The MEMBERS built the church and should have the final say. This almost pastor-worship in the Apostolic churches is disgusting. I for one am ECSTATIC to be out from underneath it.

aegsm76 03-16-2021 09:43 AM

Re: Sons Inheriting Churches from Fathers $$$
 
There is a theory in Apostolic circles that you show your reverence to God by showing reverence to your pastor.
While this is not a bad thing, it has sometimes led to pastor worship.
I am old enough to remember when the prominent UPCI Bible School taught that as a pastor, you should not have the best house/car/clothes in the church.
As it would hinder your ministry.

returnman 03-16-2021 10:55 AM

Re: Sons Inheriting Churches from Fathers $$$
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by loran adkins (Post 1601894)
Wow this whole thread sounds out of left field by left coast. I don't know personally Jessy Parker, but I do know very personally his brother Joe Parker. Both of them started a church with UPCI and both have left the UPCI for different reasons. The fact remains that one thing that is very wrong is that until just the last ten years both of the Parkers churches were not rich and most of the church finances were because the pastor worked and the tithe went into running the church and not into the pastors pocket.

I would go as far as to say that that is the case still today. And even if Jessie has been full time in ministry I would go as far as to say he is in no way rich. Yes he may live in a nice house but who paid for it him, with his tree cutting business or the church?

Regardless the pastor does have the right to put up anyone he wants as pastor to take over the church he spent to much time and money putting together.

I can appreciate your loyalty to whomever you serve under and also a man's labor should be recognized and rewarded but principles are either followed or not. Are we building earthly kingdoms or heavenly? The way some of this operates you'd very likely have these churches stay in single family control for 150 years.

returnman 03-16-2021 11:00 AM

Re: Sons Inheriting Churches from Fathers $$$
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by aegsm76 (Post 1601896)
There is a theory in Apostolic circles that you show your reverence to God by showing reverence to your pastor.
While this is not a bad thing, it has sometimes led to pastor worship.
I am old enough to remember when the prominent UPCI Bible School taught that as a pastor, you should not have the best house/car/clothes in the church.
As it would hinder your ministry.

J.T. Pugh preached a lesson series titled "Wisdom of the cross Principle"
It dealt a lot with the way Pastors and church leadership conduct themselves and the effects on the church body as a whole. He was a wise man.

Dordrecht 03-16-2021 06:44 PM

Re: Sons Inheriting Churches from Fathers $$$
 
Is there a board?

Lol, I know two UPC without a local board.

leftcoast1 03-16-2021 10:56 PM

Re: Sons Inheriting Churches from Fathers $$$
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by votivesoul (Post 1601838)
Brethren, please change the course of this thread to more generically discuss the merits or lack thereof regarding pastoral nepotism, and leave off the specifics and personal names of the church in question, or I will lock the thread.

Please delete this thread. I think its run its course.

Originalist 03-17-2021 06:49 AM

Re: Sons Inheriting Churches from Fathers $$$
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by leftcoast1 (Post 1601904)
Please delete this thread. I think its run its course.


Why? Nepotism is a great topic. Specific names do not have to be mentioned.

aegsm76 03-17-2021 08:52 AM

Re: Sons Inheriting Churches from Fathers $$$
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Originalist (Post 1601907)
Why? Nepotism is a great topic. Specific names do not have to be mentioned.

Agreed.
I know of many men who I would consider great men of God, who have blinders on when dealing with their own family.
I do wonder, where is Paul or Nathan who will speak the word of the Lord to them?

Tithesmeister 03-17-2021 11:41 AM

Re: Sons Inheriting Churches from Fathers $$$
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by leftcoast1 (Post 1601904)
Please delete this thread. I think its run its course.

What?!

Brother,

That ship has sailed.

The horse is out of the barn.

You have opened Pandoraí Box.

You let the genie out of the bottle.

The bell is rung.

Now we have to go on for one hundred and fifty pages and consider all the possibilities. It is our obligation and responsibility. And we will be diligent in our pursuit of truth and justice.

Gather the tar and feathers, just in case theyíre needed.

votivesoul 03-17-2021 11:03 PM

Re: Sons Inheriting Churches from Fathers $$$
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by leftcoast1 (Post 1601904)
Please delete this thread. I think its run its course.

I didn't threaten to delete it, just lock it. I think the conversation has moved away from the specifics well enough to leave it alone and allow it to continue under the proviso I gave earlier.

As a rule, I don't tend to delete threads unless they are spam.

leftcoast1 03-17-2021 11:30 PM

Re: Sons Inheriting Churches from Fathers $$$
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by aegsm76 (Post 1601909)
Agreed.
I know of many men who I would consider great men of God, who have blinders on when dealing with their own family.
I do wonder, where is Paul or Nathan who will speak the word of the Lord to them?

Many of the right wingers put pastors on such a high pedestal to where the individual saints will not have a word to say for themselves in judgement. Only the pastor will "give an account."

There was a fairly recent sermon preached by a now unnamed individual who said "there is a not a place in the Bible where the people chose their pastor."

WHOA!

This is a strange doctrine even within the UPCI ranks.

