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-   -   The Remission is Different from Forgiveness Myth (http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=18356)

SDG 09-06-2008 05:11 PM

Re: The Remission is Different from Forgiveness My
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ev. Duane Williams (Post 584088)
Dan,

In many places throughout the Bible both Hebrew and Greek words have more than one meaning which would be nonsensical if the same English word was used for each. For example, the word "know" in KJV has two obviously different meanings. When Adam "knew" Eve, it was obviously different from "knowing" the Truth, no? When God "repented of the evil" He was about to do, you surely don't think He was about to engage in Satan's type of evil, do you? If I say the word "jam", am I talking about jelly, improvised music, paper stuck in a copier, or someone in a difficult situation?

Having said that, I haven't studied this issue out completely, so I must go into Berean mode on this one, but I'll get back to you.

No multiple meanings based on context here ...

Elder Blume ... hit this on the nose ....

It's a myth and you lose credibility keeping this notion.

You either decide to

1. accept forgiveness/remission happen at repentance
2. accept that forgiveness happens when one repents + is baptized

or

3. accept the first concept #1 and keep baptism as part of your baptismal regenerational model but not to cause forgiveness/remission of sin (as Elder Blume has).

Study it. Of course, doing so would be admitting believing a myth.

Ev. Duane Williams 09-06-2008 05:44 PM

Re: The Remission is Different from Forgiveness My
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Apocrypha (Post 584150)
oh, in that case lets begin the debate on why the KJV translators used Holiness instead of Sanctification, they are both the same exact greek word... but have different understandings in english.

With the exception of where the word Hagiosune (and i know that off the top of my head) is used, almost every other verse on NT holiness could be reworded as Santification... imagine the legalistic teaching that would demolish in the process :)

holiness is a state

sanctification is a process


thats a much more fun debate than repentence and remittance (welcome to AFF btw, please stay and debate... you may become a convert to grace along the way)

I agree 100% about Holiness. I've been a convert to Grace for some time now. Real Grace. Not greasy grace.

Ev. Duane Williams 09-06-2008 05:47 PM

Re: The Remission is Different from Forgiveness My
 
Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

SDG 09-06-2008 05:51 PM

Re: The Remission is Different from Forgiveness My
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ev. Duane Williams (Post 584181)
Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Hmmm ... are you in Berean mode or defend your institution mode?

Your 7-8 proof texts for baptismal regeneration have been amply refuted by many for generations and here also.

If you are going to quote scripture ... we all got a bible ... E.D.

If you have a point .... step up to the plate ... and watch for commas.

ronharvey 09-06-2008 06:01 PM

Re: The Remission is Different from Forgiveness My
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ev. Duane Williams (Post 584088)
Dan,

In many places throughout the Bible both Hebrew and Greek words have more than one meaning which would be nonsensical if the same English word was used for each. For example, the word "know" in KJV has two obviously different meanings. When Adam "knew" Eve, it was obviously different from "knowing" the Truth, no? When God "repented of the evil" He was about to do, you surely don't think He was about to engage in Satan's type of evil, do you? If I say the word "jam", am I talking about jelly, improvised music, paper stuck in a copier, or someone in a difficult situation?

Having said that, I haven't studied this issue out completely, so I must go into Berean mode on this one, but I'll get back to you.

In Greek, the words mean the same thing, no matter where they appear.

What changes is the APPLICATION of the word within the context it is used.

English convolutes language and communications. That is why it is considered the easiest to speak yet the hardest to understand.

Ron

Praxeas 09-06-2008 06:03 PM

Re: The Remission is Different from Forgiveness My
 
Did anyone read the article by Daniel Segraves?

SDG 09-06-2008 06:04 PM

Re: The Remission is Different from Forgiveness My
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas (Post 584187)
Did anyone read the article by Daniel Segraves?

No. Not really.

Can you give us the cliff notes. Please summarize

Ev. Duane Williams 09-06-2008 06:19 PM

Re: The Remission is Different from Forgiveness My
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea (Post 584182)
Hmmm ... are you in Berean mode or defend your institution mode?

Your 7-8 proof texts for baptismal regeneration have been amply refuted by many for generations and here also.

If you are going to quote scripture ... we all got a bible ... E.D.

If you have a point .... step up to the plate ... and watch for commas.

I simply quote a Scripture and send you into a frenzy? Forgive my hillbilly ignorance and inferior intellect compared with your otherworldly intelligence, but how do you "refute" this verse? Let me guess, there's another Greek lesson coming. Man, why couldn't you have been there to show those ignorant and unlearned translators of the KJV how to read Greek? Then we'd have an accurate Bible. Oh well, I guess we'll just keep depending on you to tell us what the Scriptures really say.

SDG 09-06-2008 06:20 PM

Re: The Remission is Different from Forgiveness My
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ev. Duane Williams (Post 584195)
I simply quote a Scripture and send you into a frenzy? Forgive my hillbilly ignorance and inferior intellect compared with your otherworldly intelligence, but how do you "refute" this verse?

Don't have to refute God's Word ... it is what it is ... not what you think it says.

Your baptismal regenerationist interpretation is not the only plausible one.

Still waiting to know why you quoted it. What does it mean to you, E.D.?

ronharvey 09-06-2008 06:22 PM

Re: The Remission is Different from Forgiveness My
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ev. Duane Williams (Post 584195)
I simply quote a Scripture and send you into a frenzy? Forgive my hillbilly ignorance and inferior intellect compared with your otherworldly intelligence, but how do you "refute" this verse? Let me guess, there's another Greek lesson coming. man, why couldn't you have been there to show those ignorant and unlearned translators of the KJV how to read Greek?

Frenzy? Is that what all this stuff on the floor is from?

Hand me the dust pan, I'll clean it up again....

Ron


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