Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968 (Post 1602174)

Look up the thread “Who was Harry Morse” and go to page 96. Scott P. and myself discussed the start up of the AMF.

Originally Posted by returnman (Post 1602175)

For many years and even into the 90's they where still bashing the UPC calling out specific names. I was part of a very conservative UPC church that fellow shipped with one of the ACI churches. No way would I have taken a visitor to one of their services to hear all that bashing.

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968 (Post 1602171)

AMF:
Apostolic Ministerial Fellowship

This group came into play in the 1960’s, ministers that were tired of the politics of the UPC. Ministers like Verbal Bean, C.R. Free, Murray Burr, formed the fellowship. In one of Bro. Burrs books he states his disappointment how the fellowship is now just a political organization.

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister (Post 1602179)

What is interesting is that M.B. ran for one of the UPCI district superintendents positions in Texas (I believe they have three or four?) and was not elected. He later wrote a paper or book criticizing the UPCI organization and got kicked out of the UPCI.

The matter of contention was not only about the structure of the administration of the UPCI and the sovereignty of the local church , it was also a fight about . . .




TITHES.

Imagine that.

Originally Posted by Nicodemus1968 (Post 1602181)

I did not know that.

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister (Post 1602179)

What is interesting is that M.B. ran for one of the UPCI district superintendents positions in Texas (I believe they have three or four?) and was not elected. He later wrote a paper or book criticizing the UPCI organization and got kicked out of the UPCI.

The matter of contention was not only about the structure of the administration of the UPCI and the sovereignty of the local church , it was also a fight about . . .




TITHES.

Imagine that.

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister (Post 1602182)

It’s in the book. I don’t remember the name but it’s something like “The Structure of the Church Government “ or something similar. Written by Murray Burr. I have the book, somewhere.

What is ironic is the reality of them fussing over tithes. They are both wrong, so it is easy to point out the faults and failures of the opposing views. But they don’t seem to ever think of their own position and the total lack of scriptural support for their own views.

Originally Posted by returnman (Post 1602183)

Sour grapes perhaps? Nah. I would have thought both camps would believe in 10% to the local ministry. I'm guessing the structure of ministers paying tithe to the org was the issue. Autonomy, call it what you want but like this original thread, it goes back to an eye on the money. There are many good men who get caught up in it. One in my past, last thing he did before leaving was clean out the tithe account leaving a zero balance to a church of about 50 at the time. Why? It belonged to him in his mind and according to the structure of the organization that he left by the way shortly afterwards.

Originally Posted by returnman (Post 1602183)

Sour grapes perhaps? Nah. I would have thought both camps would believe in 10% to the local ministry. I'm guessing the structure of ministers paying tithe to the org was the issue. Autonomy, call it what you want but like this original thread, it goes back to an eye on the money. There are many good men who get caught up in it. One in my past, last thing he did before leaving was clean out the tithe account leaving a zero balance to a church of about 50 at the time. Why? It belonged to him in his mind and according to the structure of the organization that he left by the way shortly afterwards.

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister (Post 1602185)

On point one you are right.

Point two? Right again. IIRC

Maybe some pastor in the UPCI could shed some light on the practice of tithing in the UPCI, specifically in regards to tithing to the organization from the local pastors.

Anyone?

Originally Posted by TakingDominion (Post 1602186)

Not in the UPC but I do know that the mothership does request that every Pastor send a tithe of the tithe to their local district. From what I have been told its more of a suggestion than a requirement and so very few actually do it.

Originally Posted by votivesoul (Post 1602111)

The more I think about what I've read in this thread, the more I realize none of this looks like the Church Jesus said He would build and indeed, began to build, in the Gospels, then in Acts.

Originally Posted by Esaias (Post 1602118)

:thumbsup
What's being described in this thread is a couple business models, not an ekklesia.

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister (Post 1602189)

Ain’t it so?



Yes, it is a business model. Or two. Sometimes a church starts a franchise, umm sorry, I meant to say a daughter work. If the business plan works , one church can have five or more franchises. And sometimes the CEOs (I mean pastors) argue with the competition about members moving etc.. I heard of one pastor who offered a discount on tithing to a wealthy member. He said if he moved to his church he would only have to pay five percent. (Volume discount?)

Maybe he was joking, but the family of the dear brother was thinking it was sincere.

Shouldn’t good customers get a discount? From good businesses?

Would it be better to receive five percent from a thousand? Or ten percent from fifty?

It’s the Sam Walton method of salvation!! Lower prices, more volume!
The mega-church model!!

Originally Posted by coksiw (Post 1602191)

No, that's corruption.