Some of these folks will point to the election of Judas' replacement and how the apostilles cast lots. This pretty much confirms that other Bishops will vote among themselves for the pastoral replacement at another church?

When did the church become the House of Representatives to where the average person does not have a voice? The is the primary issue with unlearned men joining the clergy and correlates to my original point. Various offshoots of the UPCI have become a good ole boys club void of true leadership.

Praxeas 03-18-2021 01:07 AM

Re: Sons Inheriting Churches from Fathers $$$
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TJJJ (Post 1601765)
And how dare Jess give it to someone else and not you! C'mon man, if it's not of God then it won't matter, if God is in it then it will. Period. That church has a board of elders who had to approve it, apparently they didn't see it like you. Roll on and find another place to Pastor so you can do the same thing when you retire.

Many "boards" in Pentecostal churches are nothing but yes men who do as the Pastor tells them

Nicodemus1968 03-18-2021 09:16 AM

Re: Sons Inheriting Churches from Fathers $$$
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by leftcoast1 (Post 1601916)
Many of the right wingers put pastors on such a high pedestal to where the individual saints will not have a word to say for themselves in judgement. Only the pastor will "give an account."

There was a fairly recent sermon preached by a now unnamed individual who said "there is a not a place in the Bible where the people chose their pastor."

WHOA!

This is a strange doctrine even within the UPCI ranks.

Some of these folks will point to the election of Judas' replacement and how the apostilles cast lots. This pretty much confirms that other Bishops will vote among themselves for the pastoral replacement at another church?

When did the church become the House of Representatives to where the average person does not have a voice? The is the primary issue with unlearned men joining the clergy and correlates to my original point. Various offshoots of the UPCI have become a good ole boys club void of true leadership.

Acts 1:23-26
[23] And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.
[24] And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men , shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,
[25] That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.
[26] And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.


Who are the ďtheyĒ in this portion of scripture?

Was it everyone in the upper room? I personally donít believe so. I believe it was the apostles. This is a good reference that each Pastor should hold dear when he is coming to the end of his Pastorship.

aegsm76 03-18-2021 09:53 AM

Re: Sons Inheriting Churches from Fathers $$$
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by leftcoast1 (Post 1601916)
Many of the right wingers put pastors on such a high pedestal to where the individual saints will not have a word to say for themselves in judgement. Only the pastor will "give an account."

There was a fairly recent sermon preached by a now unnamed individual who said "there is a not a place in the Bible where the people chose their pastor."

WHOA!

This is a strange doctrine even within the UPCI ranks.

Some of these folks will point to the election of Judas' replacement and how the apostilles cast lots. This pretty much confirms that other Bishops will vote among themselves for the pastoral replacement at another church?

When did the church become the House of Representatives to where the average person does not have a voice? The is the primary issue with unlearned men joining the clergy and correlates to my original point. Various offshoots of the UPCI have become a good ole boys club void of true leadership.

If you think it is just limited to right wing UPC/WPF/GOIB churches you need to expand your views.
Just look to any group and you will see this.
I have some past in the PAW and COGIC and believe me it is there as well.

leftcoast1 03-18-2021 11:07 AM

Re: Sons Inheriting Churches from Fathers $$$
 
I could see this happening in the COGIC and AMEC

Originalist 03-18-2021 12:18 PM

Re: Sons Inheriting Churches from Fathers $$$
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968 (Post 1601921)
Acts 1:23-26
[23] And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.
[24] And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men , shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,
[25] That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.
[26] And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.


Who are the ďtheyĒ in this portion of scripture?

Was it everyone in the upper room? I personally donít believe so. I believe it was the apostles. This is a good reference that each Pastor should hold dear when he is coming to the end of his Pastorship.

This was to replace an apostle, not to choose a pastor for a local church.

votivesoul 03-18-2021 08:30 PM

Re: Sons Inheriting Churches from Fathers $$$
 
Honestly, if an argument is going to be made against nepotism in the church, particularly against ministers raising up their sons to replace them after they are gone, I think some Scriptures needs to be looked at, namely these:

Philippians 2:19-22,

Quote:

19. But I trust in the Lord Jesus to send Timotheus shortly unto you, that I also may be of good comfort, when I know your state.
20. For I have no man likeminded, who will naturally care for your state.
21. For all seek their own, not the things which are Jesus Christ's.
22. But ye know the proof of him, that, as a son with the father, he hath served with me in the gospel.
Here, Paul acknowledges Timothy before the Philippians as someone who ministered with him as closely as if Timothy had been his own biological offspring, thus suggesting that if Timothy had indeed been born of Paul's flesh, and not just of the Spirit, Paul would have used Timothy in ministry in a way that suggests dads are expected to raise up their sons to work with them and perhaps even replace them after they are gone.

See also: 1 Timothy 1:2, 1 Timothy 1:18, 2 Timothy 1:2

Likewise, take a look at Titus:

Titus 1:4,

Quote:

4. To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour.
5. For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee...
Paul thought of Titus as his particular son. Again, not by biological descent, but through the Spirit. Yet, Paul, who raised and nurtured Titus in the things of the Spirit and the common faith of Christ, made use of him as a son, by sending him throughout the Mediterranean.

