Apostolic Friends Forum

Apostolic Friends Forum (https://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/index.php)
-   Fellowship Hall (https://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=7)
-   -   Trinitarians Who Baptize in Jesus Name (https://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=54430)

mfblume 04-28-2021 04:00 PM

Re: Trinitarians Who Baptize in Jesus Name
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by seguidordejesus (Post 1602643)
I have faith that the same church fathers who learned from the apostles themselves, and who compiled the scriptures we have today, reached a consensus as to the practices that the whole church should participate in.

But strictly speaking, to answer your question, I doubt that Jesus Himself and the Apostles themselves, would have prayed to Mary (because she wasn't dead) or prayed to dead saints (because they weren't dead yet). There is some evidence of icons in ancient Judaism, so I can't answer that except to say maybe.

But none of those things are in the written word. IN fact, the bible speaks as though it is futile to pray to saints when it asks this question...

Job 5:1.. Call now, if there be any that will answer thee; and to which of the saints wilt thou turn?



All are equally dependent on God, and are not worthy to receive prayer.

seguidordejesus 04-29-2021 06:58 AM

Re: Trinitarians Who Baptize in Jesus Name
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume (Post 1602644)
But none of those things are in the written word. IN fact, the bible speaks as though it is futile to pray to saints when it asks this question...

Job 5:1.. Call now, if there be any that will answer thee; and to which of the saints wilt thou turn?



All are equally dependent on God, and are not worthy to receive prayer.

Two things here: Church Tradition and definition of "prayer". Don't really have time to get into either as I'm sure you are convinced, but so was I :)

1 God 04-29-2021 01:13 PM

Re: Trinitarians Who Baptize in Jesus Name
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume (Post 1602636)
You. Do you know what unitarianism means, because it's evident that you don't know what catholic means? Now, please answer the question I posed in the post you're responding to.

Unitarians believe and teach Jesus was not God, nor shall he ever be God. Incarnationists teach Jesus was God in the ovaries/womb(flesh). The Apostles taught Jesus was made God after his God raised him from the dead VIA the Col 2:9 effect on his body. At that point, Jesus was made a Divinity filled quickening human spirit(AKA God). Jesus and the Apostles spoke of Jesus' God often, which incarnationists disagree and mentally(subconsciously) reinterpret these passages when they read them.

Originalist 04-29-2021 02:37 PM

Re: Trinitarians Who Baptize in Jesus Name
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 1 God (Post 1602665)
Unitarians believe and teach Jesus was not God, nor shall he ever be God. Incarnationists teach Jesus was God in the ovaries/womb(flesh). The Apostles taught Jesus was made God after his God raised him from the dead VIA the Col 2:9 effect on his body. At that point, Jesus was made a Divinity filled quickening human spirit(AKA God). Jesus and the Apostles spoke of Jesus' God often, which incarnationists disagree and mentally(subconsciously) reinterpret these passages when they read them.

Shane, the Apostles taught no such thing. They plainly saw the fullness of the Godhead alreay residing in him bodily on the mount of tranfiguration.

Esaias 04-29-2021 03:56 PM

Re: Trinitarians Who Baptize in Jesus Name
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by seguidordejesus (Post 1602643)
I have faith that the same church fathers who learned from the apostles themselves, and who compiled the scriptures we have today, reached a consensus as to the practices that the whole church should participate in.

But strictly speaking, to answer your question, I doubt that Jesus Himself and the Apostles themselves, would have prayed to Mary (because she wasn't dead) or prayed to dead saints (because they weren't dead yet). There is some evidence of icons in ancient Judaism, so I can't answer that except to say maybe.

I was going to ask another question but I see you already stated you don't have time for it.

seguidordejesus 04-29-2021 04:25 PM

Re: Trinitarians Who Baptize in Jesus Name
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias (Post 1602668)
I was going to ask another question but I see you already stated you don't have time for it.

:heeheehee

We all know both sides of the discussion, what's the point? Lol

Esaias 04-29-2021 09:15 PM

Re: Trinitarians Who Baptize in Jesus Name
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by seguidordejesus (Post 1602671)
:heeheehee

We all know both sides of the discussion, what's the point? Lol

I'm not interested in debating EO faith and practice. I was just asking for the reasoning, what your thoughts on the subject were, just for my own understanding.

