Lets Get Ready to RuMbLE!! HANEY Vs. URSHAN!!!
 

I was thinking after reading several posts and threads and I don't believe there has been a discussion on the differences between the two GSs of our generation. Brother Urshan held the scepter during some of the most difinitive times of the UPC, while Brother Haney is still trying to define his administration and legacy.

I am wondering what does/did Urshan have that Haney does not and vice versa.

I know for a fact that during the Urshan administration, the UPC had definition and objectivity, perhaps fueled by the 1992 AS, but nevertheless, I think after he passed from the scene, that is when the lines of the UPC became very fuzzy.

...and I am only sitting watching and listening for things from the peanut gallery.

I think a definition here goes beyond a comparison between the two men, I believe it carries the weight of the state of the organization as well.

Yes, I agree...good thread starter, Carp...

When I return from work tonight, this thread should be a wealth of great insight...

Carp,

You raise some good points, but I don't think there is any way to fairly compare Urshan and Haney, and more than you can compare Sammy Sosa to The Babe.

It's a different game.

Nathaniel Urshan was definitely a man with charisma and clout, a leader with a personality as big as a Mack truck.

He had a degree of influence that I doubt we will ever see replicated in a General Superintendent.

Some of this is because of the change in our society, and some of it is because we had a man like him for so long. :)

Leadership seems to run in cycles. People usually want something different than what they have had.

One of the big problems I see is exactly what you named--lack of clear direction and definition.

This isn't altogether Brother Haney's fault, either.

I feel that the the UPC started to lose its focus and definition and had started to flounder a bit before the AS and definitely before Bro. Haney became GS. Bro. Urshan for me pretty much defines the UPC because he became GS just a year or 2 after we started ministry.

I remember making the statement several times during the last several years we were in the UPC that I felt the organization was like a big ship kind of floundering around in the ocean with no real direction or purpose. That was my feeling anyhow.

I think the distinctions between Bro. Haney and Bro. Urshan - the personalities and leadership styles are fairly obvious although I never knew Bro. Haney as well as Bro. Urshan. Definitely Bro.Urshan had more charisma and I think definitely more confidence as well.

The weight of personality, strong convictions, and remarkable minds and leadership skills maked the difference between the two.

Nathaniel Urshan was a colorful character seen often in his rhetoric, dress (loved those colorful shoes) and the emphasis that he placed upon his convictions. His ability to garner consensus was unlike any other, mostly due to his excellent use of personality and history. Very often, in board meetings and conferences and other official settings, he would lecture his listeners in history of the Apostolic movement, establishing with the Word his conviction for the thing that he sought consensus. His weight of personality ususally won out.

I don't believe that Bro Haney has learned this technique as well as the Old battle hardened pro whose immediate ancestry predated Azusa Street in the same fashion that Bro Haney's did through Clyde Haney.

There is also a marked difference in the two men's experiences that molded them for the office that they occupy/occupied. Urshan was tested early as a young man when he assumed the pastorate of Calvary Tab, by his predecessor, Raymond Hoekstra. Long story there. Needless to say, he was molded in the furnace of affliction that well equipped him for leadership through tried and tested principles.

Both men traveled widely and spoke in many great gatherings before great congregations but he never appeared as long, often or before the many great gatherings that would have afforded him the notoriety and acceptance that Urshan gained over the many years. So, going into office, Urshan was the heavy weight from the start, both in approval, and in force of personality...loved those colorful shoes, especially the white ones. To me, those shoes reflected an inward flare of personality that was seen by everyone that knew him.

Most great leaders have a "stick" either knowingly or unknowingly. In the case of Urshan, that stick was his flash of personality clothed with humility and anointing. In Haney, we have a much milder personality, (though greatly anointed) which force does not command the type leadership, inspiration of imagination and consensus building as did the Persian.

Bro. Haney in as fine of a man as can be found anywhere but his test is yet ahead of him. His leadership ability, his consensus building and inspiration of the UPCI psyche is just ahead, in the coming great test. He is yet to be proven. His legacy will rise or fall on the events of the immediate future. If there is fire in his belly as was so great in the Persian's, he will rise to the challenge.

This is no time for the bland uniformity of the penguin look alike sameness. He must distinguish himself by the anointing of the Holy Ghost manifested in his own human character that is unique to HIM alone.

It is yet to be seen.

I'm telling Chan.

He doesn't believe in personalities.

The huge difference that I see from where I am standing is,

Bro. Haney has no Jean Urshan for a wife!!!!!

Simply... Urshan had presence and charisma. He was the UPCI.

Haney never defined himself ... he's simply the headliner at big events.

I think it's much to early to try to compare the two....
Let Bro. Haney preside 20+ years then define them..

But we all know that won't happen...

don't you think this statement is a bit disrespectful???