See also: 2 Corinthians 8:23

Do these verses then speak of nepotism? If not of biological offspring, but then perhaps of spiritual fellowship and ministry?

The people Paul entrusted the most to carry on after him once he was gone he considered his sons. He passed on to them the responsibility of his ministry.

Tithesmeister 03-18-2021 09:05 PM

Re: Sons Inheriting Churches from Fathers $$$
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by votivesoul (Post 1601927)
Honestly, if an argument is going to be made against nepotism in the church, particularly against ministers raising up their sons to replace them after they are gone, I think some Scriptures needs to be looked at, namely these:

Philippians 2:19-22,



Here, Paul acknowledges Timothy before the Philippians as someone who ministered with him as closely as if Timothy had been his own biological offspring, thus suggesting that if Timothy had indeed been born of Paul's flesh, and not just of the Spirit, Paul would have used Timothy in ministry in a way that suggests dads are expected to raise up their sons to work with them and perhaps even replace them after they are gone.

See also: 1 Timothy 1:2, 1 Timothy 1:18, 2 Timothy 1:2

Likewise, take a look at Titus:

Titus 1:4,



Paul thought of Titus as his particular son. Again, not by biological descent, but through the Spirit. Yet, Paul, who raised and nurtured Titus in the things of the Spirit and the common faith of Christ, made use of him as a son, by sending him throughout the Mediterranean.

See also: 2 Corinthians 8:23

Do these verses then speak of nepotism? If not of biological offspring, but then perhaps of spiritual fellowship and ministry?

The people Paul entrusted the most to carry on after him once he was gone he considered his sons. He passed on to them the responsibility of his ministry.

No brother. This is not nepotism. It is in fact, the opposite of nepotism.

Youíre way smarter than that.

votivesoul 03-18-2021 09:30 PM

Re: Sons Inheriting Churches from Fathers $$$
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister (Post 1601932)
No brother. This is not nepotism. It is in fact, the opposite of nepotism.

You’re way smarter than that.

I am not saying it is or it is not, but that those verses needed to be entered into the discussion. And please do not presume upon my intelligence! :D

However, I will say this:

Definitionally, this is nepotism:

From: https://www.thefreedictionary.com/nepotism

- favouritism shown to relatives or close friends by those with power or influence

Paul definitely showed favoritism to close friends, those he considered fellow laborers and sons in the Gospel. Just because they were not biological relatives of the flesh, doesn't mean nepotism wasn't at play.

Doesn't mean it was, either. I am leaving it up to the members to hash it out. I am merely bringing up what seems to be unconsidered issues. So, you are welcome to make the case, one way or the other.

leftcoast1 03-18-2021 11:04 PM

Re: Sons Inheriting Churches from Fathers $$$
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by votivesoul (Post 1601934)
I am not saying it is or it is not, but that those verses needed to be entered into the discussion. And please do not presume upon my intelligence! :D

However, I will say this:

Definitionally, this is nepotism:

From: https://www.thefreedictionary.com/nepotism

- favouritism shown to relatives or close friends by those with power or influence

Paul definitely showed favoritism to close friends, those he considered fellow laborers and sons in the Gospel. Just because they were not biological relatives of the flesh, doesn't mean nepotism wasn't at play.

Doesn't mean it was, either. I am leaving it up to the members to hash it out. I am merely bringing up what seems to be unconsidered issues. So, you are welcome to make the case, one way or the other.

In addition, just because Paul did it does not make it right.

votivesoul 03-19-2021 12:02 AM

Re: Sons Inheriting Churches from Fathers $$$
 
The issue of nepotism in and of itself is not a moral one. It becomes moral when unqualified and undeserving family and friends are chosen over and before other more qualified and deserving people, on account of the connection. But if the family member or friend is the person best suited for the task, it would not be wrong, in my opinion, to go that route.

For example, if someone from your assembly was moving to another state and was looking for church recommendations and it happened that the city they were heading to was pastored by say, your brother or a good friend from Bible college, would you not recommend that church over another one?

Parochial concern is normal and natural.

loran adkins 03-19-2021 07:50 AM

Re: Sons Inheriting Churches from Fathers $$$
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by returnman (Post 1601899)
I can appreciate your loyalty to whomever you serve under and also a man's labor should be recognized and rewarded but principles are either followed or not. Are we building earthly kingdoms or heavenly? The way some of this operates you'd very likely have these churches stay in single family control for 150 years.

First off I don't serve under anyone. And when you say family control, I think you go a little over board in your estimation. Even with the most controlling pastor, the saints have to believe in what they are told or they would leave. In my whole life I have seen many transfer of pastors and in all of them the former pastor had some say in who took the church. But ultimately the church family also had some say. This accusation of nepotism is unfounded It should not matter if a son takes over the work or in coming pastor, what should matter is that the work of God goes on without the most hitch.

I personally know of another pastor that built a very large church from the very beginning that left the first church to another and took another large church in a neighboring state. The fit seemed to be out of the will of God, yet about a year latter the man moved on because the church was behind the son in law of the former pastor.


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