At least you didn't go Novus Ordo lol.

Esaias 04-30-2021 06:58 PM

Re: Trinitarians Who Baptize in Jesus Name
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Originalist (Post 1602666)
Shane, the Apostles taught no such thing. They plainly saw the fullness of the Godhead alreay residing in him bodily on the mount of tranfiguration.

?

They saw resurrection glory (which is one of the reasons why Moses and Elijah were present as well).

mont.preterist 04-30-2021 09:13 PM

Re: Trinitarians Who Baptize in Jesus Name
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by seguidordejesus (Post 1602468)
Actually, that is the Eastern Orthodox creed (of which I am now a member) - the Catholics added the Filioque later on.

My friend, it has been years since we corresponded.

What happened that you would go that direction? The last we spoke you were either in south america or UAE teaching ESL classes. What in the world happened?

PM if you want to.

mfblume 04-30-2021 10:12 PM

Re: Trinitarians Who Baptize in Jesus Name
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by seguidordejesus (Post 1602655)
Two things here: Church Tradition and definition of "prayer". Don't really have time to get into either as I'm sure you are convinced, but so was I :)

When people refer to tradition, they think that Jesus words about Spirit guiding us into all truth as well as that we would believe on him through his disciples' words, are referring to Generations after the apostles, as though there's some kind of succession they inherited it. But Jesus was strictly talking about those 12. The foundation-layers were those 12, which is why the apostles' names are on the foundation of the New Jerusalem and there's not more than 12 of them. Paul said that he was faithful to give the full counsel of God. So, doctrines like the Trinity and everything else that, for example, you would believe in, that aren't in the Bible, just aren't from God.

I know you don't want to debate because it's assumed everybody knows both sides. But I'm just thinking you may not have heard that response before.

mfblume 04-30-2021 10:15 PM

Re: Trinitarians Who Baptize in Jesus Name
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 1 God (Post 1602665)
Unitarians believe and teach Jesus was not God, nor shall he ever be God. Incarnationists teach Jesus was God in the ovaries/womb(flesh). The Apostles taught Jesus was made God after his God raised him from the dead VIA the Col 2:9 effect on his body. At that point, Jesus was made a Divinity filled quickening human spirit(AKA God). Jesus and the Apostles spoke of Jesus' God often, which incarnationists disagree and mentally(subconsciously) reinterpret these passages when they read them.

So you repeat the Devil's lie to Eve that man shall be God. (Just like Sean.)

(Sean, is your wife's name Rene, and you get her to type whenever you're asked if it's Sean, as if that is avoiding lying. Lol?)

You're Adoptionist, then. Not oneness.

1 God 05-01-2021 07:18 AM

Re: Trinitarians Who Baptize in Jesus Name
 
My name is Rene. Anyway, you folks teach God will be like man. God became man, God took on humanity, God has a human nature, God humbled Himself to wicked man and devils, God is 100% man, etc. The devil works through the RCC quite well sir.

seguidordejesus 05-01-2021 10:39 AM

Re: Trinitarians Who Baptize in Jesus Name
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mont.preterist (Post 1602699)
My friend, it has been years since we corresponded.

What happened that you would go that direction? The last we spoke you were either in south america or UAE teaching ESL classes. What in the world happened?

PM if you want to.

Perhaps you're under a different name? Your username isn't ringing a bell but perhaps it's just been awhile.

seguidordejesus 05-01-2021 10:42 AM

Re: Trinitarians Who Baptize in Jesus Name
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume (Post 1602700)
When people refer to tradition, they think that Jesus words about Spirit guiding us into all truth as well as that we would believe on him through his disciples' words, are referring to Generations after the apostles, as though there's some kind of succession they inherited it. But Jesus was strictly talking about those 12. The foundation-layers were those 12, which is why the apostles' names are on the foundation of the New Jerusalem and there's not more than 12 of them. Paul said that he was faithful to give the full counsel of God. So, doctrines like the Trinity and everything else that, for example, you would believe in, that aren't in the Bible, just aren't from God.

I know you don't want to debate because it's assumed everybody knows both sides. But I'm just thinking you may not have heard that response before.

I guess those Apostles were pretty bad at teaching then but I haven't heard that precise explanation.

And I would disagree that the Trinity is not in the Bible, obviously, but thanks for the food for thought.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:38 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.